Well, that changes everything.

Yeah, I mean as soon as I read this


I thought NO, REALLY?

They do brew some mighty fine beer though.

As long as we're mentioning great accomplishments of Germany: Kant, Heidegger, Hegel, Nietzsche...

I would recommend moving if you dislike the location that much. You could always fight to change things there or wait for things to change over time, but what's the point? Nations should be treated like shoes: We should be unattached and willing to try different ones until we find the one that fits. On the other hand, I would imagine that what you're describing, in Germany, is the attitude in most other countries as well, and for good reason. In the past, such close-mindedness has benefited society. As we move toward a more progressive future, perhaps such attitudes will die out as they start to hold back societies that adopt them. I think that the best way to change culture is to simply raise your children differently. I can't think of a better way to shoot for a better future.

As much as we love to think that the grass is greener somewhere else, the unfortunate fact is there becomes here and we see that the grass is simply a different shade of green.

There are the problems you speak of everywhere in some way or another, nobody is unique anywhere. There are many more of you out there (just as there are the personalities you dislike), it's just a case of finding them.

Maybe Portugal is the place for you? Mediterranean climate, cuisine & culture and the decriminalization of drug use.

Yes, you are right nen.
Hitler was born in Braunau in upper austria and mozart in Salzburg.

Enoon, good to know that it isn't just me..or to say it with fry: "Not sure if anti-social - or just sorrounded by idiots". It is this very fact, that so called "open minded" people are not open minded at all is what really disturbs me. I once learned about a visionary artist giving a talk. She's lived with the shipibo for a while. So i collected my remaining courage and went to see her speak. Well, ayahuasca was mentioned one time ("Ayahuasca tourism is horrible" fair enough) but never again. It boggles the mind, that a visionary artist talking about the shipibo, and their traditional clothes does not ONCE mention the influence of ayahuasca. It is a shame, a real shame. The audience was full of what i would call the "typical" Reformhaus-crowd. Some had good vibes going, but most seemed to be smartasses which showed in their irrelevant questions. Something i have sadly noticed all across the board when it comes to older people visiting lecture. They're all trying to spread their "wisdom". I guess this event has disturbed me a bit because if there is a psychedelic scene besides the dance and party culture, this would have been the event to show up i guess.

No one does minimal techno like the Germans.

I wonder why that is.

To be fair, there is also a lot of good pop-rock.... http://www.tape.tv/musikvideos/Madsen/Ein-Sturm

"With you i wanna be, where chaos sets us free. To make us understand, that we're alive indeed"

Also note the brit rock influences. British culture is very close to german culture imho. Brits always try to deny that fact and so do germans calling each other "Krauts" and "Island Apes" but well ....

Also, about german being minimalistic: I actually like that, but it's a mechanical kind of minimalism. I like the scandinavian minimalism better as it is more emotional, aesthetic. Kopenhagen is a good example.



Cannabis is also very popular, but isn't there a place where it isn't ?
But since beer is a cultural heritage, it has a broad hegemonic appeal.

I kept my bets on the US for "setting the tone" but since cannabis legalisation for medical use hasn't happened yet i don't put too much hope into it. The USA is losing power as leader and Europe desperatly tries to position itself as a major united player.



Yes, a drama that isn't well understood by the population at all. As i understand it, germany somehow profits from the Euro while other countries would be better off with a national currency and germany refuses to pay these other states enough money to keep them stable. The thing is, germany is very rich in comparison but keeps complaining because the unemployment rate has gone up by 0.2% - so everyone can feel constantly threatened and miserable. I would like a typical german live the life of a typical greece for a couple of month to let them know who's got the right to be afraid.



So do it! Maybe i'm just ungrateful...this seems to be a tendency to be observed in many people. Just make sure to visit the right cities and you'll propbably enjoy your stay.



These are like the two decent places in germany Berlin has a rich cultural scene and is very leftist by nature and possibly the only true metropolitan city in .de. Leipzig on the other side, is truly a diamon in the rough as it appears to me (been there once). Rent is low, lots of undeveloped space and a thriving student and hippy community. I think it would be place to go if i was to move within germany. They even have some weird hippy pub.

i guess we'd wreck havoc or at least you would. You see, being social and outgoing makes it easy to make friends anywhere i guess. But you are what you are and i won't complain.



Thanks for the compliment, that was a nice thing to say! I've actually seen Rätsch speak once but was too shy to hit the pub after the "lecture" (if you could call it that). He is a unique person and VERY intense though. He stared at mme once and then never looked at me again...i think i have failed his karma test or something

Oh and the can .....she brings the rain, it feels like spring, magic mushrooms, out of dreams....



Well, the thing is - it all stopped with WW2. And WW1 was the real beginning of the End. Even if widely believed, germany wasn't the cause for WW1 yet got all the blame and incubated Hitler as a result. Germans at that time wanted Hitler, that's for sure and it destroyed a whole lot. If you take a lot at the 1920s and how progressive this decade was. First wave of feminism for instance - you can get a slight feel for that in "Boardwalk empire" i guess. The dawn of modern arts...cubism, futurism, expressionism. Sure, with Paris as a center....Then came the nazis and the clock went backwards and now we have this dead, uninspired culture. I believe the reason why tourists often love germany is the fact that people here know how to party and hold their liquer - it's like the only venue to live a little.

Oh and Austria...well, i've visited many times and it always felt like a snobbish, arrogant Version of Bavaria and there i've been the victim of Xenophobia for the first time. A good experience i have to add. Makes you really realize how stupid it is. To be fair, the cultural differences between the north and south are stark.

I really feel the need to travel.

and i probably am in a good position because



It's too late for me to have kids.

Obli, if I were you I would travel should finances/circumstances permit. Seeing other places may help temper your distaste for Germany.

I dont believe WW1 was caused by Germany; Im sad to say that Great Britains role in this is often overlooked but the victors do write the history. GB felt fearful of Germanys technological advancements in the preceding 40ish years, particularly building war ships which were made of metals and ran on oil which threatened Britains mastery of the high seas with all the benefits this can bring.Germanys plans to build a railway to Baghdad and acquire 'direct access' to vast reserves of oil and Britains recognition it was lagging behind meant that under whatever pretext which transpired, war was pretty much inevitable.

Obli, each country has its problems and you might find yourself in a place where you don't agree with a lot of things, but I'm certain that there are a lot of locations where at least this kind of mindset - open mindedness / willingness to look at alternative routs to self development than buying food at organic stores and doing yoga (with a teacher that doesn'T even know what yoga means) - exists in a much more developed sense. Even within europe. and you being european could easily benefit from the fact tht the borders are open and you can live anywhere you like.

However, if you have trouble making friends then all this will get you is a change in atmosphere and little more. Perhaps this is all you want, or is enough for making it worth it. For me it was.

In Germany I would speak to a lot of people about psychedelics, just to kind of see what they'd say. depending on how they reacted to the initial "bringing it up" I might admit more than just curiosity / interest. If I asked the people who did other drugs (weed and coke usually) they'd say they'd tried some for going to clubs and usually quit after having bad experiences. When I'd explain how I use them they'd look at me like I was from another planet.

Those that weren't already in the "drug culture" either would tell me that "it is a bad idea to use them because blablabla enlightenment blablabla silence in your mind blablabla" or "blablablablabla".

Very few believed that there was any merrit in them.

But I think this is a general problem, not just in Germany. The idea that one can work with psychedelics is not very widespread and very poorly understood. With the difference that the Germans would say: Even if studies show that it's possible - you alone could not possibly work with them - you'd need a therapist or some kind of authority to help you.

Also here even if people have never heard of the idea of working with hallucinogens in a pschological or spiritual manner they are curious and ask questions. In Germany (with a few exceptions) most people would start spewing out all the no-drug nonsense that they have been fed and rationalizing why it's a bad idea and totally impossible that anything good come out of it. I suppose it's just a difference in culture.

Not everything is better here than there. but this surely is one of them.

good luck obli

I have lived in different cities and countries over the years and i think living in a new city for a shy person can be tough and possibly colour your view. In villages people tend to come check you out. Whether they are open minded, or not, is a lottery. But being put into the position where you have to interact can be beneficial.
I also think when a countrie"s views are predominantly closed minded, this usually breeds quite a healthy counter culture.
If you want a beautiful,cultuarally expansive, open minded place to live that is"nt a city, i recomend you visit Falmouth, cornwall in the uk, sometimes i wonder why i left. Perhaps the grass looked greener on the other side, but i also think its a good idea to check out the many coloured lawns of our planet. The only place i would never return to live is my home town in the UK.

I love ze lawns...

Obliguhl

I truly feel for you as I know exactly what it is like living in a consumerist conservative society which is based within city living. The grass isn't always greener on the other side though and I think no matter where you go each and every single country has similar issues. I also think the loss of community based infrastructure and society being disenchanted with the world contributes a lot to the issues that you have mentioned.

In my country I have to deal with a very high crime rate and environmental issues sadly do not have high priority within my governments agenda, though I guess I have tried my best to look at all the positive aspects of where I live rather than the negative. I know sometimes it can become over whelming though I feel its greatly important to be strong, as we are all right where we are supposed to be I guess.

If a door opens for you to travel I would highly recommend doing so as there are few things as invigorating and rejuvenating as a journey to some where unknown. I really wish you the best of luck and I completely understand where you are coming from, I would greatly suggest a change of scenery even if its for a short while as I think it really would do you the world of good.


Much Peace and Understanding

Those Austrians like to sneak into Deutschland and wreak all kinds of havoc.

Kafka always belonged among my most favourite German Jews living in Prague...

Obliguhl: your first post actually reminded me of Kafka´s writings. Not because of the style of writing, but by the social critique aimed at your own society. Kafka was also quite good at it

Germany makes some of the best technologies in the world. Absolutely nothing to do with drugs so maybe that's why they don't regard drugs as productive?

It's all very well people saying move to another country or whatever but life isn't that simple, i wish it was.

Haha, du bist Deutschland

But I can feel you. It's time for a trip, I'd say.

...a definite trip (with all one´s belongings), it seems...

..actually i've spent a couple of days in Bavaria amidst crazy oom-pa-pa dancing (and i had dreadlocks then, and they still were friendly!)..

throw psychedelics in the mix and they'd be completely mad!!




..bavaria was supposedly a strong-hold of the Nazis..
i found them friendly..i think they were just too drunk to care about much!

Perhaps i'm fooling myself by thinking that a change in atmosphere would make me more sociable. But then, everytime i muster a bit of "social energy" i look around and instantly lose interest.

You and corpus c. are right, i need to get out of here, one way or another. I could not support myself, but i'm putting all my ressources into my business to enable travel and a more stable life.

Well, enoon, what you describe seems common. In the US there IS a certain culture in which people practice psychedelic journeying. This culture can be accessed. It might be hard but it is possible.I've finished Lorenzo haggertys "Genesis generation" and listened to a podcast featuring the woman who runs the Womens visionary conference or how it's called and it seems that underground psychedelic societies exist, especially in california. In Germany, use of psychedelics is part of the wider "drug scene" or so it seems ..."Get fucked up". Well, i certainly don't judge, but i'd like to find people to whom psychedelic use is but one part of their spirituality. I mean, there are spiritual people in germany, but they seem to be rather fundamentalistic about their meditation practice.



This problem probably does not exist as much in the US and other "DIY cultures". I remember having tons of ideas as a child and young teenager. I'd tell my schoolmates about them and they were always like "Scientists would have discovered this already if this would be a good thing!". Also the trmendous weight germans put on their PhD (Doktor) - if you don't have a PhD noone will listen. You don't have the right to speak about your ideas.

@hug46
I'll try to keep your tip in mind

@Aegle
As always, thanks for your heartfelt, loving reply. There are problems everywhere, indeed. But then i do believe that "problems" exist only from a certain perspective. So there might be a place i would fit in way better because of my dispositions and skills.

@Michael
That's quite a compliment. If you could just tell me how to stop feeling like im in "The Process" all the time

@nen


No, they are really friendly and warm. I visited munich and the first thing that happened was that the server asked an elderly couple if i could sit with them because all tables in the restaurant were full. They happily obliged. They may be conservative, but i believe that is were they draw their strength from and it enables them to show a lot of hospitality.

Just imagine being in the audience on mushrooms:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/VSvFZsI0Fbg

"Your name's marry and i = bangjuh"