What do you guys think of using the sacred vine as a morning pick me up? I notice that caapi is very palatable unlike rue to say the least. One could brew it before they slept and wake up to perhaps one of the most beautiful teas on this planet.


If a person were to do that, what kind of dosages would they be looking at? Does caapi microdose (1g? 5g?) actually have a visible effect or is it worth say brewing up 30g at a time?

It's better to microdose at night before sleep IME. I dont get much out of microdosing caapi or rue unless I can sit down and do some meditation or daydream or something. If I just microdose and go about my day it seems to be much less effective.

interesting idea id have to try out sometime to know, but if i had any kind of stressful activities or driving that day id probably hold off of it. Ive found like Jaime great experience from microdosing at night and with meditation, helps me go deeper through meditation, gives a high influence on dreams and wake up feeling great

Presently doing it at night. It works out better I guess. 10-30g at a time.

Still need a dosage ballpark estimate. But I'm wondering how to work the logistics of it, to fit it into a reasonably busy lifestyle. Can't be 3x3ing every day, hehe.

At present I'm thinking of 15g boiled 45 mins and strained. I'd drink that brew and rebrew it 3 times over consecutive days. But the tea would get weaker and weaker (not that it would really matter too much).

I have found that a couple of fresh (or dried) caapi leaves mixed in with my morning green tea greatly potentiates the stimulant effect and I do notice subtle mood enhancements even from small amounts. Any caapi or rue at night ends up in a sleepless night for me.

I have also noticed a slight drop in mood in the 3-5 day range after discontinuing this practice. It wasn't anything major, but it was certainly a noticeable rebound effect from it. I'd say less of a rebound effect than what is experienced when caffeine is given up without the headaches...

Personally...I love the flavor of caapi leaf tea, and to be honest you can actually make it quite strong if you use several leaves. I believe the leaves have other antioxidants which probably help in MAO inhibition department and I believe they have a few minor alkaloids, but I'd have to go look that up again.

All in all I think it's a very worth while practice. I have used it successfully when I knew I was going to be facing a very stressful day to help balance the old brain out and aid in helping to remain centered dring high stress states...it worked quite well.

However, after a few day's of doing this (I'd guess 5-7) I find that I am over stimulated and I need a break from it. Being a highly sensitive person I notice a tapering of the effects for a few day's before (as I mentioned) a slight depression past baseline....

I'd wager this could be a very solid medicine for depression especially if one were to slowly taper the dose at the ends.

All in my humble experience.

Peace

you guys must not be talking about microdosing..and def not with 10-30g. Im talking like 1 or 2g of caapi. You should have no problems sleeping at night with microdoses.

Why not just brew up a few hundred grams or whatever so that you can drink the amount that you want when you want instead of brewing everyday?

I've read of good results with 1 gr caapi/day, even 0.5 works. Less is more?

Does a large brew last without degrading? How would I store it?

When I brewed up rue it would grow a mould within a few days. Potency would not be affected but the brew smelt a little funkier. Tasted better though, heh.

How would 1g caapi work? What are these noticeable effects? I don't doubt it at all but I'm just not computing how something that takes over 100g to give a good psychedelic experience could be efficacious at 1g. I know of course that for example LSD-25 can be taken at 100ug for a trip yet at 10ug or or less it can be used nootropically. But that's a direct agonist on 5HT than an MAOI. So are you saying it's not the MAO effect but the direct action of harmalas themselves?

Define microdose. Many people go with a cup of coffee a day. That is not a 'microdose'. That's a dose. More along the lines of what I was saying but then if a microdose can do the same for 10x less material then who am I to complain!

The subtle effects, for me, are a noticeable improvement in mood and I feel different. It's nothing psychedelic at all, and honestly 100g caapi alone is also not typically psychedelic for me either.

I'd say just try it and see what you notice. I take my caapi leaves with green tea and the tea is potentiated and it also has some antidepressant activities on it's own. Note I would however never take a full dose of caapi with caffeinated tea. I did drink a green tea once on the come down of aya and I really regretted it. I'm quite sensitive to caffeine and stimulants in general and this made my heart start fluttering,... just an fyi.

Also I believe Oly talked about caffeine the day after a big aya session and experiencing something similar, though I don't remember what thread that was in.

Like all things related to aya and psychedelics you will have to find what works for you.

The vine does more than we know, this way it keeps continuously working on a very low level/pace.

Another positive is that one keeps in touch with the vine, like you are somewhat pre-conditioned, so the vine has a sort of a head-start. The reverse tolerance is going to work in favor here.

Damn! Thanks guys, that really puts it in perspective. I got a frame of reference to compare it to now: the subtle effect of ibogaine on the body, even months after ingestion. The petting analogy got it in one


Seeing as a gram is practically nothing, I guess I can just eat the vine whole, chew it up and so? Can I take a gram, powder it and drop it into my tea and brew it for 5 mins, leaving the powder in there as I drink?

I've developed an awesome herbal tea habit after experimenting with COX-2 inhibition (holy basil), and I'd love to just throw a dash of aya with some saffron into a tea and go about my day. Gotta get some caapi leaves too. Leaves tend to have a thousand synergist compounds for the parent alkaloid in them too, I doubt caapi is an exception.

"Does a large brew last without degrading? How would I store it?"

In the fridge...or freezer if you have a period where your not going to drink any. It can last for months in the fridge. And after a few, you can just rebrew it for a few minutes to prevent anything from forming. Rue can last this long as well...not sure why it developed mold after a few days, thats odd. i've never had that happen with rue in the fridge, even after months. But they do begin to ferment a bit so its good to rebrew them for a few minutes every month or so

as for the daily dosing thing of rue/caapi/harmalas...before bed i find that more is better when it comes to taking them before bed. even taking 60mg or more harmalas every night is very nice, if your the kind of person who can sleep on a dose like that

You could also add a bit of vodka or drinkable alcohol, in the caapi tea, in the fridge, and when you wan to use it, simply simmer and the alcohol will evaporate.

I'd love to hear more about your holy basil experiences. I assume you mean tulsi. I've found it to have a mood elevating effect but I didn't know about this cox02 inhibition.

COX2 is a pathway in the body that signals for inflammation to occur. Holy basil inhibits this pathway thereby producing many benefits including dissolution of brain fog amongst other things. I use holy basil as part of my nootropic stack, it's a good adaptogen.



When I first took it, I was fasting all day, had a huge vegetable smoothie and my nootropic stack. Suffice to say I was feeling crystal clear & energised as it was. Drank the first brewed cup. I immediately felt a riverlike current of clarity running through my veins, when it reached my mind it was as if a dark cloud that had been there for a decade or two was lifted off. Brain fog has many components to it, it seems. I had tackled all of them but even then the basil hit a part of the befogged psyche I did not even know was actually there this whole time.

The synergy with caapi is pretty cool! Well, it synergises with just about anything so go get yourself some tea and give it a go

embracethevoid if you don't mind me asking, what was your dosage on the COX2 and Holy Basil? Did you make it into a tea itself or add it to another caffeinated type?

My brain could use a little dusting

I don't follow a dosage. I just go grab some ready made Tulsi teabags from the shop and drink it every waking moment of the day. The dosage is self-regulating as one can only humanly have so many cups a day.

I use one of those pint glass tankards for my tea; so I'll wake up and immediately boil the kettle and stick 3 or 4 teabags of assorted things (green tea, tulsi, cinnamon, echinacea, gingko, etc) in the cup, pour in a pint of fresh boiling water and drink it.

In fact this is why I made this thread, mainly to understand if I could drop a few sprigs of caapi in there too. Looks like I'll have to get me some leaves.

I'll do this over and over again through the course of the day for as long as I'm home, rebrewing each set of teabags once. It's like having tea on IV drip and it kills two birds with one stone as I naturally get at least 2 litres of water a day from this alone. Can you deduce my location on Earth from this post?

mmm, Tibet?

you don't HAVE to get leaves, you could use vine.