Shroomtroll,

Abusing steroids is dangerous, expensive, illegal. Results are short lived and lifting extra heavy can damage joints, tear tendons.

I have read a lot about it, and if athletes wanna be on da juice, then its coz they are in for the big prize money. Are you gonna be in that same position?

Is it worth it, or do you not care about your health?

Apologies, but i will not speak good for something that is screaming out 'for medical use only', or damned stupid ffing pple.

Mucuna pruriens is an herb that I use to increase my HGH & Dopamine levels. It is an Ayahuasca admixture, one of my favorite herbs to date.

Ginseng can increase testosterone levels by stimulating ACTH, fueling other hormones and giving the body more fuel to produce more T.

Enjoy~

I'm going to bid you guys peace. I believe I have said everything that needs to be said on my part. Whether it is in a rather uncouth tone or not, the factual content of my statements has been ignored in favour of focus on personalisms: the "adult-parent-child" ego complex phenomenon has a beautiful example here in this thread.

In future when persons are looking over this exchange fron a neutral standpoint, preferably of one educated in both the dangers and benefits of steroids AND entheogens, they may see something to this that neither of us are at present. The ripple effect of prohibition of things creates a hidden scourge on society (e.g. krokodil) which does destroy it on a whole though people may remain unaware.


However I did not ever make this about personal sprituality, let it be known that when one person talks down in a patronising fashion to another (i.e. 'get more in tune with your inner self, son and then you'll agree with me' while supporting ignorance and injustice, I feel very strongly about that. Even stronger when it is coming from a member of a community that espouses openness, true acceptance of the selves & desires & flaws of each and every one of us, especially when the entheogen it centres on itself teaches persons to educate themselves fully, to not make comments out of a clear and evident lack of knowledge about the actual subject matter, to not be hypocritical; an evident lack of knowledge that anyone sufficiently versed in the usage of steroids will see straight through. Regarding such behaviour: the inner self I am in touch with commands me to speak truth.


I hope the unjust prohibition of entheogens by world governments is an instructive lesson in why we may perhaps refrain from forbidding things that our creator put on the Earth with purpose and use, for humanity to make use of in the best of goodly ways. To forbid such things is one of the gravest injustices man can commit and it can be known that substances have many uses beyond what may seem apparent to the limited knowledge of a person; uses that may make or break the lives of many. It is thusly unjust to forbid such things when we simply are ignorant of things that are crucial to the healthy function of many many families (e.g. iboga & addiction therapy).



Prohibition & ignorant knee-jerk reaction only fosters hatred & malice in society and throws it backwards into the dark ages. Rather we may hold all of these things in clear and open sight and educate everybody about their effects and study their pharmacology in depth, as has now begun to occur in the last decade or so. In that sense everyone may exercise their sovereign will to know of, understand and ingest substances that they may feel are good for their personal development and consequently good for the benefit of humanity in general.

What one person may see as a weapon for self-harm can to another who is more instructed in knowledge & endowed with wisdom regarding its usage as a tool for self-growth. One such example I recently found: a person can regrow knee cartilage via intra-articular growth hormone injection; a feat thought by many to be near impossible. In a state prohibiting HGH usage, such novel exploration is severely hindered and we may compare this to MDMA/LSD/cannabis psychotherapies which have been inhibited for the longest part of a century despite their clear benefits. Not everybody wishes to go through expensive & restrictive medical systems in the pursuit of their own godly health.



As regards the knowledge of things like side effects and testosterone rebound, there are many resources on the web where people with far more knowledge than anyone in this thread including myself have demonstrated the ability to nullify the supposed deletrious side effects of a steroid cycle (i.e. post cycle therapy).


Remember: it may be just your opinion but when you cast a vote, you vote with all your knowledge and also... with all your ignorance. Thus your opinion can and does directly harm or benefit the lives of countless many. It is not just your opinion. It is a weapon and a tool that can make or break, create or destroy.


To summarise: the God within may be reached from many avenues. But to be disconnected from the God Within, no entheogen on this planet will help the injustice of ignorance when a person is unwilling to let go of their egotistical projections on others, when they are unwilling to let go of their insecurities regarding certain substances, whether they are entheogens or steroids. Holding onto such injustice and ignorance is a crime worthy of judgement by the creator and I hope you will some time get in touch with your inner self and realise this.

Peace

Misquoted lies!

Embrace, you seem to have a lot of anger in you. I gave clear advice and you argued against it, throwing all kinds of accusations about, like i was purposely patronising people. TBH mate, you need to take a chill pill. You are obviously posting with an angry mind, and even worse mixing spirituality with the vain media entrenched world of steroid abuse which is very misguided, and downright dangerous, as well as ff'ing stupid.

Christian,

You may throw personalisms around but ignorance will always dissolve in the face of factual pharmacology.

As such, I can only say to you, peace.

You go on about prohibition and stuff, but no one even mentioned that. The fact is that to get any long term results from steroids means long term use, and there are simply TOO MANY bad side effects to reccomend it. How difficult is that to understand, or are you just a person who likes to argue?

Psychs on the other hand are relatively harmless in comparison. So your point is?....

I think you should just leave this thread alone chris, you obviously dont want to discuss this in any form, right now you are just repeating yourself over and over and seem very butthurt.

Anyway to play the devils advocate abit more here and clear up the intention of this thread once and for all.




First of alot of old shcool spirutual monks and other enlightened beings would probably frown at us ingesting any drug that would give us any illusion of whatever they claim to get from years of meditation and whatever other techniques they incorportate.

Also abusing psychedelics is far from harmless, i know a bunch of people who has gotten hppd and other severe psychologicak trauma from lsd, mushrooms or even cannabis.

Since we only seem to focus on side effects of abuse in here i wanted to state this, psychedelics are far from safe esp since most people who use them are far from the resonsible explorers that we find here.





Now that we covered that we can move on to the original purpose of this thread which is getting positive effects from whatever hormone manipulation technique there is avaiable at a responsible manner!!

I really like the suggestions of foods or other herbal supplements that can help boost or balance out ones hormones, this is probably the safest and best way of trying to optimise ones hormones.





I am in no way recomending anyone to do any kind of anabolic steroids for whatever reasons and like i said im not even thinking about doing it myself as far as i feel healthy and have no issues with recovering from normal training stimulus.

But and that is a big but, i feel that my body is getting burnt out with age and i can no longer train at a decent level without constant injuries or lethargy or whatever.

Then i might take a good long look at how this stuff really effects people long term at low medicinal doses and maybe give it a shot if the results seem acceptable




Im def not claiming to be an expert in any means when it comes to steroids but i can call myself educated in the field of sports science.

I havent gone to school but ive trained at an elite level for over 10years and i read alot about strength and condition, nutrition, bio mechanics and generally have a very good understanding on how and why the human body works like it does.

And the way science is going it seems alot of disseases coupled with aging is connected to hormone imbalances.

And im all for trying to find a natural way to rebalance ones hormones and i really hope that field will be studied further.





But the field of hormone therapy is getting quite big esp in the US where hormone replacement therapy , TRT etc is prescribed to alot of people, so far the effects seem promising with people getting alot healthier than other people in the same age group who doesnt "mess" with their hormones.

That is why i said i will wait untill in 10-15years and see how this turns out, if alot of the people getting therapy now is getting cancer in that timespan then we will know that you should not mess with hormones at all and that will be that.





Still alot of athletes has been on various forms of juice for alot of time and i dont see the numbers that all these people are getting cancer etc.

Sure we got the powerlifters, wwe wrestlers etc who has alot of cardiac issues but comeon now these people are taking huge amounts of this stuff for alot of years and of course that will have impacts.

I remember reading about some +60 maybe 70-ish doctor who is a strong believer in steroids for anti-aging, and he used them on himself too + the weight lifting and all, and he sure looked strong, younger and healthier. So I guess it worked for him. Would I do it? The answer would be no.

But lets think hypothetically for a moment. As you say Shroomtroll, you are now in your twenties and it would take, what? 15 to 20 years before you might need steroids or whatnots to keep up, right? Now if science and medicines keep advancing the same rate they do now, who knows what they will have to offer in 20 years? Plenty of time for scientists to work out the kinks.

In my opinion, steroids, HGH etc. as they are now, dont sound like worth the risks, but maybe in the near future, who knows?

passion flower and chammomile both contain higher levels or aromatase inhibators..so consuming them on a daily basis will help to stop the aromatization of the hormones in the body..I think some cruciferous vegetables are good methyl donars but I dunno for sure. I have heard MSM can even be good for that.

I know lots of people claim deer antler velvet is really strong for increasing hormone levels so thats the way I would go personally. Native Americans have been doing it that way for a long time..it is good to make sure you have enough aromatase inhibators etc in the diet. You dont want estrodiol etc floating around inside you.

Obviousily it is essential to eat cholesterol if you want decent hormone levels. I am sure you already know this.

It is important to keep one thing in mind.

Hormones should be used as a last line of attack, as the cherry on top. There is a phenomenon which is commonplace amongst naive kids. They'll inject testosterone into their asses but they don't eat and keep a crappy lifting routine. As a result you get a lot of guys who have ran several cycles yet they look like they have never step foot in a gym in their lives.


Then to slow down aging & reverse degeneration, the very same applies. If you use hormones to cover up a defective diet then there is little point. Because the net overall imbalance you introduce to your body is going to throw it into more chaos, not less. When we manipulate bodily systems we need to induce a kind of controlled chaos, a decisive imbalance which we carefully manipulate. Any chink in your armour is a wide open entry for death. So for example you might be using HGH to keep your tendons sharpish. But what if you're not stretching regularly, getting your collagen/MSM, getting your vitamins and eating like crap? Then the hormones are lost. It boils down to one philosophy: don't use exogenous ingredients to seek mediocrity.

Become great of your own accord, reach your maximum potential both bodily and in knowledge, and then use exogenous things to become superhuman (e.g. all the old school BB legends like Arnie). You can take drugs to cover up character flaws yet those very same drugs can be used to throw you into ecstasies that a flawless character could not reach alone.


Also keep in mind that there are no natural testosterone boosters that will support any vague level of increased muscle mass beyond your natural limit. As far as I know D-Aspartic Acid is the only one that has been proven to do stuff. Even that won't do it in the long run. The important thing is an average test level; all these herbs & foods will not really push it anything worth talking about as regards muscle mass. However they will definitely keep your drive and determination up, which of course is more than enough reason to eat them.



It seems that people need to get their delusions about steroids broken. Steroids are not just used in higher athletic circles. Steroids are EVERYWHERE. The Olympics are a shameless facade of a drug-induced performance exposition. An outward pretence of natural competition, an inward reality of needles going into butts left and right. If snooker was an olympic sport, the players would be on 2g test a week. The chemists are always conveniently one step ahead of the drug testers.

Everyone and their dog is juicing to keep up with the Jones'. I love shattering people's illusions about the whole thing, not least after mine were shattered in very much the same way. To take the red pill of knowledge feels great. This facade is idiotic. Those of us who are natural will never keep up with users of P.E.D. and to maintain this farcical bullshit is disheartening. As a natural athlete you could give it your all and 10% on top and yet you'd feel like you were genetically defective, as that other dude is chomping down fast food all day long yet outsprinting you silly.



It does more harm than good to pretend steroids do not exist, ironically the most harm is to natural athletes. Natural BB competitions are rife with juicers because the air of taboo & disquiet is fertile for such dishonesty. Also, it makes for great advertisement: "Look how 1 scoop of Testostadroldurabotren Force Activator Prima XoX made our athlete build 250lbs of 100% natural lean ripped mass in just 6 DAYS! (insert before picture of Auschwitz escapee, after picture of Arnie in his prime)".


Check out the 100m sprint record progression over the last century. In 3 generations humans did not suddenly evolve NOS boosters for their legs. We did learn a thing or two about biochemistry though.




Also, I do believe that irrespective of how realised a being is, they should refrain from talking about things they don't know of; "I know something you don't therefore I know about everything you don't and also everything I don't". You don't hear much about Zen monks on the subject of molecular genetics so perhaps they should maintain their regal silence when it comes to entheogens too instead of pretending that self-realisation gives you the ability to open your mouth about things you've never actually experienced as a human being.


Anyway, not everyone wants to live long, not everyone cares. For some, it's a case of full YOLO in one's youth. I much prefer the story of Li Ching Yuen though, that seems much more like the way to go. Supposedly he lived 250 odd years. Without HGH in the mix. The wonders of Taoist living, collecting herbs and practising Qi Gong. If you are looking for longevity & flexibility & good tendons well into old age, then practice things like Qi Gong and yoga. 80 years of Qi Gong goes a long way to say the least. Throw in some HGH for good luck.

3 days and nobody reported from his personal steroid use... I would use steroids, too, if it's prescribed by a doctor. Just to see, how it affects me. And if it's doing me good, why not stay on it?

Imagine this thread on a BB-site, where a person asks for help regarding psychedelics. Of course the majority who never took psychedelics will say: Man, leave acid and shrooms alone. It'll make you insane and you'll become a goddamn hippy.

Ufostrahlen, as we already pointed out: the steroids/psychedelic analogy is ridiculous and makes no sense. They are to completely different things.

I guess that is great advice for anyone wanting to be the next 'superhero', 'master of their universe', etc. BUT...

And it's a big but, i ask WHY?

Who are you to think you are your best. According to who? If you feel you need to lift the heaviest weights and run the best speeds, i ask, aren't you being a bit tough on yourself? If you were really spiritual you'd realise that whatever bodybuilding greatness you achieved, that it's a pityful expression of the beautiful and amazing person who you really are. To think of all the time you spent trying to achieve greatness, scaring away people with your 'mean' workouts and musclemag fed nutty routines, when all along you were the mosy beautiful diamond essense. Several years later the man who got a few medals, and was voted mister badass musclemass dies from a heart attack all alone, as his selfish lifelong quest for 'perfection' drove his friends and past loves into the background, as he lived a life of utter and complete obsession and trying to be 'better' than the rest. YAWN!

They are completely different things, indeed. Steroids are used for building up muscles, psychedelics are used for exploring the mind. However the mindset of ppl advocating these substances is the same.

The mindset can be described in the following way:



People need to open their minds and get rid of stereotypes. I highly regard cold hard facts from people who used both substances for years and can speak from experience. Hearsay isn't very useful.

Edit: to shatter more of the so called reality, here's a nice video. This guy is a vegetarian for a long time and now turned to vegan. Because of ethical reasons He's by the way Strongmen champion of Germany.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFLx7vjPoTo

Yo!

I'll send you a shovel. ufo, so you can start digging up the bodies of them steroid users and let them tell ya just how great their muscles looked before they died on stage after years of painful training. As for the trippers, you'll find them at most amazing trippy parties all over the world derssed in colourful clothes with sexy girls and hughe smiles on their faces!

Ufostrahlen: If you go on BB forums, you may notice that they are actually extremely open to spiritual growth and openly discuss entheogens, only the minority heckle in that fashion. Ironically they have displayed far more openness and understanding of what is unknown to them than displayed in this thread. It's hilarious watching sterotypical meatheads juiced to the gills absolutely styling on entheogen users re: dissolution of delusions.

universecannon, let's E-Prime your statement:



A little lesson on the human brain: it has three evolutionary layers each built on its predecessor. The most visceral part responding to instinct & regulating basic biological drives, the mammalian emotional aspect and the newest one, the neocortex. Are you aware that when you do not actually form an argument about anything and instead resort to knee-jerk statements that your neocortex is atrophying?



Let me ask you a few questions:
1.) Do you lift? If so, what is your routine and diet like?
2.) What do you actually know about steroids? Without googling, what are these things and what do they do: trenbolone, anavar, winstrol, dianabol?

Let's make an analogy. We're talking now, to a person who's commenting about entheogens and saying similar things as you are. The questions I'd ask them:
1.) Do you meditate? If so, what practices do you follow and how often do you practice them?
2.) What do you actually know about entheogens? Without googling, tell me what DMT, LSD, mescaline, 5-MeO-DMT are.

The response to these questions is a sufficient gauge of how much genuine authority a person actually has, as to whether they are talking from a fear-conditioned media generated perception while deluding themselves into thinking they are egoless or whether they are imbued with wisdom and talking from a point of genuine concern and harm prevention.


To me, substances are substances. I do not hold DMT any more sacred than methamphetamine, or even a crude concoction of desomorphine (Krokodil). The entire substance (energy/'satcitananda' is sacred to me, it is one, indivisible and absolute. To myself, the body is a flesh computer, and spirit is the information contained in that flesh. Manipulating this flesh is done in much the same fashion as manipulating an automobile with a built in computer, except using equally fleshy tools.

Lol. Before attending such parties, better read your Tim Leary again:

A warning is in order. Many five-brained Hippies and Yogis are the most vehement opponents of extra-terrestrial evolution. They use three bland sets of criteria to resist practical plans for interstellar migration:

[..]

Return to nature. Back to the paleolithic! Simplify, avoid technology, stalk the wild asparagus, rely on body wisdom, organic purity, sensory pleasure.

[..]

http://deoxy.org/8_larvals.htm

Thanks for the warning Tim, I still fall for the idea users of psychedelics have open minds.

Well, haven't been on one in while. Depends on the forum, I guess. But good to hear that the mindset is changing.

lol psychedelics and steroids are not the same things. Lets stop making up these rediculous analogies. Anyone who has to resort to that to make a point here must not really have much of a point, nor an understanding of the subject.

This thread is just going in circles. Cant you guys just discuss things normally? For real, what is wrong with you people?

It's either steroids are bad, or steroids are just like psychedelics? Wtf? Get a life. Things are more complex than that in the real world

I don't think anybody is saying that steroids are like psychedelics. Personally I'm comparing how people who are drug-naive respond in discussions about them to people who are steroid-naive and discussing steroids.

It was never about the substances but about how a person approaches what they don't know, and whether they humbly hold off judgement until they know or jump to a given conclusion based on their own experiences.

Just because you hold a given view and perhaps have the power to close a thread/edit posts does not make you an actual authority on substances themselves. I hope you're going to at least let us discuss these things in peace. If even on an entheogen forum the concept of taboo cannot be escaped in search for truth, then where? What is "normal"? Is there a need to control the natural flow of discourse to one befitting your ideals of normality?