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Serotonin Health Mood and What it Might Mean to You and Me Options
 
Mustelid
#1 Posted : 3/9/2013 7:59:06 AM

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First of all, I would like to point out that I am a pine-marten and in no way a medical professional. I would be very happy if anyone benefited from this advise, but if you have access to a doctor, please discuss things like daily 5-htp with them. It may be an herb commonly available, but we should all know that legal and herbal doesn't mean without consequence!

Depression and anxiety are often considered a direct consequence of the brain's serotonin levels. Prescription SSRIs often being the first thing prescribed for major depression. As well as these issues, my admittedly non-expert research seems to have found some evidence that fibromyalgia, chronic-fatigue, and cluster and migraine headaches are also linked with the serotonin / 5ht system.

I post this because I have a diagnosis of major depression and had a lifetime of migraines sometimes evolving into the stabbing pain that cluster sufferers speak of. And I have friends with fibromyalgia, and chronic-fatigue syndrome and we have had some benefit from some of the following things.

For me, the SSRIs took the edge off of the depression, and I felt somehow that serotonin was key for everything else as well. SSRIs work by keeping your brain from 'recycling' old serotonin, keeping the level higher, the way a running sink would have higher level of water with the drain somewhat clogged. The danger of SSRIs of course is the 'sink flowing over' so to speak. Serotonin syndrome can kill, so do take the avoiding harmalas and other MAOI inhibitors while on SSRIs very seriously.

Ok, the SSRI took the edge off of my depression, but how could I do more. Exercise is recommended often, I tried Tai-Chi as anything more fast paced seemed to trigger migraine attacks. I can't recommend Tai-Chi enough.

Oh, sunlight! Bright light stimulates production of serotonin. SAD or Seasonal Affective Disorder is a diagnosis of low serotonin level from the lack of light in non-equatorial climate during the Winter (Or opposite for those in the tropic of Capricorn) Perhaps there is an evolutionary reason, the not-wanting-to-get-out-of-bed might be very beneficial to a hunter-gatherer in the Wintertime when the pickings are slim. But since we have to be productive year round, let's trick our brains with artificial light.

If you have medical insurance you might be able to get therapeutic lights provided for you. I've read of a case of a fast-food manager getting prescribed therapeutic lighting in the USA, and the corporation had to pay for retrofitting the break-room / office with the lighting, however after installing the lighting the manager tracked all-employee productivity going up by 20%!

With my migraines however, I wasn't able to hold onto good employment enough to keep health insurance, I couldn't even afford to keep seeing a physician for my SSRIs, so I went through a horrible SSRI withdrawal and a much too fast taper. Please avoid this at all costs, SSRI withdrawal is dangerous and horrible, tell your doctor that you're too poor and have him slowly taper you. Like I should have done!

I switched from SSRI to 5-htp. 5-htp is a dietary supplement available at supplement shops, and even some grocery stores. Try the internet if you wish to try it and have no local source. Make sure that 5-htp doesn't interact badly with anything that you take or may take. Ask your pharmacist, doctor, or at the very least check a site like this: http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html

5-htp is a molecule very similar to serotonin, and to DMT actually. You can't eat serotonin directly because it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier. 5-htp can be used by your brain as a building block for serotonin with the help of vitamin B6. It goes through a process called decarboxylation and becomes serotonin. Did it work for me, yes, I feel better then I did with SSRIs and without any noticeable side effects.

Back to the lights, if you can't afford special lights, there is a specification that is good to know. It is a measure of the percentage of the sun's natural spectrum that the light falls within. It's called the CRI (Color Rendering Index). 100 would be the same as sunlight. 90 or higher is therapeutic, often compact florescent can be found in this range. A great option is also to buy inexpensive 4 foot T-8 ballast shop lights. As far as tubes, my favorite are the Phillips TL-950 f32t8. Also referred to as the TL-90 5000K (5000K refers to the color temperature and 5000K is close to noon direct sunlight) The f32t8 means that the tube uses 32 watts and is for use in a T-8 ballast. Make sure your ballast type and tube type match. The TL-950 has a CRI of 98, and is surprisingly inexpensive. The Lumichrome 1XC is also a good choice, though tends to be more expensive. Try local lighting supply stores, or the internet to order the lights.

My own experience is that spending time basking under my TL-950s and taking 100mg 5-htp daily has seemed to keep my depression and anxiety under control.

DMT seems to raise the serotonin level for a week or so, but I post this info as something for people to try to see if other not too expensive things might help.

None of the above treated of migraines (except the DMT), the 5-ht system is complex, there are expensive pharmaceutic products like triptans that flood certain receptors with serotonin. Many are helped with psilocybin, for surprisingly long period, as well as DMT, such a myself.

Best luck to everyone on improving your lives, mentally, physically, and spiritually!
 

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cyb
#2 Posted : 3/9/2013 8:13:56 AM

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Very nice Mustelid...thanks for that...

A well deserved promo thumbs up for you...


I was also wondering about mdma...
If it floods receptors to give you the euphoric and anti depressant high that we know and love...

Would daily microdosing help depression and anxiety in a shortish course of treatment?

MAPS is doing good work with PTSD!

Also aware of the serotonin depletion and the resultant nasty comedown...(Tuesday Blues)
Mdma seems to be a paradox...
(makes you feel so good then kicks your butt all the way to Thursday)

Confused
Please do not PM tek related questions
Reserve the right to change your mind at any given moment.
 
Vodsel
#3 Posted : 3/9/2013 12:29:18 PM

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Good post, mustelid. Valuable info there Thumbs up

cyb wrote:
I was also wondering about mdma...
If it floods receptors to give you the euphoric and anti depressant high that we know and love...

Would daily microdosing help depression and anxiety in a shortish course of treatment?


As long as you kept feeding the serotonergic system, perhaps... MDMA releases serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine, so making sure these are actively produced by using precursors like 5htp might be necessary if you were microdosing.
 
Mustelid
#4 Posted : 3/10/2013 8:42:15 PM

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Thanks Cyb and Vodsel.

I don't know much about MDMA, I haven't tried it. I've turned it down due to being on SSRIs, and now, I just want to avoid the famous day-after serotonin crash. My wild conjecture is that keeping your serotonin levels up would help mitigate the crash and possibly potentiate the experience.

I haven't found any dietary changes that seem to work to boost serotonin, however, it makes sense to me that diet would be an important factor. If anyone here has some dietary knowledge or experience, I'd love to hear it.
 
Akasha224
#5 Posted : 3/10/2013 11:38:37 PM
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Great post with lots of info, wish I had known all this a couple years ago when I was also on SSRI's...

I've used 5-htp before on a daily basis and have found that it also has a calming effect (for me at least). One thing that I can't stress enough:

DON'T TAKE 5-HTP IF YOU'RE ON ANTIBIOTICS!

I doubt it will kill you, but you'll have a bad rash. I continued taking 5-htp while I was temporarily on an antibiotic (I think it was doxycycline) and within 12 hours of taking my 5-htp, I went to the emergency room. I doubt it's life threatening, but it's certainly a massive pain in the ass...
Akasha224 is a fictitious extension of my ego; all his posts do not reflect reality & are fictional
 
avedadaise
#6 Posted : 3/11/2013 1:19:55 AM

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Thank you, Mustelid- this was very informative Thumbs up

I was also diagnosed with major depression in early adolescence. Script-happy shrinks introduced multiple pharms into my life, and for years I was on the rollercoaster of drs trying to find that 'cocktail' that would magically flip a switch in my head.
Believe they were detrimental as my brain was not yet fully developed. By late teens I came off and instead explored psychedelics, nutraceuticals, and recreational drugs.

By the time I found DMT personal changes allowed true healing.. Voyaged hyperspace until I found myself, and in reality, came to a standstill mentally.

Physically relocated and in doing so found a good shrink who explained precisely what you shared. A SSRI would indeed fill the holes, and would be beneficial.
After several failed attempts with Aya, and running low on spice, I decided to give meds another stab. I'll admit it has helped, but it has taken me away from D simultaneously.

But that's okay, there is the glory of mushrooms!
Safe with SSRIs and have allowed me to continue questing..
truth

''we shall not cease from exploration,
and at the end of all our exploring
will be to arrive where we started,
and know the place for the first time'' - T.S.E
 
SpartanII
#7 Posted : 3/11/2013 3:20:04 AM

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Mustelid wrote:
Depression and anxiety are often considered a direct consequence of the brain's serotonin levels.


Are we sure that brain chemistry changes are a cause instead of a symptom of the problem?

Perhaps the cause is not so much physical as it is emotional/spiritual that then manifests as physical symptoms?

Just brainstorming...Smile
 
Mustelid
#8 Posted : 3/11/2013 8:16:13 AM

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SpartanII, like the saying goes, "Before diagnosing yourself with depression, make sure you aren't just surrounded by assholes!"

Good point, but experimenting with things that increase serotonin has helped motivate me to change more things and think clearly about my choices and interactions. The rut of depression left me feeling that it wasn't even worth the energy to try to fix myself because nothing could make thing better. That's a terrible and dangerous rut to be in.

I think just a shove out of the vicious cycle is a great think to have. Things have been getting better in my mood and that seems to change my patterns which makes my life better which improves my mood... so since it seems to work, I'm running with it.


 
mrnice
#9 Posted : 3/11/2013 11:32:35 PM
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SpartanII wrote:
Mustelid wrote:
Depression and anxiety are often considered a direct consequence of the brain's serotonin levels.


Are we sure that brain chemistry changes are a cause instead of a symptom of the problem?

Perhaps the cause is not so much physical as it is emotional/spiritual that then manifests as physical symptoms?

Just brainstorming...Smile


You are making a very good point here, if you read some of the literature on the subject it isn't so well established that for example, low levels of serotonin actually contribute to depression. The "establishment" says that but it isn't actually proven. Remember that while the serotonin receptors have impact on so many things, the human brain is something very complex and we are a long time away from understanding it. Dopamine is also tryptamine-like in structure.
There is discussion on this subject on Bluelight, where the question has been raised if 5-Hydroxytryptophan actually is a good thing to take after MDMA, for example, we don't know what it really does.
But, I take brewer's yeast on a daily basis, which has l-tryptophan and lots of other things in it, and it feels like a SSRI but much better (maybe because of the magnesium and other things). Don't know where I read it but there is evidence that high levels of serotonin are associated with depression too.
The trick about depression is to have everything balanced, it is simple actually, just make sure you live a non-stressful life, accomplish your goals, and most importantly, practice sports and eat very well. Most of the serotonin we have is generated (synthesized) dependent on the things we eat. You must keep a good balance of everything, not just serotonin. Of course we can't measure the levels in vivo, but we can guess by how we feel.
EDIT:
Serotonin, depression, and aggression: The problem of brain energy

Cheers
 
Vodsel
#10 Posted : 3/11/2013 11:58:00 PM

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SpartanII wrote:


Are we sure that brain chemistry changes are a cause instead of a symptom of the problem?

Perhaps the cause is not so much physical as it is emotional/spiritual that then manifests as physical symptoms?

Just brainstorming...Smile


Not to derail the thread, but I think the problem here is the definition of a causal arrow. If our emotions/spirit can manifest as physical symptoms, it's also true that by chemically altering those symptoms we are able to change the manifestations of our emotions/spirit.

The mystery in that correlation is what took us here.
 
 
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