Did SWIY find that the psychological intensity followed the visuals? SWIM had some strong visuals before with this pharmahuasca, things turning into pastel paint blends and animated cartoony.

Then when the visuals stopped, the psychological was mentally gripping, fantastic, going totally insane for a moments. Then visuals returned and SWIM was worried it wouldn't end. In all, 5 hours. SWIM will try a stronger amount next time.

He'd like to make visuals stronger, but not have the psychological side get too much more powerful because that was at least 2X as strong as the visuals.

SWIM would agree here, but on a level with the harmala junctions harmaline seems to cloud his visions alone into a more sedating level, and with THH there's a strong resemblance.. would be sensing 'the vine's deep presence, but it doesn't feel quite complete. Would definitely like to get around to harmine or even harmalol someday.

Possibly a daft question' but here goes anyways'


For SWIM, he needs about 200 mg of THH orally in order to feel it, or about 20 mg sublingually.

Is this because Harmala alkaloids are no absorbed very well through the gut ?

Bliss

Nobuoni +

Yes.

THH gets destroyed by MAO-A in the gut, that’s why it’s more potent when snorted or taken sublingually. That’s also why it’s an MAO-A inhibitor because it rapidly uses up all the MAO-A enzymes.

In fact, taking an MAOI 20 minutes before taking THH will make it work even better orally. I’ve heard that taking 100 mg of harmaline 20 minutes before taking 200 mg of THH will make the THH become “active”. I’m not sure what that means. I assume it becomes psychedelic like it does at the 350 mg dose when taken alone.

When, ayahuasca is taken by the natives, they usually take it several times over and over, so that should make the THH become “active”.

Has anyone tried taking harmaline and then THH 20 minutes later?

where you saying on another post Ron that the harmaline is the less sleepy more stimulating one, less foggy?
if so taking a dose of that prior to ingesting THH would be the plan of attack one would think...

On this same note,

Has anyone tried snorting THH?

Has anyone activated oral DMT with sublingual THH?

That's backwards. If I said that, it was a mistake. Harmine is the less sleepy more stimulation one, harmaline is the most sleepy foggy one. THH is neither stimulation or sedating at the normal MAOI dose used, and at those doses it doesn't affect your mind much at all. But at 350 mg and up, THH becomes psychedelic on it’s own.

SWIM has snorted THH and it works just about the same as sublingual..a bit faster..but it has a nasty burn...its not awful but it makes your throat raw...SWIM has also had best results with oral dmt when he takes THH with harmaline..the THH has slight stimulating effects for SWIM and the harmaline helps balance that..and if what 69ron says is correct..the harmaline blocks the mao-a and helps the THH become more active...

Has SWIY used sublingual THH to activate oral DMT? SWIM is considering this method purely for conservation purposes. Why take 200mg if all you need is 50mg sublingually? Does anyone have any information on what dose sublingual THH can activate oral DMT?

You guys don't understand how MAOIs work.

Harmine, THH, and harmine are MAO-A inhibitors. That is why they are poorly absorbed. They get bound to MAO-A in the gut instead of going into your blood stream. That's how they work. If they didn't bind to MAO-A in the gut, they wouldn't be MAO inhibitors. All MAOIs are poorly absorbed orally because they bind to MAO enzymes in the gut and get inactivated.

The reason they work is because they bind to the many MAO enzymes in your digestive system and use them all up. That then allows things like DMT to pass through the digestive system because all the harmine is bound to all the MAO-A enzymes preventing them from binding to the DMT and inactivating the DMT.

If you take an MAOI sublingually, it's going to go directly into your blood stream and bypass your digestive system. I don't think it's possible to orally activate DMT that way because all the MAO enzymes in the digestive system would still be intact and would break down the DMT.

I'm sorry, I said that wrong. I didn't mean destroyed. I meant bound, made inactive. THH binds to MAO-A in the gut and is prevented from going into the blood stream until all MAO-A enzymes are inactivated. It's this very action that makes it a reversible MAO-A inhibitor. While it's bound to MAO-A, it's acting as an MAO-A inhibitor. If all the MAO-A enzymes are already bound to harmaline, then when THH in ingested, it passes right through the digestive system unhindered and goes directly into the blood stream. The same is true if THH is taken followed by harmaline.

When taken sublingually, it bypasses all the MAO-A enzymes in the digestive system and so it's more potent in psychoactive effects, but not more potent as an MAOI for the digestive system.

You get it?

It's correct.

If you take enough THH, eventually you inactivate all MAO-A enzymes in the gut and then the THH itself can enter the blood stream and cause psychedelic effects.

That is why the effective MAOI dose and the effective psychedelic doses are different. The effective MAOI dose of THH is 150-200 mg. The effective psychedelic dose is 350-400 mg. Once you go past a certain level, it suddenly becomes a new experience because its able to pass into the blood stream rapidly. It takes about 200 mg of THH to bind to all MAO-A in the gut. Once that happens any more that is taken, passes right through.

If you take 100 mg of THH, 200 mg of THH, 300 mg of THH, it's the same experience. It's not psychedelic. When you take 350-400 mg it suddenly becomes psychedelic because all the MAO-A enzymes are inactivated and so it's now able to pass into the brain.

It's a fact that MAOIs make other MAOIs more potent.

If you took 100 mg of harmaline, it would effectively bind to all the MAO-A enzymes in the gut so that THH would not have to. Then THH would not need to work as an MAO-A inhibitor and be able to pass right through the gut because the harmaline already did the MAO-A business.

It's like this.

You take 150 mg of THH and it binds to 50% of your MAO-A enzymes leaving the other 50% active.

You take 150 mg more THH and it binds to 50% more MAO-A enzymes leaving none active.

You take 150 mg more THH and with no more MAO-A enzymes left to bind to, it passes right through your gut and now causes psychedelic effects instead of MAOI effects. It is now "activated".


You could instead use harmaline to "activate" THH like this:

You take 100 mg of harmaline to bind to all 100% of your MAO-A enzymes leaving none active.

You take 150 mg THH and with no more MAO-A enzymes left to bind to, it passes right through your gut and now causes psychedelic effects instead of MAOI effects. It is now "activated".

You get it?

You could use THH to activate itself, or use harmaline (which is cheaper) to activate THH.

Hmm, SWIM's decided that after he tries out this caapi copy stuff, he's probably to try taking harmaline, harmine, and THH separately in the that order. He would take the bare minimum of harmaline for full MAOI activity, then take enough harmine to hopefully counter-act some of sleepiness of harmaline, then take THH followed shortly by DMT to finally blast off.

SWIM would venture to guess that this probably isn't far off from simly taking three separate doses of caapi, but possibly more efficient and refined.

Edit:
Ha! That's creepy, 69ron.

Quick questions'
If drinking vine 75-150 grams is psycho-active'
Ingested 300mg of Harmine hcl Rue extract' it is only slightly psycho-active' as in deffinite effect' but~~~~~~|
Kind of like popping an SSRI' some pressure in the head' slight hightened colours' expanded conciousness' going no where' no CEV or EOV strobbing'
Through the slight up fuzzy effect there is a deffinite anti-depressant tone'
No nausia' a mild experience' long lasting' no motion sickness' kind of prickly head' stimulating'

With 150 grams of vine after the purge' the vine hits hard' bringing visions and great introspection'

Is this of what would normaly be experienced off of 300mg Harmine hcl' ?
Of what dose oraly is Harmine hcl psycho-active ?
Of what dose oraly is Harmine freebase psycho-active ?
Is it better to take these under the tongue ?

Expected was something comparable to a vine only experience'
300 mg is insufficient as a comparable effect to 75 grams of vine'

This feels more like 500 mg of Silene Capensis' quite stimulating in a hard to explain sort of way'
Took the best part of 3 hours to peak and has been going 8 hours' has took 8 hours to reach desired effect'
Very clear anti-depressant' crystal clear colours' stimulating in an almost edgey' fuzzy way'
Extra kick after eating!

Any input on Rhodolia Rosea and Harmine would be greatly appreciated ))

Thanks'

Blessings

Nobuoni +

First off, a rue extract is not harmine HCl. It’s mixture of harmine HCl and harmaline HCl. Because harmaline is about twice as potent as harmine and roughly 50% of the alkaloids present in rue, it’s the primary effect you get from ingesting a rue alkaloid extract.

Don’t be confused. Harmine HCl does not feel like a rue extract does. It’s very different and more hallucinogenic than a rue extract is. Rue is primarily a harmaline experience.

Vine is very different. Vine contains almost equal amounts of harmine and THH, and almost no harmaline. That’s why it’s so different.



Again, a rue alkaloid extract is NOT just harmine HCl. It’s about 50% harmaline, which is a drug with very different effects from harmine.

For SWIM the following dose information is pretty consistent. Other people may require more or less to achieve the same effects as SWIM.

Full MAOI doses for SWIM:
200 mg of harmine HCl
100 mg of harmaline HCl
200 mg of THH HCl

Psychoactive doses for SWIM:
250 mg of harmine HCl
150 mg of harmaline HCl
350 mg of THH HCl

They are all psychoactive in different ways. THH is most DMT or LSD-like. Harmaline is the most like marijuana, and harmine is sort of in between the two with more stimulant effects. Harmaline is the most dreamy and sedating. Harmine is more “psychedelic” than harmaline. THH is the most “psychedelic” but requires much larger doses. That’s how it is for SWIM, but not everyone is the same.

A mix if THH and harmine is most like caapi. A mix of harmine and harmaline is most like rue. When these are combined, new effects are felt that aren’t present when they are taken in isolated form.



It’s just slightly less. The dose is 80% the dose of the HCl form.



They are all many times more psychoactive when taken sublingually rather than orally.



Again, harmine is NOT the same as caapi no matter what dose you take. Caapi is primarily a mix of harmine and THH. Without the THH, the experience is not at all the same as caapi. THH is almost totally different from harmine. It feels almost nothing like harmine and the psychedelic state produced by it is also quite distinct from that of harmine.

69ron, you are putting a lot of emphasis on binding the MAO-A enzymes in the gut, but that is only a concern when taken orally and swallowed correct? If taken sublingually so that it rests under the tongue will a much lower dose have the same effect or do you still need to offset the MAO-A enzymes?

Yes. That’s right.



If taken under the tongue a much lower dose will have the same effect as a higher oral dose does because it doesn’t need to offset the MAO-A enzymes in the gut.

The main psychoactive effects of these harmala alkaloids occur after all the MAO-A enzymes in the gut are bound. That applies if taken orally. If taken sublingually without swallowing it, you pretty much bypass that whole system so they are psychoactive at much lower doses.

Much appreciated 69Ron' it seems it would have got un-comfortable to increase the dose over 300mg' so looks to get a massive bucket and do this extraction on vine ))
Lingering effects the following day' but far far from any decent vine experience' Would have potentiated spice very well' the inhibition was greatly recognised'
Mild anti-depressant effect still going'

Blessings

Nobuoni +