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question for those who read Carlos Castaneda books Options
 
liklyut
#1 Posted : 1/18/2013 1:08:18 AM

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hi all.

I am reading first book of Carlos Castaneda - The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge.
And I read about this smoking mixture that apparently gives a person ability to turn into a crow and fly, it is called and ally of a man. I hope you know which mixture I am talking about. I have no knowledge about a hallucinogenic mixture like that one and for some time I thought maybe Castaneda just made it up to make story richer, but there's also Peyote and Datura, which are widely known, at least amongst trippers. So I assume there might be equivalent.

If anyone knows anything about it, please share.

Thanks a lot.
Likl
 

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olympus mon
#2 Posted : 1/18/2013 1:36:10 AM

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Casteneda and his books were not only shown by outside sources to be fiction were later admitted by Casteneda his self to be fiction.

There was no Don Juan nor his magic smoke ally that causes heads to become crows.
Its all fiction packaged up as non fiction.

Aka...B.S.
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jamie
#3 Posted : 1/18/2013 1:50:39 AM

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can you provide a link to where he admitted openly that he made it all up Oly?

I think he was full of shit and numerous places claim that he made it up, that this person said they said something to him etc..but I never did read the quotes or anything that he made in person in relation to this.

It would really help because casteneda is a anthropologists nightmare.

I can basically guarantee that the guy was full of crap, and reminds me of other self obsessed occultist opportunists.

Yaqui dont even use peyote. Carlos was in mexico and did actaully meet with some Huichol people..but the actaul shaman he did meet he never ever trained under. I think it was the guys daughter when interviewed said that yes casteneda had been there and met her father but never as any sort of apprentice at all, becasue Carlos was more interesting in women and drinking.

There is other evidence that places him in a library at berkley I think at the time of many of his apparent meeting with "Don Juan".

It is likely he probly went out to the desert and ate peyote..but that is far from what he outlines in his books. There is also this whole other issue with his theft of toltec ideas.

The story behind him and the "witches" is a weird one also that seems to be just drowing in
lies and the desperation of young women the guy was able to manipulate.

I say Casteneda was nothing more than some bs'er.

yes I read his books Smile ..Then I went and studied anthropology for real and realized his books are not it.
Long live the unwoke.
 
spinCycle
#4 Posted : 1/18/2013 1:54:10 AM

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I think there is a lot of truth to be found in Castenada by reading between the lines. There are some good lessons in there, such as holding on to an awareness of Death and conserving and directing ones life energy.

As for the whole fly like a crow thing, as I remember (been a while since I read them) the main dynamic in those conversations is DJ and Castenada discussing whether or not Castenada will 'really' fly or just think he did and DJ tries to focus Castenada on thinking about what 'real' means. He never tells him that he will physically fly like a bird, in fact he mocks him for being so concerned about it. He is trying to make Castenada live within some other part of himself than his analytical and intellectual self image.

A lot of what he writes reminds me more of Taoism than anything I know about Native American spirituality, and I expect he was exposed to and referenced a lot of spiritual and shamanic systems in those books, all indirectly.

I love those books and re-read them every few years. I always find something new in there, but it never occurred to me to take what he wrote literally, and I have always been sort of amazed that anyone did.

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jamie
#5 Posted : 1/18/2013 1:58:25 AM

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"I always find something new in there, but it never occurred to me to take what he wrote literally, and I have always been sort of amazed that anyone did."

I have some origional copies from when they were published..it says right on the books that they are works of anthropology. What else do you expect people to think?

Anyone can write that crap to be honest. I could write a bunch of stuff that sounds nice and makes sense that I read elsewhere also and say I learned it from some hindu man in a cave in india while fasting for a year on a grain of rice a day or something if I want to and I am sure people would argue that there was some good stuff in there..probly becasue I would have stolen it all from other books I read in a library.
Long live the unwoke.
 
spinCycle
#6 Posted : 1/18/2013 2:05:49 AM

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Jamie, I agree with everything you say, and I am aware that he did in fact present them as actual works of genuine anthropology. What amazes me most is not that the average reader would often buy into it all literally, but that the University of Cali would let that stuff go unquestioned.

I still find them valuable books, but for Dog's sake, no one should take them literally.
Images of broken light,
Which dance before me like a million eyes,
They call me on and on...

 
SpartanII
#7 Posted : 1/18/2013 2:07:03 AM

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liklyut wrote:
hi all.

I am reading first book of Carlos Castaneda - The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge.
And I read about this smoking mixture that apparently gives a person ability to turn into a crow and fly, it is called and ally of a man. I hope you know which mixture I am talking about. I have no knowledge about a hallucinogenic mixture like that one and for some time I thought maybe Castaneda just made it up to make story richer, but there's also Peyote and Datura, which are widely known, at least amongst trippers. So I assume there might be equivalent.

If anyone knows anything about it, please share.

Thanks a lot.
Likl


Ah, the Little Smoke. I'm not sure what was in it if it existed, but I remember Castaneda stated that when he smoked it, some of the mixture was ingested also, which may have contributed to the effects. I'd think that if you wanted to make your own, the closest thing would be Changa.Thumbs up

As for the first book The Teachings of Don Juan, I found it a little hard to get into and understand at first, but it becomes much more clear as you continue the books. There's even a book called The Teachings of Don Carlos: Practical Applications of the Works of Carlos Castaneda which condenses all the practical wisdom and gives you many techniques to work with. You may want to check it out.

http://www.amazon.com/Te...plications/dp/1879181231

olympus mon wrote:
Casteneda is a BS artist and his books were not only shown by outside sources to be fiction were later admitted by Casteneda his self to be fiction.

There was no Don Juan nor his magic smoke ally that causes heads to become crows.
Its all BS.


Even if the stories are not factual, they contain a coherent system of knowledge that have real practical applications for spiritual growth. I've read all the books and can say without a doubt they have changed my life for the better. I know of many people who have benefited from them too.


 
olympus mon
#8 Posted : 1/18/2013 2:29:00 AM

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I knew pretty quickly he was full of crap. Sewing lizards eyes and mouth shut with cactus spines...give me a break.Laughing
Then anyone versed is psychedelics should know in 1 page of his trip reports that it was rubbish.
Its not fair to say its unrealistic for people to take C.C. words as truth when his books were sold and categorized as non fiction. I don't like being tricked, I don't like being fooled. I could tell he was full of shit early into the first book I read but I wouldn't expect everyone to. In fact the vast majority of his readers feel it was true. So its condescending to say that everyone should know its fiction when the book and its publisher said otherwise.

Jaime, your right I cant find a link to his direct admission of the hoax but many references to the fact the he did say was a work of fiction later.

Whether he admitted it or not there is so much evidence to his bullshit, like what you mentioned, I feel there is more than enough evidence to convict. Guilty as charged...fiction!


I am not gonna lie, shits gonna get weird!
Troubles Breaking Through? Click here.
The Art of Changa. making the perfect blend.
 
olympus mon
#9 Posted : 1/18/2013 2:38:54 AM

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SpartanII wrote:

Even if the stories are not factual, they contain a coherent system of knowledge that have real practical applications for spiritual growth. I've read all the books and can say without a doubt they have changed my life for the better. I know of many people who have benefited from them too.

Same can be said from holy texts. For many people they enrich there lives and give comfort but if the words and ideas are strong enough on their own they shouldn't need trickery to give them strength and integrity.

If a persons ideas are so life changing then why pretend and deliver them in such a disingenuous way?
I am not gonna lie, shits gonna get weird!
Troubles Breaking Through? Click here.
The Art of Changa. making the perfect blend.
 
SpartanII
#10 Posted : 1/18/2013 3:11:55 AM

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olympus mon wrote:
SpartanII wrote:

Even if the stories are not factual, they contain a coherent system of knowledge that have real practical applications for spiritual growth. I've read all the books and can say without a doubt they have changed my life for the better. I know of many people who have benefited from them too.

Same can be said from holy texts. For many people they enrich there lives and give comfort but if the words and ideas are strong enough on their own they shouldn't need trickery to give them strength and integrity.

If a persons ideas are so life changing then why pretend and deliver them in such a disingenuous way?


I'm sorry you felt tricked. I didn't get that at all, maybe because my expectations were different, or maybe I just perceived it differently. I've studied holy texts and researched many different paths, and I found this one to be much more in line with my personal experiences and beliefs.Smile It does so much more than just enrich my life and give it comfort. It's an effective frame that helps me better integrate my spiritual and psychedelic experiences.
 
jamie
#11 Posted : 1/18/2013 3:23:55 AM

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"Even if the stories are not factual, they contain a coherent system of knowledge that have real practical applications for spiritual growth"

To be honest I thought he was a cruel bastard sewing up the eyelids of live lizards etc to do his "sorcery". Sick and disturbed people do things like that. Casteneda always struck me as both.

I wonder how many other people ran out to try that? I dont really see what about his books is a coherant system of knowledge but to each their own. For me his books were interesting when I was like 19 years old before I realized how messed up and manipulative the guy seemed to be in real life and how much of what he wrote was not congruent with reality.

I am not saying there is no value at all in his books..there is some I guess. I mean I got something from them I guess..but it's far from something I would call a system of coherant knowledge or something like that. I take a look at the life the guy lived, how he treated and manipulated others around him and how he treated his wife and I just think he was a fucked up person. The guy treated the women he married like she was a pile of shit for one thing and ran off with these young little girls who he manipulated into believing he was some kind of powerful being worth worshipping, basically. Look at how these people ended up after the guy died. It was just a weird cult.
Long live the unwoke.
 
jamie
#12 Posted : 1/18/2013 3:42:32 AM

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Well..at least he gave us this..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sngt236H9yo#t=25s
Long live the unwoke.
 
SpartanII
#13 Posted : 1/18/2013 3:47:28 AM

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jamie wrote:
"Even if the stories are not factual, they contain a coherent system of knowledge that have real practical applications for spiritual growth"

To be honest I thought he was a cruel bastard sewing up the eyelids of live lizards etc to do his "sorcery". Sick and disturbed people do things like that. Casteneda always struck me as both.

I wonder how many other people ran out to try that? I dont really see what about his books is a coherant system of knowledge but to each their own. For me his books were interesting when I was like 19 years old before I realized how messed up and manipulative the guy seemed to be in real life and how much of what he wrote was not congruent with reality.

I am not saying there is no value at all in his books..there is some I guess. I mean I got something from them I guess..but it's far from something I would call a system of coherant knowledge or something like that. I take a look at the life the guy lived, how he treated and manipulated others around him and how he treated his wife and I just think he was a fucked up person. The guy treated the women he married like she was a pile of shit for one thing and ran off with these young little girls who he manipulated into believing he was some kind of powerful being worth worshipping, basically. Look at how these people ended up after the guy died. It was just a weird cult.


Sometimes it's the message, and not the messenger that's important.

I studied (and practiced) the message in it's entirety, and got a lot out of it. Thumbs up


 
olympus mon
#14 Posted : 1/18/2013 3:49:34 AM

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SpartanII wrote:
It does so much more than just enrich my life and give it comfort. It's an effective frame that helps me better integrate my spiritual and psychedelic experiences.

Wow, these books must have really been impactful for you. What exactly was so life changing about them? Not trying to be a jerk but seriously they aren't all that mind blowing. Kinda average at best IMO.

The guy was borderline cultist and treated his wives like servants. Not to mention allegations of child abuse. Its sad so many people credit this mutt for so much IMO.

Its like Dianetics for the trippers. Surprised

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jamie
#15 Posted : 1/18/2013 4:12:12 AM

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The one thing(and only thing) that stuck from his books for me was the idea that when people really know you they hold you to the idea they have of who you are..and that can be limiting for a person and hold them back. That has always made sense to me and I still believe that to be true..but again the guy read all kinds of stuff in that library when he was apparently in the sonoron desert..and I mean I think he put alot of that esoteric stuff that he read into his book. This is not really any new insight that came from him..this sort of thing is known in esoteric circles way back. I just came across it first in his work becasue I read his books right when I got into that stuff.
Long live the unwoke.
 
SpartanII
#16 Posted : 1/18/2013 4:13:15 AM

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olympus mon wrote:
SpartanII wrote:
It does so much more than just enrich my life and give it comfort. It's an effective frame that helps me better integrate my spiritual and psychedelic experiences.

Wow, these books must have really been impactful for you. What exactly was so life changing about them?


Can't really put it into words too well but I'll try.Razz

If you understand the teachings an a whole, and apply the techniques, they not only seem to speak to a deeper part of you, they simply work. I'm more at peace, more detached from emotionally energy-draining thoughts, fears, beliefs, and behaviors so that I can redirect that energy into my spiritual growth and lucid dreaming. It's living as a Peaceful Warrior so that I can tackle anything that happens in life.



 
dreamer042
#17 Posted : 1/18/2013 4:20:47 AM

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Perhaps I can clarify a few points that are often misunderstood.

The addition of "A Yaqui Way of Knowledge" to the title of the book was a move made by the publisher and quite lamented by Carlos, if you read carefully he never says that the teachings Don Juan gave him were Yaqui in origin, he says Don Juan was a Yaqui indian who had learned the ancient ways of the shamans of Mexico from his benefactor.
(Source: Authors commentary in the 30th anniversary edition of the "The Teachings of Don Juan")

Supposedly the original field notes from his anthropological work were destroyed (I forget if it was in a fire or a flood?). No one can really corroborate fully where Carlos came up with all that stuff, it's a bit of a mystery. I do suspect as Jamie said that Don Juan is a fictional character and the teachings were pieced together from a variety of sources with little authentic anthropological field work, but the fact of the matter is we don't know for sure and we likely never will.
(Source: Documentary(s) on Castaneda, IIRC it was the Enigma of a Sorcer one)

The majority of the teachings do seem to based on Toltec wisdom, which in itself seems to have some very convoluted and hard to identify origins. I think it is very likely Carlos was exposed to Toltec teachings at some point. I disagree with the assessment of his delivery of these teachings being theft because he wove them into a nice fictional novel.
(Source: The little other information I've found on Toltec wisdom, mostly the work of Don Miguel Ruiz)

When Carlos goes to the desert where "Mescalito" lives he goes to visit Don Juan's friend who is a Tarahumara Indian and his wife in the northern part of Chihuaha before they set off, it's also on this trip and in this area that he gathers the mushrooms for the little smoke. Again there are clear distinctions made in the book that these practices are not Yaqui in origin and the knowledge presented draws from the many traditional practices from around Mexico.
(Source: The Teachings of Don Juan pg 69)

The active ingredient of the little smoke is listed to be Psilocybe mexicana. The little smoke has been a topic of quite some debate since it's rather well accepted that smoking mushrooms does not yield hallucinogenic effects. Perhaps it had something to do with the other plants in the mixture? We have a few keys on this, he says that the smoke consisted of the mushrooms plus five other plants "none of which was known to have hallucinogenic properties"(a plant with yellow flowers, sage, and tobacco are all hinted at). He also makes note of the fact that he was not only inhaling but ingesting the mixture.

Quote:
"The manipulatory technique for the fourth specific purpose utilized a smoking mixture made of dried mushrooms [psilocybe mexicana] mixed with different parts of five other plants, none of which was known to have hallucinogenic properties. The rule placed the emphasis on the act of inhaling the smoke from the mixture; the teacher thus used the word humito (little smoke) to refer to the ally contained in it. But I have called this process "ingestion-inhalation" because it was a combination of ingesting first and then of inhaling. The mushrooms, because of their softness, dried into a very fine dust which was rather difficult to burn. The other ingredients turned into shreds upon drying. These shreds were incinerated in the pipe bowl while the mushroom powder, which did not burn so easily, was drawn into the mouth and ingested. Logically, the quantity of dried mushrooms ingested was larger than the quantity of shreds burned and inhaled."

(Source: The Teachings of Don Juan pg 175-176)

I still think the descriptions of the little smoke sound uncannily like dmt or salvia, and since it's listed to contain both psilocybin mushrooms and some type of "sage", I am inclined to ponder if perhaps there is not some bit of truth at the heart of the matter.

All in all, the way Castaneda lived was not certainly not in line with the model of the impeccable warrior he presented in his books. There is a lot of mystery and controversy surrounding the man and his books and we'll likely never know the truth of the matter.

The first book is a fantastic read and has had a huge influence in the lives of many many people over the years. The quality of his books seemed to diminish the more of them he wrote and later books tend to contradict the earlier ones, however there is still a lot of pertinent information to be gained from his work as others here have pointed out.

Controversy aside, it is a very important book in American literature and has had a huge impact on our culture over the last four decades or so. It may have been presented under false pretenses but it's very well written and definitely worth the read, imo.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

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Mr.Peabody
#18 Posted : 1/18/2013 5:47:59 AM

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One piece from those books still echoes with me,
'All paths lead nowhere [we all die] so walk the path of heart.'

(Not an exact quote)

It definitely bothered me to learn the books were fictional. I read the first one, and wanted so badly to believe. The part about smoking mushrooms made me cringe, though. There was no getting past that. Then, I read an older book, and realized they were fictional.

It's odd that books of such....meaning could be written by a-more or less-scum bag. It made me realize that, truth is truth, no matter who says it. It's still the truth if spoken from the mouth of God, or the mouth of the Devil. Those books have quite a bit of truth in them, veins of truth, that must be mined from the bull shit.
Be an adult only when necessary.
 
inaniel
#19 Posted : 1/18/2013 7:00:05 AM

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dreamer042 wrote:
Perhaps I can clarify a few points that are often misunderstood.

The addition of "A Yaqui Way of Knowledge" to the title of the book was a move made by the publisher and quite lamented by Carlos, if you read carefully he never says that the teachings Don Juan gave him were Yaqui in origin, he says Don Juan was a Yaqui indian who had learned the ancient ways of the shamans of Mexico from his benefactor.
(Source: Authors commentary in the 30th anniversary edition of the "The Teachings of Don Juan")

Supposedly the original field notes from his anthropological work were destroyed (I forget if it was in a fire or a flood?). No one can really corroborate fully where Carlos came up with all that stuff, it's a bit of a mystery. I do suspect as Jamie said that Don Juan is a fictional character and the teachings were pieced together from a variety of sources with little authentic anthropological field work, but the fact of the matter is we don't know for sure and we likely never will.
(Source: Documentary(s) on Castaneda, IIRC it was the Enigma of a Sorcer one)

The majority of the teachings do seem to based on Toltec wisdom, which in itself seems to have some very convoluted and hard to identify origins. I think it is very likely Carlos was exposed to Toltec teachings at some point. I disagree with the assessment of his delivery of these teachings being theft because he wove them into a nice fictional novel.
(Source: The little other information I've found on Toltec wisdom, mostly the work of Don Miguel Ruiz)

When Carlos goes to the desert where "Mescalito" lives he goes to visit Don Juan's friend who is a Tarahumara Indian and his wife in the northern part of Chihuaha before they set off, it's also on this trip and in this area that he gathers the mushrooms for the little smoke. Again there are clear distinctions made in the book that these practices are not Yaqui in origin and the knowledge presented draws from the many traditional practices from around Mexico.
(Source: The Teachings of Don Juan pg 69)

The active ingredient of the little smoke is listed to be Psilocybe mexicana. The little smoke has been a topic of quite some debate since it's rather well accepted that smoking mushrooms does not yield hallucinogenic effects. Perhaps it had something to do with the other plants in the mixture? We have a few keys on this, he says that the smoke consisted of the mushrooms plus five other plants "none of which was known to have hallucinogenic properties"(a plant with yellow flowers, sage, and tobacco are all hinted at). He also makes note of the fact that he was not only inhaling but ingesting the mixture.

Quote:
"The manipulatory technique for the fourth specific purpose utilized a smoking mixture made of dried mushrooms [psilocybe mexicana] mixed with different parts of five other plants, none of which was known to have hallucinogenic properties. The rule placed the emphasis on the act of inhaling the smoke from the mixture; the teacher thus used the word humito (little smoke) to refer to the ally contained in it. But I have called this process "ingestion-inhalation" because it was a combination of ingesting first and then of inhaling. The mushrooms, because of their softness, dried into a very fine dust which was rather difficult to burn. The other ingredients turned into shreds upon drying. These shreds were incinerated in the pipe bowl while the mushroom powder, which did not burn so easily, was drawn into the mouth and ingested. Logically, the quantity of dried mushrooms ingested was larger than the quantity of shreds burned and inhaled."

(Source: The Teachings of Don Juan pg 175-176)

I still think the descriptions of the little smoke sound uncannily like dmt or salvia, and since it's listed to contain both psilocybin mushrooms and some type of "sage", I am inclined to ponder if perhaps there is not some bit of truth at the heart of the matter.

All in all, the way Castaneda lived was not certainly not in line with the model of the impeccable warrior he presented in his books. There is a lot of mystery and controversy surrounding the man and his books and we'll likely never know the truth of the matter.

The first book is a fantastic read and has had a huge influence in the lives of many many people over the years. The quality of his books seemed to diminish the more of them he wrote and later books tend to contradict the earlier ones, however there is still a lot of pertinent information to be gained from his work as others here have pointed out.

Controversy aside, it is a very important book in American literature and has had a huge impact on our culture over the last four decades or so. It may have been presented under false pretenses but it's very well written and definitely worth the read, imo.

Well said. It seems that Castaneda is the type of person which tends to stir emotions from others on opposite sides of the spectrum. I personally quite enjoy reading his books regardless of their validity and I'm still capable of taking from them much in the same manner I would integrate a lesson from a religious text I don't necessarily adhere to, knowledge is wonderful.


On a side note, I've always found the words of Alejandro Jodowosky on the subject of Castaneda interesting; presented here for those who aren't familiar with his book 'psychomagic':


Quote:
At that time--the 70's--I [Jodorowsky] was well-known in certain ambiences for my movie "El Topo," that for some people had become a sort of reference in the matter of magical cinema. Castaneda had seen it two times, and he liked it very much.

I was in Mexico in a restaurant, where they serve delicious fillets and you can drink excellent wine. I was in the company of a Mexican actress who recognized a friend of hers at a table with a man. When Castaneda--the man was nobody else than him--heard who I was, he sent his friend to our table; the woman asked if I would like to meet him. "Of course," I answered, "I am a great fan of his!" The woman said that he would come to our table, but vice versa, I offered to go myself. . . . .

I proposed to Castaneda that we go to his hotel, but he preferred to go to mine. We seemed two orientals: we tried to surpass each other in courtesies. He insisted on putting my likings before his and I, obviously, did the same. . . . .

In Mexico it is possible to determine the social class to which a man belongs by his simple physical features. Castaneda seems a waiter. . . . . But as he speaks, he transforms himself into a king; behind every one of his words we can perceive a very vast culture. . . . .

More than a wise man, I can say he is a nice man. We became friends in an instant. He dressed with simplicity and was just at the end of a good fillet with Beaujolais for a drink. . . . . He did not resemble don Juan, but the Castaneda of his books: I found the same tune, the same voice, so to speak. . . . .

My impression is that his books have a basis of truthful experience, starting from which he elaborates and introduces concepts extrapolated from worldwide esoteric literature. Inside his books you can find Zen, the Upanishads, Tarot, dream theory. . . . . One thing is for sure: he really scours all Mexico for his researches...

I believe this character [don Juan] to be a genial invention of Castaneda who, surely, met with several Yaqui sorcerers. . . . .

In the first place, he called to inform me that he was to be early by five minutes to our appointment. I was touched by such a delicacy. Then, once he arrived, I said to him, "I don't know if you're a fool, a genius, a fake, or if you're saying the truth." He assured me that he wrote nothing else than the truth, and started to tell me an incredible story about how don Juan, with simply a stroke on his shoulders, catapulted him 25 miles. . . . . Because he was distracted by a woman passing by ... he also told me of the sexual life of don Juan, who was capable of ejaculating fifteen times in succession. On the other hand, it seems to me that Castaneda himself likes women very much. He asked me if we could do a movie together. Hollywood had offered him a lot of money, but he didn't like that don Juan would be Anthony Quinn. . . . . Suddenly, he was hit by a case of diarrhea, with his stomach aching strongly, a thing, he said to me, that never happened to him before. I myself was complaining of sharp pains to the liver and right leg. It was strange that all this started at the moment we were beginning to talk of a possible common project. . . the pain was such as to compel ourselves to drag along the floor. I sent for a taxi and accompanied him to his hotel. Then, I went to Pachita, for an operation. I insisted that Castaneda come himself to such an extraordinary woman, but he didn't. I had to stay three days in bed. Once recovered, I phoned for him at the hotel, but he was already gone. I never saw him again, life separated us. A warrior leaves no trace. . . . .He told me these don Juan stories with such an intensity. . . . . I am accustomed to theatricals, to actors, and it seemed to me that he was not a liar. A fool and a genius at the same time? . . . . His contribution has been immense: he has developed a spring of alternate knowledge, the South American source. He has revived the idea of the spiritual warrior ... he rediscovered for our times the work on lucid dreaming ... his books reveal many forgotten things. So, truth or lie, it doesn't matter. If it is a hoax, it's a sacred hoax. . . . .
 
Ufostrahlen
#20 Posted : 1/18/2013 3:26:59 PM

xอญอ†ออฬฎอ”ฬœtอฃอซอžฬŸฬฌฬฆฬฃฬŸอ‰อˆฬžฬ,องฬ†ฬ€ฬ”อฎฬอฏอฏฬกฬผฬญฬ˜ฬ™ฬœtฬอชฬฝฬฬขฬ˜ฬฌอ“อ•ฬฌsอซอ—ฬพฬšอ‹อ’ฬƒอ›อžฬขอ…ฬœฬ ฬฌฬ˜อ–ฬ อ•


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inaniel wrote:
... he also told me of the sexual life of don Juan, who was capable of ejaculating fifteen times in succession.


This is BS in its purest form. I will not argue, whether DJ is real or not, I simply don't know. But this strikes me as utter BS, if you've read the books, you will know what I mean.

Quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sngt236H9yo


Haha, hilarious. <3

My advice to the CC novices: Take nothing in these books for real. They may be fiction. Even the people who allegedly knew CC are probably making up stuff to feed their own ego. Better take some psychedelics and think for yourself.
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