hey guys

this is already kind of been handled, but the question i had from before was never really answered or addressed

back a couple weeks ago i got into a discussion on the chat that seemed to have gotten filtered up to traveler.

it is about the weight and potency of dmt fumarate vs dmt feeebase.

now it was already fixed (kind of) back on the 19th last month, but the question was never answered.

here is the confusing part that was deleted:

"It [dmt furmate] is 76% as potent as freebase DMT, so you’ll need 31% more to achieve the same effectiveness. This means a 20 mg dose of freebase DMT is equivalent to 26 mg of DMT fumarate (requiring 31% more)."


now its math time

________________________________________________

here are the weights:

freebase dmt: 188.269
fumaric acid: 116.07

2dmt+1furmate:492.608

now first possible equation

116.07 / 492.608 = 23.56%

this would seem to substantiate the idea that dmt furmate is 76.44%.

so where does the 31% come from?

here is the other way to calculate this

116.07 (weight of one fumaric acid) / 376.538 (weight of two freebase dmt)

= 30.82%

if the latter is the case then that means that it is 69.17% as powerful.

this threw me for a huge loop a while back, both of these equations were used to make the statement above.

here is the final kicker, the 20mg to 26mg at the end,

20mg * 1.3082 (30.82%) = 26.164mg,

but if you divide it

20mg / 26mg = 76.44%,

and now you wind right back up at the first number.

___________________________________________


now ill give you that 7.27% is not a large amount, but this confused and scared the hell out of me when it was noticed post nomming.

im not poking at anyone here, i just want to know which one it is for future reference, and hopefully to get it back on the page with the correct numbers.

i may be completely wrong here (and warn me if i am), but i think the latter equation is correct and that dmt fumarate is 69.17% as powerful as freebase, thus you need an additional 30.82%.

so i dont know how to proceed from here but wanted to get this out since it never was really answered.

thank you everyone.

I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve but I think the initial calculation is fine:

100 / 76 = 1.31

So yea that's where the 31% comes from.

if something is 76% less powerful you need 24% more

if something is 69% less powerful you need 31% more.

its a 7% difference which although insignificant to some scared the heck out of me at one point not that long ago in my life and when going back to look at the wiki today and realizing it never was fully addressed i felt compelled to poke at the math

if something is 76% as powerful you need 31% more not 24% more:

say you have 100x that is 76% the potency of 100y:

1) 100x = 76y
2) 100x / 76 = y
3) 1.31x = y

like i said i might be completely wrong on this.

i have tried to put this up as logically as i could, might very well be off base, but i hope at least you can see how someone could confuse these things.

if it was 76% as powerful then

20mg * 1.2356 (23.56%) 24.71mg

my idea is that if dmt furmate is 76% less powerful you would need to only use 24.71mg, not 26.16mg.

like i said i dont know for sure but i want to ask about it anyway.

Let me give you another example:

Lets say you have 500ml of water and lets say that water is 50% as heavy as gasoline.

Also lets assume that Gasoline weights 1gram per ml, with that reasoning you will have that 1ml of water weights 0.5 grams beacause it's 50% the weight of gasoline.

So how much water would you need to have the same weight as 1000ml of gasoline?

1000ml gas = 1000 grams

If we use your reasoning, you would say: so water is 50% as heavy, so you need 50% more water to get to 100% !

so you would need:

1000ml + 1000ml(50%) = 1000ml + 500ml = 1500ml water

1500ml water (0.5grams) = 750grams.

You are short by 250 grams...

The right solution would be:

1000ml water = 500ml gasoline
1000/500 = 2

You Need 200% the amount of water for it to have the same weight as the other substance... so you need 100% more, not 50%...

I removed that part of the wiki you are quoting since, when taken orally, DMT-fumarate is stronger than DMT freebase because it is faster absorbed which makes a higher availability in the body.

The calculation that was on the wiki is correct.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

Untrue.

"If something is 50% less powerful" you need 200%.

If something is 99% less powerful you need...10000%.

Grade 8 math goes here:

1/0.5 = 2 = 200%

1/.01 = 100 = 10000%

From the chat:




Kind regards,

The Traveler

ok well thank you for answering and reassuring me, this was something that threw me for a loop and i wasnt sure if i was being bonkers about it or if i had a legitament reason to be bonkers.

never the less thank you everyone

sorry Im an ass when drunk... I should refrain from posting when not sober.