More information is coming to light...
If you have a look here at post 100
CTM has some illuminating ideas.

Highly Saturated Saline and longer and warmer soaks in the mix can lead to higher yields...although acacia is still being experimented upon...

I see, this is very interesting, so is CTM saying that you should warm the solution and let it sit for 6+ hours in both the acidic and the basic parts of the extraction? i imagine something like a crock pot would be ideal here.

the only thing im concerned about in your tek cyb is the heating of glass bottles, have you ever experienced one shattering/cracking due to excessive heat? i imagine that could get quite messy if the solution is very basic at the time... :/

deadhor5, You should only need to do the acid or the base cook once, no need for both as the reaction will already be complete, but if heating the acid wash I would advise to use more acid than what is called for to get a pH of around 3. This will of course cause the need for more lye upon basification, but the more acid catalyst you put in the better. Also, use low heat for this the water should not be boiling, a crockpot set on a medium setting would be about the temp you would want to reach, maybe 65-70 degrees C.

Well you can either soak for upto a day in either Acid Or Base...the end result would be the same 'ionically speaking'...

As for the bottle...its fairly thick and I've had no problems...the heating shouldn't be excessive anyway...just hot enough bathing to 'warm' the mix...
I can only see a temperature differential 'shock' as being a catalyst to breakage...(hot > cold, quickly).
crock pot sounds good

One user of the tek...overheated dramatically and pulled a lot of gunk..so an optimum but steady heat is advisable...

excellent thank you! i need to get a ph tester >< if im working with the small amounts in cybs tek how much would i need to adjust the lye for the excess vinegar? ~5-10 grams? I really appreciate your input :]



Awesome, i was planning to try to prepare the acrb bark as thick light recommends with the acidic freezing and thawing, do you think it would be better to do a warm 24 hour acid soak instead?

If I understand it correctly the freeze/thaw is to lyse the cells...the long acid OR basing soak would do the job more efficiently...

I would replace the lye with phosphoric acid for reasons discussed in other posts, then I would just need your final pH, the amount of acid used, the concentration of the acid used, and the final volume you have when measuring the pH, plus the intended final volume of your aqueous mix and I can calculate the amount of lye you would need to achieve the correct pH. pH strips are fine to use if your dont want to buy an expensive pH meter, and dont waste your money on a cheap one because they arent worth the plastic their made out of. If you do have a good pH meter you just add the lye slowly and stir then measure the pH, and repeat this until your pH is around 12.5 to 13 or so.

The freeze/thaw is a great way to lyse the cell walls. Acid or base will do it too, but not as efficiently as freezing and thawing. The Acid or Base cook serves the more important purpose of making the DMT fully soluble in the water and helping to release it from certain other proteins or nucleic acids it may interact with, and of course the breaking apart of the proteins into their subunits.

so if im working with your tek, could i do the tek as normal until i add the base and then let that sit for 12+ hours? or would a base soak only apply if im doing an stb?

Ah excellent, so would you advise a freeze/thaw, and an acid cook? would powdering the bark cause any significant differences? these were all variables i was planning to test this weekend, but now that im getting advice fromt the mad scientist himself, id love to streamline everything to as close to perfection as possible.

Well as CTM has corrected my misunderstanding (thanks )
If you have time on your hands...you could:

*Freeze/Thaw multiple times
*Follow tek with a long acid soak.
*Make a heavy saline solution and add to the acid soak (whatever amount your bottle requires)
*Add base to 12ph or so
*Warm up and soak for a while
*Add NPS and continue...

Sounds like a plan...

I would definitely advise a freeze thaw and always powder your bark for maximum surface area. I would also absolutely advise an acid cook for as long as you can stand to let it go for. Some proteins are extremely large and the acid is required to catalyze the reaction, so the more acid, the less time will be needed, but I would ideally aim for about 8 hours at pH of 3 and 70 degrees C for your acid cook. That should be near complete seperation of the amino acids.

Well done, love brainstorming this stuff. You guys rock. Sending love isotropically(in all directions) in hopes that you both receive some.

I swear I'm gonna meet you someday and we are going to have a lot to talk about my friend. It may take me a while to get to you, but it will happen, I will make sure of it. You read my mind with this quote.

Ill start the freeze/thaws tomorow, hopefully friday morning before work i can set up all the bottles in the crock pot, then they can soak for 7 hours minimum. since im using acacia should i add the saline solution in after the base as you recommend in your tek? or is it best to do it during the acid soak?


I cant wait to see how the results turn out, and im very glad i can begin my posting on these forums by helping to contribute to your great tek cyb, and CTM, i have immense respect for you and your never ending chemical knowledge. you are a huge asset to this community.

thank you so much for the help, i cant wait to get back with my results D

As an amendment to the tek I would:

Acid soak...just covering the acacia (maybe just a bit more)

Then make a solution with distilled water and salt (say 60-70g NaCl per litre of water)
This solution will be added to the minimal acid soak and will now be the bulk of your mix.
Base can be added into this solution (solute the lye in minimal water and add)
Then continue on...

If a heated acid soak with a sufficiently low pH and at least eight hours of time is done, the extended base heat/soak should not be necessary, but it wont hurt anything. That might be beneficial, or it might be slightly deleterious to the final yields. I can think of a few scenarios that would go in either direction, but the beneficial aspects seem to be more important so I would do the eight hour acid heated bath and then do the base heated bath for another 2-4 hours or so. Some combinations of amino acids are separated more easily by base catalysis but for the most part acid is a more effective catalyst for this reaction. So definitely do the acid one, The Base heated soak is really aimed more for STB teks but lets see what you can get going this route. I have very high hopes. Even if your first few pulls show that saline saturation can reduce the yield, diluting the aqueous layer and pulling again should yield all the missing crystals. So your not risking your spice by trying this. Just don't heat the acid at too high a temperature, the DMT salt is only stable to a certain temp, and if you heat a basic mixture too high you may send some spice into the air in a gaseous state, so keep the heating moderate. I'm very excited to hear your results brother. Your providing some much needed data hear for us.

Wow, lots of progress made in my absence.

Cyb, CTM... Good to see you here! Maybe we can get to the bottom of this now.

I'm a little lost though, admittedly. Care to give me a basic outline of what the plan is?


EDIT: CTM, I just saw a post of yours about methylating NMT to DMT. While I think this isn't entirely necessary, it would be nice to add to the end of an ACRB tek. An ACRB tek formulated from the discussion here, perhaps?

My understanding is:
1. powder 50 g root bark
2. combine 180 ml of water and 80 ml of distilled white vinegar in a container of some sort, add the powdered bark.
3. Place the container in the freezer for 6-8 hours, remove and thaw, repeat.
4. pour the solution, including the powdered root bark into your extraction vessel (EV), i personally have been using tall thin 750 ml alcohol bottles for this. heat this somehow (im going to try a crock pot) for 8+ hours shaking occasionally.
5. boil 100 ml of water, add 35 g of salt and stir until dissolved, pour this saline solution into your EV
6. weigh out 55 g lye (maybe more, will be testing soon to see how much is needed), pour 200 ml of water into a separate container, slowly stir in the lye little by little. CAREFULLY add to EV.
7. add 140 ml of water to your EV. Shake. place in crock pot (or hotwater bath) let sit for at least 2 hours, shaking occasionaly
8. add 50 ml of naphtha to your EV, gently swirl and shake for 20-30 seconds, allow the layers to fully separate (keep heated throughout) repeat this shake/separate procedure 5 times total.
9. Suck out the naphtha, place in glass roasting dish. repeat steps 8 and 9 a total of 6 times.
10. place all pulls in the freezer with cling film forming an air and water tight lid. allow to sit for 12 hours minimum. ( i like to freeze the pulls in dishes of two pulls each, ex: 1st and 2nd pulls in one dish, 3rd and 4th in another, 5th and 6th in the last, this is only because i have limited freezer space though.)
11. follow the procedures outlined in cybs atb tek for the drying, scraping and recrystalization.

I will be posting an update soon with the yield results from this procedure. My hope is that it will maximize the yields people can get with acacia confusa. Cyb and CTM please correct me if i am mistaken or should add anyhting to the above procedure.