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Virola Calophylla Orally with an MAOI? Options
 
Neon Aurora
#1 Posted : 2/14/2013 5:50:33 AM

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I've seen some info on people taking virola resin in snuff or sublingually, but I'd like to try it orally. I can't seem to find any information on people taking it orally with an MAOI. Does anyone know anything about this?

Also worth mentioning, I've never tried DMT. I thought this may be a more mild experience to help introduce me to the realm. What do you guys think?
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nen888
#2 Posted : 2/14/2013 6:09:01 AM
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..Dennis McKenna et al 1984 did detailed analysis of the orally active Virola pastes in S. America (paper attached in this thread https://www.dmt-nexus.me...osts&t=23544&p=3 )
..the mechanism was not understood, non alkaloidal anti-oxidants were postulated..the activity is not as strong as ayahuasca or similar..they found in Virola calophylla 0.56% DMT in bark, and 0.185% in seeds..
Quote:
The failure to detect p-carbolines in all of the paste samples and the ex- tremely low levels found in two samples raises some interesting questions with regard to the postulated mechanism of oral activity of these pastes. The hallucinogenic activity of the Myristicaceous pastes almost certainly results from the high concentrations of psychotomimetic tryptamines which they contain, yet these compounds are not orally active by themselves...

Quote:
It is possible that the metabolism of DMT via the intestinal/hepatic-portal shunt may differ in important respects from its metabolism when introduced directly into the bloodstream or body cavity. In the hepatic shunt 6-hydroxylation, and/or N-oxidation, may be relatively more important than MAO as a catabolic route for the compound. In vivo metabolic studies involving i.p. or other parenteral routes of admini- stration actually shed little light on DMT metabolism following oral admini- stration. The fact is that our understanding of the peripheral metabolism
of DMT and related compounds is far from complete; all that is known for certain is that more than one type of oxidative reaction is involved. MAO may be partially responsible for the degradation of tryptamines in the peri- phery, but microsomal MFOs, which are involved in both the 6-hydroxyl and N-oxide pathways, are possibly even more important. Interestingly, if orally-administered DMT is a substrate for microsomal oxidases, then a mechanism can be proposed to explain the oral activity of some Virolu pastes, even though they lack P-carbolines and are not significantly effective as MAOI. This alternative mechanism postulates that some of the non- alkaloid constituents in the pastes may possess anti-oxidant activity and/or exhibit activity as specific inhibitors of microsomal MFOs. In the former case, presence of high concentrations of non-specific anti-oxidants could scavange a high proportion of the molecular oxygen in the vicinity, thus making less of it available as co-substrate for the microsomal enzyme cata- lyzing DMT N-oxidation and 6-hydroxylation. In the latter case, constituents in the Viroh resin may specifically inhibit hepatic microsomal MFO and thus
block the oxidation(s) of DMT caused by these enzymes.

..some flavonoids (which are not alkaloids) have strong MAOI activity, of which not as much was known back in 1984..these were not tested for AFAIK..
 
Ilex
#3 Posted : 2/14/2013 7:07:28 AM

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I found a report on Virola theiodora orally, with no additional MAOI. One traditional preparation for Virola bark is to boil it and reduce down to a resin, which is then rolled into balls and coated with alkaline ash. Swallowing a few balls apparently has a real effect. I imagine the effect would be even stronger if you added some other MAOI plant to the mix! Some people get unpleasant reactions to 5-MeO-DMT + harmalas, so proceed with caution.

Source: http://forums.lycaeum.or...8544.msg293048#msg293048

Quote:

Its a sunny Sunday afternoon. Temp in the mid 60's. Some scattered clouds.

My fiance has just left for work and our roommate is out of town for the week. I have the place to myself for at least 8 hours. Perfect.. 8-)

I've been holding on to this gram of Virola Theodora resin, waiting for the right time to present its self. Its rich in 5-MEO-DMT, but there's probably some other, lesser known actives in it too.

I've got experience with N, N DMT, but this will be my first time trying anything with 5-MEO. I have a deep respect for all psychedelic substances, but 5-MEO's reputation for extreme intensity and raw power have caused me to approach this ally with caution as well as respect. So, I have decided to try a threshold dose orally. I have a feeling I will have to spend some time getting to know it in this way before I try vaporizing it in pure form.

Half the gram is weighed out and ground into a fine powder with a mortar and pestle, and then capsulized. I hold the capsules in my hand and say a silent prayer to The ALL, that this trial will go well. I put the capsules at the base of my Shiva statue that I have on a shelf, surounded by house plants into a kind of alter, and blow my dig over them. I have no specific set of rituals for going into these things, but for whatever reason, I felt compelled to do these things before hand.

At 2pm, I swallow the caps with a glass of water, on a fairly empty stomach.( I had eggs and fried potatos for breakfast at 9am, and have had 4 Stone IPAs over the course of the day.)

A bowl is packed and I head outside to the cactus garden for some solar hits with the magnifying glass. I love a good, green solar hit! *_*

After about 15-20 minutes of hanging out with my green, spiney kids I start to notice a slightly stimulated feeling moving across my skin. Like my nerve endings are all at attention. Its pleasant. The energy is very up, and positive.

After about 45 minutes, these mild physical effects bring about a slight euphoria, but nothing really psychoactive. Over all I feel great! I'm very happy with the trial so far. I understand 5-MEO's dose range can swing drastically from person to person, so wanting to start small, I'm happy I felt anything at all. Some people report needing a gram or more to feel even threshold effects, orally.

At the hour and a half mark, I figure the peak has passed and I will just gradually return to base line. I've been sitting in the living room listening to music and just expolring the lower levels of this stuff with eyes closed. There are no visuals, I'm simply exploring the feeling.

Then, it occurs to me. As good as this feels, maybe some visuals would be a nice touch? Why not?

Up stairs I go, digging out my tiny stash of N,N DMT. I understand that when you have gained your footing with 5-MEO, that combining the two can be something special. " The Power and the Glory".

Like I said, it will take some time getting to know this one a little better before I'm willing to step into that arena, but since this intial run was going well I couldn't see the harm in taking a small hit of spice, just to add a bit of color. :-D

About 25-30 millagrams of spice is eyeballed and loaded into the pipe. I take my position in my favorite recliner. As I'm taking some deep breaths in preperation, I think about this chair I'm in. It's where I sat for my first Aya session, plus many other journeys since. Man, I have really gone some places and seen some things, all without leaving this spot! :haha:

I inhale deep and slow. 30 mill is cleared in one big lung full. As I hold it in, the marry go round begins. As I exhale, I notice a definite push. An accelerating feeling I've never had from spice before. My eyes pop open in surprise. It's nothing to heavy, just unexpected. It felt like I was going into DMT space, but at hyperspeed.

The visuals took on a different quality. Colors were all there, but they seemed to be at the edges and moving over a surface that was like ivory or mother of pearl. It had a different " texture " to it, than just DMT alone.

I could tell it was not going to take me all the way to breakthrough, but I was in heaven! It felt sooo good! I was sitting there with this huge grin on my face, eyes closed, almost white knuckling the arm rests on the chair. Pure bliss! ^_^

I was vaguely aware of time passing. This is were something interesting happened. 5 minutes is usually about how long I'm " under " with spice. After that, I'm feeling the lower effects for another 15-20 minutes and then its over.

At the 5 minute mark I was still deeply under its spell. 10 minutes passes. 15 minutes passes. I'm still " under ". I'm aware of my surroundings and everything that's going on, but with closed eyes I'm still in the Mother of Pearl, rainbow vortex room, as if I've just put the pipe down. :-o Its very pleasing, just unexpected.

I'm obviously under MAO inhibition. After around 45 min of being " in there ", the CEVs finnaly fade away, leaving me feeling very clean mentally. I was still feeling the slight push from the Virola, mixing wonderfully with the DMT after glow. Very happyancinhappy:

So, I have not looked it up yet, but I'm left to wonder. Either 5-MEO-DMT is itself a mild MAOI, or some of the other lesser known actives in the Virola resin are MAOIs. I'll research this on my own, but I thought the report might be of some use to someone, somewhere. :-)

Cheers everyone

P.S. I tried a Virola elongata extract sublingually, and the effects I got were quite similar to some of what's described above ("I start to notice a slightly stimulated feeling moving across my skin. Like my nerve endings are all at attention. Its pleasant. The energy is very up, and positive."Pleased.
 
Lumos
#4 Posted : 2/16/2013 6:57:56 PM

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Hey everyone, just prepared some Virola calophylla resin to take orally with an MAOI. Will give a report of how it went later on. Big grin
We have chosen this life for a reason, and it is our purpose to understand why.

When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced; live your life so that when you pass, the world cries and you rejoice.

Only those who are willing to go too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
 
Neon Aurora
#5 Posted : 2/16/2013 7:00:16 PM

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I'm trying it with Lumos, so I'll let everyone know how it goes from the perspective of someone who's never taken DMT. =)
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Lumos
#6 Posted : 2/16/2013 9:27:33 PM

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Well, it kind of worked, a little. It felt like something was building; but it never quite got there.
We have chosen this life for a reason, and it is our purpose to understand why.

When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced; live your life so that when you pass, the world cries and you rejoice.

Only those who are willing to go too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
 
Neon Aurora
#7 Posted : 2/16/2013 9:45:05 PM

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Yeah, only slight headspace change. We took about 2.5 grams syrian rue and 2 grams resin. I wonder if there's any reason it would work better sublingually? It seems like people are getting better results that way.
Whether you think you can or cannot, you are right.
 
 
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