It's not difficult at all to understand the role of a Shaman/ Curandero if one decides to read a little about it. It only takes 10 minutes to look it up in Wikapedia for a quick summary.

You certainly won't understand what it's about by talking to others who don't know what it's about though.

I think a lot of the misunderstandings arise out of people's pre conceived ideas, which are usually completely wrong. Usually from people who have little to no understanding of anything other than their own culture and history.

I have to agree with the op.
Seeing it first hand and hearing all the increasing more common horror stories its clear that ayahuasca tourism is doing more harm than good. Anytime money becomes a big factor with anything, things are bound to be corrupt due to nature of the ego. A true shaman puts himself before others and helps others regardless of paying all this money since it has no true value to a curandero, but the danger of aya tourism is it helps create value to things that once did not, thus increasing the tendencies of a shaman to follow the path of power rather than love. By bringing in westerners to the amazon in a way we are westernizing the amazon helping unpurify and alter traditional ways. Indeed most cases people that go aren't really in need of a curandero and could and should resolve on their own. I believe in many ways we should be our own shaman but indeed the tendency of most people is to empower others rather than themselves.

Christian-

After many, many posts now, I gotta ask... What's up with your crusade against anyone who feels a 'shaman' is unnecessary?

You've gone to South America once now, right? Since then you seem to post in every discussion regarding shamans... proclaiming this is the only proper method of experiencing the medicine. Yet, you don't comment elsewhere in the forums. There seems to be some kind of agenda behind your posts.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you've made your point now. You need a shaman to experience ayahuasca. Others, like me, don't see this as the case. Let's leave it at that and let each person find out for themselves, eh?

Sorry A1pha if you feel i'm spamming this thread.

I was only trying to differentiate the difference between the modern day use of Aya by solitary drinkers, and tourists/ and it's intended uses.

Wethere i've been to South America or whatnot was not of any real importance, (i've actually been several times there). People can feel free to do as they wish with their Aya, and personally i'm not saying a Shaman is even necessary. It depends on what you want.

You will see if i have any 'crusade', then it's AGAINST dodgy Curandero's, and there's good reason behing it. I'm not saying anything negative whatsoever about the solitary drinker.

There's no agenda behind my posts other than to attempt to clarify what i believe to be the actual facts from many sources of research. I'm no expert, and never said so.

I apologise for any ill feelings.

I never said it was a profession. Don't know where you got that?
It is a practice with the intent to better understand & work the psyche. For
good or for bad. There may be different methods & traditions, but the basic intention remains the same: To better understand & influence the psyche. New, younger traditions
are NOT nececairily void of meaning or less worthy, allthough I defenitely agree Ayahuasca is being abused by many with impure, counter-shamanic intentions. But one can still become a great shaman without learning it from ancient traditions. I consider myself a syncretist: I am inspired by many, old traditions, but I feel compelled to pick them apart and put them in my own context.



Yet again you are putting words in my mouth. Your interpretation is very far from what I meant. I never said it is for just anyone. I mentioned a very specific intent & set of skills and, although they are basic, they are very much key to becomming a good shaman.

Without those intentions & basic skills you're likely to become a bad shaman. So no it's not for everybody.



I am amazed by your hostility. And by how you completely misinterpret my words. According to you I equated Shamanism to stage magicn & performance.
I never said any such thing you grabbed that completely out of the air.
Could be me, but from where I'm sitting your response seems completely inappropriate(actually outright rude) & uncalled for.

To simplify what I said about a shaman's role:
The intent to help understand & heal the psyche of oneself & others. To be able to
remain stable & of pure intentions whilst helping clients, even when these clients
are overflowing with instability & impure intentions.


I completely fail to understand how you interpretted that as me thinking Shamans
are stage magicians.

I DO think to be a good Shaman requires a certain type of talented & skilled people.
It's not just for anyone. But there are ALOT of people with Shaman-talent who have
no cultural connection to ancient Shamanic traditions at all.
When I say people with Shaman talents & aspirations I CLEARLY do no mean douchebags who would use Ayahuasca to seduce women or start a little cult to become revered.
These are clearly impure, egoic intentions aspiring hedonism & power.

I mean people who genuinly, selflessly want to help people, without seeking sexual pleasure, , financial gain or power from/over them. Many aspiring shamans fail to get their priorities
straight, but there are certainly aspiring shamans with Pure intentions & impressive skills.
They may lack the knowledge that ancient traditions had, but they are on a right path.


What I was saying was that these people with talent, pure inentions & aspirations for Shamanism should NOT feel unworthy of founding their own Shamanic tradition.

Besides, what is really left of these ancient traditions & how hard is it to get in on that knowledge nowadays?
If new aspiring shamans don't start new traditions, Shamanism may disappear all together.

Quotes taken out of context confuse the discussion ^ I believe lagomorph was quoting the OP and reflecting on his assertions in the above pulled quotes, SKA, not stating it was you?

Back to the discussion, I see a lot of confusion in the idea of a shaman, who I believe has a special gift to heal. Maybe there is a gap in terminology, but there are many who I would say "know the territory" and can guide a person on their own personal journey, yet who are not Shamans. More than a sitter, but not your healer. I personally think that having a guide, an intuitive one at that, is important when exploring unknown territory. Someone who knows how to help you through the portals if you're feeling lost or confused, but is not going to cure your medical ills. Is this person a Spiritual Guide? Hrmm, not unless you have formed some kind of relationship or planned journey with them, like a psychologist, to help your sort out your relationship with Self, Ego, Society, OtherWorlds...

I think there's room to expand the roles a bit, and of course, feel free to journey on your own. In my experience, I am likely the best judge of what significance a certain vision may represent in my life, right?

You can make of things what you wish. Some people eat food to satisfy their hunger. Others seek out food for additional resons as well as that, ie because they enjoy eating.

The role of the Curandero hasn't changed, but people have their own agendas..

SKA, none of my post was a response to your words. It was entirely a response to the OP.

Alright. That explains the confusion. Sorry about that


I side very strongly with Christian about Ayahuasca Charletans.
It is because of that reason all of us should try to be our own
Shaman as best as we can. Only seek professional help of a Shaman
when you're really in deep trouble and uncapable of recovering from
it yourself. Otherwise don't waste their time. There's that and then
there is the fact that seeking a traditional Ayahuasca Shaman can put
you in the hands of charletans who mid-ceremony rob you blind.
Or you may end up drinking an ayahuasca brew with generous amounts of
Brugmansia flowers. All situations to be avoided, don't you think?

But there's so much we can do ourselves to regain & maintain Sanity & stability.
Perhaps I have been using the word Shaman very loosely, but I mean Spiritual guide.
If we can be our own intuitive, spiritual guides we can keep from harm & heal from
harm ourselves in most cases. I named that role "Shaman" because I believe that is the
basic foundation of what a Shaman is: An intuitive healer who both heals & prevents ills.
("Ills" in the broadest sense of that word: Physical & Psychological)

The reason most people are psychologically harmed is because they themselves, compulsively
self-inflict that harm. Because they live mindlessly, oblivious to the consequences of their
actions. Many people's "troubles" are really troubles they could have easily avoided.
They keep creating these "problems"for themselves, because they are ultimately cut off from
their Intuition; The only thing to tell them they are living harmfull, wreckless lives.

Being a Shaman/Spiritual guide, in essence & without specifics, might come down to
that intuitive link. Should a person contemplate behaviour before acting it out & consciously, consequently make the choices that do the least Harm & therefor not
live with the many dumb, self-created troubles that many people live with, then I
consider them to have the Talent & Aspiration of Shaman/Spiritual Guide.

They have a deeper & more constant connection with their Intuition than most people.
Because of this they steer clear of harmfull situations. They can also provide guidance
to other people, who have been living wrecklessly & mindlessly but seek to live harmless,
more mindfull lives. So there, to me at least, appears the basic role of Shaman.


The only thing that it lacks on that point is the body of knowledge that Ancient Shamanic
Traditions have built. Too bad those have been so devastated & obscured. So there's not much choice for aspiring Shamans to found new traditions & methods of psycho-spiritual healing.

Having just come from ceremonies with some Secoya shamans from Ecuador, I definitely have a lot to say on the subject, so bear with me. I agree that each of us have infinite potential to become shaman-like figures, and as long as we have good intentions and are opening people up to these experiences in a safe, loving, and responsible way, then we can absolutely be positive facilitators for people to get in touch and create harmony with the multiple dimensions of themselves and their universe.

But studying basketball, watching some games, and even playing the game for your entire life won't make you Michael Jordan. I know there are a lot of swindlers out there in the ayahuasca game today, which is unfortunate, but don't underestimate what the best of the best can do. Healing is generally a shaman's top priority, and their culture has been systematically cultivating amazing healers for thousands of years, and each healer has usually committed his or her entire life to mastering their art, so they embody a wealth of knowledge, and can harness powerful energies in a way that is probably unmatched.

But with many of these cultures dying out, it really is imperative that we create our own traditions and empower our own masters of these arts in a way that can be integrated into our society. The main shaman I worked with, "T", knows that he is the last of his tribesman to carry on their traditions to the degree that he can. A lot of his work has to do with spreading his knowledge and sharing his skills, which he does in the most genuine and loving way possible.

A big part of the struggle for many of these cultures is the fight to protect their land, which is being destroyed or taken from them at an appalling rate. Much of a shaman's understanding and power comes not just from ingesting the right chemicals, but from the relationship their people have cultivated with the plants themselves, which are rooted in the lands they've known for millennia. Ayahuasca and other intelligent plants are consciously reaching out to people to share their wisdom, but also to get help from us in keeping their homes protected, which I hope we can manage to do. And the retreat I went to is intimately involved in protecting the lands in Ecuador and helping their culture to become self-sufficient in a rapidly changing world, so some of the ayahuasca tourism actually does some good, but it's important to find the right people if you decide the traditional route is an experience you want to have.

And one last thing: yes, a shaman's role is that of a healer, but T and other masters embrace their multidimensionality and run with it, so they play many roles. If you are weak, they will heal you, and they do it in the most beautiful and effective way. If you are ignorant, there is so much they can teach you. And if you have a strong mind and body, and a pure heart, they can maximize your "trip" in so many ways. T can open up spirit worlds and allow you to explore, call in beings from space and other dimensions for you to interact with, open you up to sensations that you've never experienced, and also just entertain you and make you smile. He's the real deal. Like many others, I've romantically wanted to believe in spiritual masters of some sort, and these little jungle wizards pretty much fit the bill.

T is the most selfless, loving, happy person I've ever met, and a lot of his character comes from the special culture that created him, so it would be a blessing if we could find a way to preserve their amazing way of life in this modern world.