Some riveting and contemplative thoughts and opinions for sure.. I don't know what the word/written version of experiencing a dejavu would be be called but when I read all this, it seems somehow familiar

It's interesting that you say the spice automatically manifested your throat singing ability. It confirms my belief that in the Pandora's box of hyperspace, you can't prepare for what will happen to, you, nor can you prepare adequately for what you will do in response.

My whole (probably somewhat naive) reason for starting this discussion was to get an idea of how people have experienced hyperspace conflict, in order to help others (like myself) prepare mentally for the possibility. To stress the point, this is not just about encountering dark entities. It is about fighting them.

It seems to me that ultimately, one cannot prepare. That said a lot of good points have been made so far that are worth reading and internalising:

- Do not give in to fear
- Let go
- Stand firm and make it clear that no negativity may enter you
- Visualise with intent, the dissolution of the threat
- Chanting

I was going to put mudras, command words and calling out to higher powers in there, but no one's yet confirmed their efficacy through experience.

Thanks for the interesting accounts so far people. Feel free to keep 'em coming

anyone here concider that maybe you are just fighting with repressed aspects of your own subconscious that have taken on a life of their own?..instead of facing and accepting them??

Just playing devils advocate here.

In mazatecan currandismo they say that you have to be able to tell what is real and what is not real in the visions. A lot of repressed personal stuff can come up wearing all sorts of faces.

Yall need a mesa.

That's a good point to always bear in mind. Keep questioning and ask is this really occurring outside of me.

Trouble is when things get too real. Those experiences that are too far removed from human experience to be perceived as manifestations of self while they are occurring (though afterwards they may well be understood as that in retrospect). Hence the naive attempt to prepare.

Thanks for mentioning mesas. I haven't encountered the idea before and just read up a bit about it. Mind sharing your own views on the concept?

In my posts about various spirits and such I did write this:

Or perhaps this is all silly and the deities are psychological manifestations of unresolved issues that are deeply personal and incapable of being understood or dealt with in any other way.

I think it is absolutely worth considering and just as likely as it is that the entities are independent of the observer.

Anything is possible really. manifestations of internal subconscious thoughts ?
an interactive dream world?

I'm open to any possibility but my interpretations are based on many many many experiences that are repeating. The specific repidative nature of these experiences makes me question the idea of subconscious reflections or projections. It seems if that were the case they would be more random in nature. My own experiences are very specific and based on only a small groups of themes.

in answer to Globals question of what color this aggressive thing usually is :

the predominant color I experience is Red. the thing is complex like a gnarled tree root, very textured . Its a single entity thats old, sneaky, curious and smart. It usually comes in and is on me before i realize it. Sometimes it pokes parts of my brain. I've lost count of how many times I've been through this. Opti comes to mind.

Why would we want to do battle with ourselves?

Acknowledging that they might be subconscious psychological projections doesn't really get you anywhere if they are still hijacking and derailing perfectly good experiences left and right. Ok, so they're part of your subconscious...what next?

A challenge. To learn things about the greatest enemy you will ever do battle with.
Ever sat in the dark and thought about the monsters that could be till you created one that scared you?
Acknowledging these monsters were illusions beats them every time IMO/IME.

I didn't mean to imply that we shouldn't. The battle with the ego is one of the most important battles we will ever engage in. I just wanted to make conversation about it.

Eventually though, I think we must realize that battling the ego isn't really in our best interests either. It is a wonderful servant, just a terrible master.

Would you mind sharing one of the experiences where you failed to fight off an entity? What happened?

I had this experience once. I had set my space up and got comfy then attempted lift off... nothing. I tried again... nothing again. a third go lead to the room quite literally exploding in what I can only describe as very sharp trigonal fractals, each one rotating in on itself. I found this instantly quite threatening but couldn't understand why until I looked at this seething fractal mess as a whole. then I saw it... the fractals were forming the body of an immense and very dark entity at which point each swirling fractal formed a screaming, crying, angry face at its centre. about this time I noticed that this entity had began to force its seething fractal mass upon me and so began our battle, albeit a battle of wills and not combat like our physical bodies engage in.
I can't say how much time passed but, having had a lot of time in dmt space to gauge by it lasted longer than any time in hyperspace before or since. the dark entity toyed with me, projecting images of pain, trauma and torment all specifically designed to destabilize me and not just random images. I felt it creeping over my skin and underneath it at certain points too. In the end I forced it to retreat after much mental effort which I can best describe as a telepathic tug of war. I personally feel that the protective crystals I had and always do have around me when in the space saved me big time here and I'm not too sure I would have prevailed so easily, if at all, without them. I'm not sure if that's what you meant by combat but I definitely felt like I was fighting so there it is, make what you will of it, but I would add that I count this as the most positive experience the medicine has ever gifted me with. the level of spiritual health I have gained from this "battle" is so invaluable that I would go through that experience again and be glad for it.

That's awesome man. Exactly the kind of experience I was getting at. Interesting that you feel your crystals helped you. A lot of what's been said confirms the advice on the Wiki about encountering dark entities. I also draw comfort from various power objects and hope to accumulate more as time passes. That's why I found the idea of shamanic mesas so interesting. Never heard of 'em before they were mentioned here.

If they were subconscious then one would still have to face them as if they were independent of the observer anyway, so... I suppose it comes down either way to personal choices, approaches and the aspects of the entities themselves.

Rezzing this thread with a nice video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU84WUAlqnI

Very interesting, and very related to the topic.

Awesome link Valura. Those eyes man. What a warrior soul!

I respect you, I respect your opinion, and I also used to think about things the same way and have not found such thinking to be productive. I have noticed in myself that the concern of having to fight something in hyperspace comes from an internal place of insecurity (out of an insecurity in my own safety, in my own power, and a need to prove it to myself), and a lack of realization that so called "enemies" are valuable teachers that show us our own shadow.

I don't believe that entities who have ascended to the hyperspace planes of consciousness can maintain a dualistic sense of ego (hyperspace inherently rips apart ego and dualities), so their motives couldn't possibly be to harm you (all aggression and violence comes from ego and duality). In my experience, the only dark entities that exist are those that we create. No being is "dark", it's a label that is imposed upon something because it feels threatening to our egoic self. In hyperspace, all you see is an aspect of you, the cosmic, eternal, non-egoic you that comprises all existence. If something feels threatening it's because you're looking at it from an egoic place. Look at the wording of the statement itself: I need to defend myself!. In hyperspace, I believe that this fear, the threatening feeling is the ego's defense mechanism to stall and prolong its own inevitable dissolution into the source of all existence. Ego is, by definition ("I am this, not that" separates "I" from "that" ), separation from the source of all existence.

On this same topic of ego, labeling something as "dark" necessarily designates yourself as "above", "better", "more righteous", "more full of light" than another being. There's ego loaded into the word "dark" without it being obvious.

I don't use these dualities of fighting and defending any more because it is an indication of a lack of faith in this principle: whatever comes to us while in hyperspace is necessary for our own learning and healing. If something uncomfortable happens, fighting it is a sure way to a) not learn the lesson or receive the healing that was sent to you, b) make the experience exponentially more uncomfortable than it needs to be, and c) show your higher self that your ego self knows better. You can only temporarily push something away in hyperspace, it always seems to eventually comes back stronger and more overwhelming (in my experience).

A much safer and productive attitude is to let go and flow into the experience, and let it flow into you. The key is to have an attitude of "I wonder what is going to happen next?" at all times.

What's the worst that can happen, what is there to be afraid of? Nobody has ever died from DMT, the vast majority don't end up in psychosis from it (this is the only thing that I could imagine being worried about, but if you've already done it a few times and you haven't totally lost your mind, there should be nothing to fear).

I want to add something to my above post...

In my first few journeys into hyperspace I encountered some very uncomfortable beings and experiences. I tried to push them away and fight back. After a while, I realized that the feelings of uncomfortableness were actually healing me. Sometimes healing is painful and uncomfortable. Ever had surgery? Using this dualistic mindset, of designating anyone who causes you harm as an enemy, what if you decided the doctor who was operating on your cancerous tumor was your mortal enemy because he meant to cut you open with knives; would that be beneficial to your health? In hyperspace, and in situations like this example, we have to just lay down and go with it. Nothing in hyperspace exists to harm, so there is no need to defend. In truth, trying to defend disrupts the "energetic surgery" that hyperspace beings administer.

Beautiful post Spiral Eye.

I think your view of this is very accurate, not just because it lines up with my own

In my original post in this thread I wasn't thinking of it in this manner, however. I was thinking of when it felt like a physical fight. I've had countless experiences with psychedelics when I just surrender and let these "dark" forces/entities consume me. But as you said, you always learn from those encounters. Pushing it away or fighting it is not going to teach you anything, other than to run from what frightens you and that which you do not understand.

You speak truth Spiral. I appreciate the nondualistic worldview greatly. It breaks through the limits imposed upon reality by language and opens up perception gaps into the transcendental.


Very true.

Thanks for posting Spiral. In a sense, what you've said confirms my belief that the warrior path necessitates a nondualistic perspective. Without it, as you've pointed out, the conflict only deepens.