Good day everyone,

I came on here a few weeks ago to get my experiencing started. I had recently completed an extraction and also had some other goodies in my stash that I had not tried at all yet. I had experienced DMT twice prior to joining the forum here and ever since then I had been fascinated with it. I was also scared of it, because the second time I tried it it went pretty bad but that's a different story.

So a few weeks ago I started experimenting first with smoked DMT and then later with oral DMT and syrian rue seeds. I've also tried LSD once in this time.

I won't bore you with trip reports, especially since it was nothing I could put into words that caused me to write this. Rather the things that are beyond words, colors and comprehendible concepts were what really got me.

I have come to the conclusion that the DMT experience is like a process of transformation - something the alchemists used to do - transform led into gold. DMT is the catalyst for this process, an internal process of transforming led - a poisonous and heavy metal with little value - into gold - a valuable and brilliant metal that alchemically is related to the sun or sunlight. On a spiritual level we transform our venomous baggage into brilliant light and valuable resources.

DMT is this. DMT helps us experience a consciousness that is beyond the regular one. If one takes for example the four elements, water, fire, air and earth as the scope of regular consciousness, the fifth element is the DMT experience. The quintessence. DMT is the philosopher's stone, it is the true medicine.

I believe this experience is important for us. I won't say that DMT can save the world, but rather DMT can save us from it. I have been thinking over these past weeks how much some people really need this experience. But how many of them are actualy willing to try it? AFter all it's illegal and a "drug".

I know for example that my brother and his wife would profit from experiencing it a lot. They are sort of stuck in their own development and I just know I could jump-start their growth and really get them into a better state so they could fully enjoy life. If they were to take DMT.

So I've been thinkning... what is the best method to administer DMT without them realizing it? I know they will say no, if I offer, but once they have experienced it I know they would understand. I know with LSD it's more simple, but I believe the true transformation lies in DMT. It makes sense somehow... it's like a secret key to unlock our potential and it's hidden in all kinds of places, and to remind us of this, it's even encoded in our own organisms...

I've been thinking, makng an extraction of rue-seeds and then mixing both the DMT and the harmalas into some drink. What kind of drink would mask the taste the best? Obviously I'd be like a sitter for them after they had ingested it. What else should I consider?

Are you nuts???




^^^^^

Your crazy you cant do that to someone, its like rape or assualt its morally wrong you cant force your views on others, or even worse force drugs on others without their knowledge as cyb said your nuts for thinking that. I understand when you first discover dmt you think everyone has to try it but you grow out of that and even at that you should never spike someone its sick and wrong so get rid of that idea.

Spiking people without their knowledge is a big no no. What works for one person may not work for another, in fact it may have long reaching detrimental effects (with the emphasis on the mental) , if you don"t see this then you are naive. Sort it out!

This is a VERY bad idea. Dosing some unknowingly and unwillingly completely disprespects not only them and yourself, but the experience itself. It's a slap in the face to a sacrament such as this. If someone's not ready..they're not ready.. plain and simple.

It's better to properly educate the peoiple involved, "if" they're interested in having an experience like this, and let them take their own time to decide if their willing to experience something like DMT.

DMT WILL ALWAYS BE THERE, IT'S NOT GOING ANYWHERE.

tat

I honestly think we should have a zero tolerance policy for people talking of dosing others without their consent.
CosmicAlchemist you are repulsive and if I had the power I'd ban you for you this post.

How can you even fathom dosing someone without their consent?
Seriously you have a lot of growing up to do and are clearly not worthy of having this material.

You do yourself, your friends, and the entire psychedelic community a huge diservice.

^

All that will happen is they will start to feel the effects and freak and have a horrible time
They will never want to do it after that.

Bad idea man....

i've been dosed with it 3 times without my consent, being passed a pipe that had "weed" in it.

I knew instantly what was up but was generally very uncomfortable, though forgiving because the person who did this just didn't understand and they do not get visuals, just a body sensation from it, so for them it is far less strong.

An acquaintance was once given some, and had never tried it, without being told and his experience was horrible, he thought he was poisoned and was going to die, needless to say years after this when we met and I offered him some he refused it and said he would never try it because of that experience.

I don't think everyone gets the same "benefits" from it, even if it was ok to dose people without them knowing that doesn't mean it is going to be good for them. It is clearly not for everyone.

Oh boy.. That would be very naughty.

You are playing games with other peoples lives.

What if they have an adverse reaction? Would you be able to live with a clear conscious?

What if they took contra-indicated meds?

I bet the spice is going to kick your ass sooner than you think...

Cosmicalchemist, I believe you need a good poke in the eye.

This is not acceptable behaviour. Get a grip.

This line of thinking is where you crossed the line for me and I voted against your promotion.

To explain, this idea that you are fit to judge their development, that somehow you could "jump start" growth and get them to a "better" state etc... just the fact that you would think that leads me to believe that you are a terrible judge of human development and interest. I could be wrong, no doubt there, but in my experience people who think they are good are reading, judging or knowing people in general are dead wrong and are the worse judges of character and development there are. We all do it to some degree, that is unavoidable, but when someone makes a call for someone else such as you have done, then a line has been crossed that is in my ignorant mind; immoral.

That you would even presume and state what you did makes me strongly question that you got any real benefit from using DMT. You seem like a religious fanatic, a catholic trying to enlighten the heathen natives by forcing your beliefs upon them without them having a choice. I think of that kind of attitude as psychedelic fascism and while you are certainly going to find peers online (try the Nook)to reinforce those views and pat you on the back for them I won't do that. If you do join the Nook, don't tell them about wanting to dose others without their consent, even there that is looked down on, but the judgement claims and attitude I am objecting to is widespread there and you will find a lot of people who share that view.

Wow, ok ok. I guess I didn't consider the whole thing through. I mean I know my brother and his wife very well. We are very close, I know they are not taking meds that could harm them in that sense, but I see there is more to it than just this. I was given a substance once mixed with aya that I didn't consent to ingesting and had a bad time. I thought it was the substance's fault, but perhaps it's more than just that. I don't know. I just feel helpless thinking that something so important, an experience so potent and promising, is out of reach of so many people and especially the people I love, that I'm willing to take extreme measures. But I guess this is not the way. I don't want to be a psychedelic fascist, nor do I want to hurt anyone. I want to give people a chance to overcome themselves, like I have been given the chance.

There is something horribly wrong with the idea of this experience being out of reach of many and frowned upon by even more. Is it wrong to want to share the magic? Is it wrong to believe that something could cause positive change? Why not this?

I see what you guys are saying. I see there is truth in them and yet it frustrates me beyond belief. How can I accept it? How can I accept the fact that I have this magic potion that opens up endless doors in your being and gives endless possibilities, and I can't give it to the people who could profit from them.

I realize that judging someone's development might seem like somethign very pretentious, and knowing what's good for them even more so. I'm not saying it would be teh solution to all their problems... but it would be... a start. How can I continue knowing that I am not allowed to open their eyes?

Why must it be so difficult?

Dude / dudette, please.

Just as I couldn't care less about people trying to get me to convert to their religion, kidnapping me and forcing me to join their 'church' or similar structure wouldn't make me appreciate it anymore than they might hope

I don't know, this just seems extremely irresponsible to do.

We can't stop you from doing 'what you gotta do' to spread 'enlightenment' but if you do it please don't come and post here.. Lol

I haven't been here for too long but I have NEVER seen a post like this before.

It aint cool, and to be honest, if you did that to me, when I came down from the journey, wether it was breathtakingly profound or nightmarishly unbearable, you better run far far away.

We're not talking about a little falsely offered cigarette with cannabis in it

Of course there's nothing wrong with this. I think most, if not all of us agree that it's a shame that something with such a powerful capacity to do good in our world is illegal and stigmatized. There's just a big difference between sharing the experience and forcing it on others. I encourage people to take psychedelic drugs, but I don't think poorly of them or try and antagonize them if they refuse. I deliver the same amount of respect that I expect from them. How are we to ask for respect in our decisions from others if we don't respect theirs?

I like that Leary quotation. It goes both ways. If we expect to be allowed to alter our consciousness, we should respect others' decisions not to.

CosmicAlchemist,

As the other posters have made quite clear, dosing other people without their consent is a very bad idea. It is very rare that these things result in anything other than terrifying experiences for the implicated and can leave mental scars that they and you would have to live with thereafter.

While it can be frustrating thinking one has the medicine to cure great ills and suffering, but cannot give it to even our loved ones without them asking... think again. This is not asprin or sugar we are talking about. It is powerful and perhaps the thing that makes it a transformative and positive experience is the fact that we are willing to transform. If we are not willing and don't even now that we should be (because we were dosed unknowingly) things could go terribly wrong.

So what do we do with this knowledge? What do we do to stop the frustration? First of all sit back and conteplate a bit. It looks like you have quite a bit of integration to do yourself. Even if your ideas and concepts work for you, that doesn't mean they are the ultimate truth. It doesn't mean that people will see what you see in them, nor that they are even looking for the same experience. Also consider the following:

Using your ideas of alchemy, why do you think they left the messages so cryptic? Why did they talk about converting lead into gold and describe chemical reactions using all kinds of real elements etc. rather than talking about spiritual transformations directly? Perhaps the knowledge they found could not be transmitted in this sense. Perhaps these things don't work if you are smacked in the face with them. Perhaps the experience alone is not even enough to provoke the effects you believe are so important. Perhaps there is much more subtlety to the whole thing than you believe. Perhaps you have to be seeking to find.

Showing someone the answer to a geometrical problem for example is not a very exciting experience for them, while if they follow the entire process of getting there it can be quite elegant and fascinating. If they do it themselves it can be rewarding and teach them something. But if they are shown the answer without even knowing the question and nothing else - what good would it do them?

Come back and talk to us once you've been Hyperslapped to hell and back...I'm betting your perspective will have altered somewhat...


Easily...

bad idea

also i would advice you to look at your avatar image for better understanding of the situation

Dmt is not a magic potion. Dmt hasn't enlightened me or changed me and if i was to think that it had i would be a little worried.

Ive had some amazing memorable experiences with dmt but ive also had some quite horrifying epiphanies that could have scared me senseless if i wasn't experienced and prepared for anything.

For you to talk of dosing people with dmt without their knowledge (ive skimmed this thread, haven't read it all) is totally irresponsible and if i was a mod i would give you a holiday from the nexus for a couple of weeks for your complete misunderstanding of what dmt actually is and what it is capable of. To call dmt a magic potion is ridiculous imho.