^..thank you for that perspective acacian..

.hey all, still a bit busy in nature and work, but have updated the thread INDEX on p.1 up to p57..i'll try and sort the messy code next..!
and a few species lists need addition too..
the thing about rearranging this thread into a pdf is that, at this length, it becomes editing a book!..so, i'll shortly begin a discussion group for the House of the Book of the Acacia..

..few typos to fix still too..
on nomenclature of a couple of species..as mentioned i am now following L. Pedley et al and regarding Acacia sophorae as it's own species, not a sub-variety of longifolia..one reason - very little evidence of hybrids between so-called sub-species..also, different chemical profiles in a range of compounds incl. flavonoids (Murray et al.) and oils..
..and secondly i do think, as do some Israeli botanists, that Acacia raddiana deserves it's own status distinct from A. tortillis, rather than subspecies..this accords with it's judeo-christian spiritual significance..see p54

for now i will be still calling species recently renamed in c. America Vachellia and in Africa Senegalia 'Acacias' , simply to avoid confusion at this stage..i wlll, however start to use the name Faidherbia albida along with A. albida, as this is widely adopted..
Anna Tree with two 'n's the better old name spelling i feel..


..want to congratulate Borris again on the A. leiocalyx result..and, Spice Sailor..still anticipating your excellent news from last year..! great recent work also by WAGE, and the ever illusive Seldom
also big thanks to timeloop for the mabellae revelation, and all the great tangential threaders who post with the spirit..
and acacian..just focus on one thing mate! haha..
last up, gonna start looking at southern California acacias more following a chat with a1pha..it's certainly a climate suited to the genus..
.

finally, i do get a bit frustrated at not being able to orally discuss things..am moving in that direction as well..

and, i did notice something after december 22nd 2012..a path forward, and a subtle kind of light ever-more noticeable in all directions..wisdom closer..and, of course, a surge in tree consciousness..

and [thanks F.C.] as the recently published lovely little book The Miracle of Trees by Olavi Huikari tells us in chapter one 'Getting to know your cousins': we share 50% of our DNA with trees..
.

..it's worth having more of a look at Acacia leiocalyx, as it is very common in Qld, and n. NSW Australia..and two tryptamine results so far have been good, with good yields..sub species leiocalyx is the tested and more common variety, whereas subsp. herveyensis, also in Qld, has narrower, longer and slightly more pliable phyllodes..

pictured below, 2 of A. leiocalyx subsp. leiocalyx and then 1 of Acacia leiocalyx subsp. herveyensis |

..alright, p.1 INDEX cleaned-up..
..i spotted an A. leiocalyx subsp. leiocalyx on a road corner yesterday which i'd seen years ago and forgotten about..it's widely dispersed in the top eastern half of NSW as well as Qld, Aus..and is widely grown in mainstream horticulture..
in terms of how common, a lot more than poor ol' obtusifolia..and we have Acacia concurrens as well, which, while not as widespread as leiocalyx, is, like it, very common along roadsides, highways etc..pruning of branches is seasonally done by councils (often viscously) to maintain road edges [..in the name of research i would suggest that occasional branch from public roadside is the sustainable model..still, something never felt quite right to me touching a plant i didn't grow myself..the modest patience required in garden, indoor, or regeneration growing is worth the karmic reward as well as the alkaloids!..]

..Acacia concurrens has sparser/more open flower heads than than leiocalyx, as well as less thick phyllodes with more prominent longitudinal 'concurrent' veins, and slightly different pod-shape..

..after a chat with an old acacia researcher, i can say there have been 2 positive tryptamine results from A. concurrens..one a number of years ago n.e. nsw, (but species not identified at time), as well as the report by Seldom, indicating multiple bioassays..
and if Spice Sailor turns up we'll have a confirmed 3rd +ve DMT (assumed) result for A. leiocalyx.
images attached: two of A. concurrens;
and then it's very close central north Qld relative (in the 'concurrens complex' ) Acacia longispicata (with, if you guessed, longer spikes)

..another reason for starting this thread was to not only take the matter beyond the hands of the 'authorities', but out of the hands of the exploitive - dealers..and in to the hands of the ordinary and well intended people..

oh, and spiritual matters..
.

Great info Nen,

During exploration of this complex an observation was made and please excuse me here if the following theme is done to death.

Phyllodes from the same sample trees were subjectively tested over 3 sequential days (at night) for 'bitter taste'.


Day 1) *Slightly bitter* - [25 deg celcius fair]
Day 2) *Devoid of any noticeable taste* with multiple subjects - [overcast light rain]
Day 3) *Extremely bitter* - [Scorcher @ 37 deg celcius uv index very high]

If the age old correlation with desired content is at all true then this 24 hour turnaround would surely create havoc in results. especially to those who don't employ subtlety in observations. Perhaps Acacia are inherently like women; moody and only give it up sometimes. :S

awesome borris thanks for the experimentation! I've noticed better yields during heat with the partiular species I use.. hehe and an interesting analogy there....then over west you got the pointy sharp male vibed acuminata who constantly wants to get it on.. morning noon or night.. summer winter autumn or spring

ok thats enough from me.. apologies to the more feminine trees

Borris wrote:
.. yeah i think you're close Borris..! although i personally also find a few species more masculine (like acacian's 'favourite' ) ..certainly season is a major factor for many, however from going through all known literature on findings of apparently endogenous DMT (& NMT/bufotenine) in humans (blood, urine), it seems that not all humans contain DMT at all times..[see https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40014 & thanks Shaolin]..a bit like many trees..and again no one has the faintest idea why..
theoretically, then, a minority of humans and trees (for whatever reasons) would contain DMT most of the time..

also, getting back to Borris's observations, metabolism in trees can be very fast..so yes, tryptamines could move from, say, roots to stem to phyllodes in a day or two in theory..

like people you can meet a tree on a good day or bad day (relatively speaking)..

its funny you say that nen I've always got a feminine vibe and spirit off of that tree. Man not happy today someone of great evil poisoned a good 200 corella parrots in armidale lastnight. they've been dropping dead all round town

^..i guess technically Acacias are both female and male..i describe as 'feminine' the more unruly ones..

as for evil parrot poisoning..goodness there are some awful human beings around!
birds, trees, other people..they don't care..
we can only hope evolution eventually breeds out such undesirable characteristics..
where's phyllode? she can put a curse on someone from a distance..really! i'd approve the full weight of the law on the armidale bird killer..

Corella feeding on Acacia fimbriata seed:

King parrot feeding on Acacia baileyana seed:

well... the situation seemed bad.. but it wasn't until i went and found one dying in the park that it really hit home in a very real manner. fucking disgusting. whoever did this is sick and needs some intense karma.. like..really intense karma ... a bird seed mix was found scattered around the parks they reckon someone added poison to it
i don't know what to say feeling very angry about it.

^..the birds are forced nearer to human settlement as 80-90% of their natural habitat has been altered/wiped out..
incidentally, i'm not sure that that is A. fimbriata the corella's in in the photo..it's in Brisbane anyway..
........................................

..on the recent history of use of acacia in conjunction with MAOIs in oral brews, i feel there should be some clarification..

..the first recorded instance was in 1992 by JG, in which a spoon of p. harmala was downed neat with water, and chased with A. phlebophylla..1 or 2 others tried this..experiment reported in J. Ott's "Ayahuasca Analogues"..
the 2nd known instance was in jan 1993 when this avatar swallowed a teaspoon and a half of ground harmala seeds, followed by A. maidenii freebase extract, leading to profound and strong effects..
continuing experimentation was done by this author and a couple of ladies of the fallen leaves ( and friends) into the 'ayahuasca'-style use of boiled acacia phyllode with rue or capii from 1994-9 and onwards..useful healing and preparation techniques were developed..between 1995-8 approximately 40-60 people successfully, to differing degrees, safely experimented with oral acacia treatment with maoi plants..
A. phlebophylla, maidenii, and floribunda were the nominal species, others being often too astringent for most to stomach for long or at all..one or two other small groups experimented..
the safety of ingestion of different acacia species for medicinal purposes is as complex and varied as the genus itself..as they say - seek known trustworthy advice..

..it is hoped such knowledge will filter into the community for healing, and this is gradually happening..but the past decade has seen setbacks and lack of understanding of such knowledge..the rise in attention towards dmt c.2000 onwards was interwoven with murky aspects of the culture..
the more 'sacred' aspects of trees were often ignored, and law enforcement became interested..
there was the appearance of (often) fairly inexperienced quasi-ritual ayahuasca circles, based partly on the amazonian model (often partly for profiteering), usually using s. american style brews..and safety has been compromised, as well as in a few cases ethics..a respected true 'ayahuasquero' has trained for 7 or more years before leading ritual..
an afternote, it is suggested the would-be experimentor try pharmahusca prepartions (i.e with extract) if unsure what else is in the plant (which will be the majority of cases)
..i feel this partly fashion orientated focus on ayahuasca and south america is slightly out of place in the acacia research world (respect to the vine though! )..see image & point below..there's many 'shamanic' ways out there..
.

lastly, i was accosted in the street the other day and strongly urged to say the following..
this person, a veteran of the australian circles, insists that the first introduction of the smoking of extracted dmt on dried caapi leaf (now commonly known as 'Changa' ) was by Johathan Ott whilst in australia ..this was due to being asked by a local what to do with an acacia extract which remained an oil..however, my insistent source agrees that chocobeastie , an early pioneer, came up with the name 'changa' ..
phew! i'm staying out of it now..good on All you pioneers..!

coming soon: some interesting insights on psychoactive acacia flowers..

..the south american equivalent of acacia is, of course, yopo, of which at least one kind of acacia (A. polyphylla) is used in the same manner (and locally called a 'mimosa' )
below, anadenanthera colubrina 'Vilca' or 'Cebil', in Bolivia..genus diverged from common ancestor with acacia some point in the past..

..ok Psychoactive Acacia Flowers part I

thanks to WAGE for reminding me of this one:

from THE YELLOW PIGMENTS OF AUSTRALIAN ACACIAS.
BY James Matthew Petrie. From the Physiological Laboratory of the University of Sydney.
(Received July29th,1924.)

A. longifolia flowers contained the MAO inhibiting flavonoid Kaempferol, also found in Gingko biloba, P. caerulea, P. incarnata, & Tilia americana var. mexicana (linden flowers) ..see Passifloras of Interest thread..
the 1924 extraction method was:

..bespoken flowers below:

Psychoactive Acacia Flowers part II

..a great ethnobotanic paper here which i'll give some quotes from..
"Psychotropic or ritual use of Acacia flowers prior to abandonment of a prehistoric Mimbres-Mogollon archeological site" [in New Mexico]
[The Internet Journal of Biological Anthropology ISSN: 1939-4594; Michael W. Pendleton Anthropology Ph. D. & Bonnie B. Pendleton Entomology Ph. D., West Texas A&M University, Canyon, TX USA]



pictures: Acacia gregii flowers, and Acacia constricta pollen polyad (southern USA)

^^^Fascinating nen! Always full of information. I've been in touch with A.greggi a bit lately.
First one has a white sage under it. Lots of ephedra around the area as well. Your above excerpt certainly makes me wonder about psychoactive use by the indigenous inhabitants, lots of pottery/flint shards/morteros around that land.

..great photos and hi cave paintings.. ..it's interesting how different kinds of psychoactive plants are often found growing together in nature..hand of nature or human encouragement?

..and worth emphasising that finding of Native American use of Acacia flowers in ritual..and above mention of 'sedative' effects of ingestion of A. angustissima, which also has Aztec ritual usage..look forward to more insights from the USA..

..Acacia is like a 'total' tree..(mesquite too) ..you can build with it, eat it, treat diseases, heal the soil, and seek visions..and in every culture where they have grown they have ancient spiral significance..they are implicated at the root of judeo-christian religion, and held with reverence in the vedas..over the next year i (well, nen as such) hope to present some talks in various regions on the history and cultural significance of acacias..it is such a big subject, and oral tradition has some advantages..

it's also worth noting that there is evidence that the smoking of dmt plants may be quite ancient..there are prehistoric Andean burial sites where mummified shamans were found along with Cebil seeds and pipes indicating they were smoked..[Torres & Repke] and as mentioned earlier, egyptian alchemical knowledge would not have found some kind of basic extraction/separation procedure difficult..and we know they smoked sacred substances in temples surrounded by sacred acacias..no harmala required..
all of this, and more, will be expanded on in the future..
along with the significance and potential of NMT, and beta-carbolines in acacias..

images attached: petroglyph art from Nan Ranch Ruin, New Mexico (site of millenium old acacia flower use); and then some interesting hieroglyphs from karnak, egypt..
.

I'm sure some folks were doing these brews in the late 80's too... but were not so vocal about it. I will ask them when I see them next!



well, you know what they say about opinions... overall, it is what it is. There has been much learning and development over the last decade Nen, a lot of drama, but do not discount the development of culture in Australia that has not come without a lot of assorted difficulty. The Entheogenesis conferences for example is something to be proud of, symbolic of quite an evolved community and culture, of which equivalents do not really exist in any other country.

I do feel that Syrian Rue and Acacia is a great way to take a brew, which really brings out the Acacia admixture. The vine itself and the crazy and wacky South American culture it brings with it, I too feel has often been overstated.

If you were to go to other countries and see the level of outright charlatanism and crazy bullshit that goes on, perhaps you would see Australia's scene in more of a favourable light!



I don't doubt Ott smoked DMT infused into caapi leaf, but people in the local area didn't keep creating this blend. (certainly you or I never across it or even heard it existed, till now) Ott certainly never mentioned this to me or anyone when he was given Changa when he came to Australia in January 2005. He was also *VERY* skeptical when we told him the caapi extended the duration.

Part of the inspiration for Changa was reading about DMT being infused in Parsley at 10% DMT in Ott's book "Pharmacotheon". Making a 50% blend with just Caapi I considered incomplete and not such a big deal.

Changa was only really born when other admixture herbs were added and the ratio of DMT was brought right down to 20-25% and we realised that A) the caapi strengthened and extended the duration of the journey B) that the admixture herbs were activated by the caapi as well. C) that this was a MUCH more accessible way to smoke DMT and that this blend often had miraculous healing powers which we largely attributed to the presence of the Ayahuasca spirit.

And perhaps, the most significant aspect to it at the time, was that people could experience that DMT didn't always have to be smoked as a crystal that is tricky to smoke and often intense to smoke at breakthrough dosages. That they could go with light doses of DMT, which work well as 20-25% DMT Changa; but it can be more cumbersome and often wasteful to smoke Crystal DMT in light doses through a crack pipe, bong or sprinkled in a joint.

In some parts of the world, Changa is largely only 50% DMT +, but I'm sure the pendulum will swing back around, when many people realise that their mom and pop can smoke this and get a lot out it, but especially when it is at something more like 20-25% DMT.

thanks for the info there Chochobeastie.. that was a good read

I really need to find some caapi leaf... i have rue extract at home but I would rather use the sacred vine which I only got to use a couple times in blends in lower ratios. I've also made some really nice blends out of native acacia phyllodes.. mearnsii, baileyana, decurrans dealbata and other bippinnate species seem to be a really nice smoke. a favourite I made a while back was with mearnsii and baileyana phyllodes, a small amount of mullein and caapi vine

what woudl you say is your favourite blend if you could pick one?

below, a small intimate little event we threw the other night out at a spot we used to party at.. i did not realise until going out there the other day that the dj booth was actually in a giant acacia... looked a lotlike maidenii though the phyllodes had a rough kind of sandpapery texture.. oh.. and the tree is fine I was worried when I first went out there because some of the branches were dead, but I went for a walk around the area and all the other trees had the same style growth.





we called it "maidenight"

..chocobeastie..i relay what people say, or claim, and let others argue about it..thanks for your input!
i was made aware via a well-known character of J. Ott c.2005 with dmt-infused leaf (perhaps not caapi) so i don't know what's going on there!..he certainly had an incling that NMT extended the duration..

incidentally, 'Changa' is a name used for a long time by a number of indigenous tribes in Peru for a snuff which uses B. caapi and either an anadenanthera or 'mimosa'..[first-hand info]

..while yes, people may have tried brews prior to 1992 (there is an anecdotal report of a german ethnobotanist drinking A. phlebophylla in the late 80s) i said the first recorded instance..this thread is to try and clear up hearsay and present as reliable or verifiable information as possible..it's the less 'quiet' who've allowed pretty much everyone here to be aware of this miracle of nature..


..i don't disagree..there are some great people in australia! ..it's bringing clear and un-murky awareness of knowledge is this thread's aim..information from such conferences unfortunately was used by undesirables for self-agrandisment..this thread also reflects politics..i am canvassed by various sides of debates frequently..i try to stay in the middle, however there was a huge outcry over tree damage and un-environmentally friendly practice in the past decade..it seems those who are more sensitive to these issues have been less vocal/represented in internet lore until fairly recently..
but the researchers are great..Snu Voogelbreinder wrote the encyclopedia! and many quiet spiritual types..

Quote:

If you were to go to other countries and see the level of outright charlatanism and crazy bullshit that goes on, perhaps you would see Australia's scene in more of a favourable light!

..i see the Acacian-thing is fairly global now..it's what australians are missing out i post for..the sheer Love and uniqueness of the acacia..! i do travel you know choco btw..
..but, yes, the rise of Ayahuasca Tourism in South America has had some negative consequences..last year there were several murders, and quite a few rapes, by bogus 'shamans' offering tourists 'medicine'..it's the same story everywhere, a few (often poor) genuine healers vs those who reflect the worst aspects of modern greed..conquistadors in the garden!
..and, ok here we go, my constant emphasis on safety (in australia) is because of evidence presented to me of a death in such circumstances a year ago..yes (due to unsupervised accident) ..this is not good for anyone, let alone the 'scene'..this is why i, and another here, get so full on at times..it's about the life and well-being of humans and trees..not just ammassing lots of knowledge in dmt-matters!

be well choco..and thanks for the insider 'changa' perspective
.

..ok, for a1pha starting to soak in the beams of Southern Californian Acacias (of potential interest)
of USA native southern desert Acacias:

..records of very southern acacias are sparse, but there's a possibility that growing in the extreme south Ca. is Acacia pringeli californica synon. Acacia californica synon. Vachellia californica (Brandegee), which is found in the Sonoran desert and far northern mexico..no known tests..{edit: see more info next page}
in Arizona and other southern desert areas there is Acacia millefolia (S. Watson) 'Santa Rica Acacia' or 'Fern Leaf Acacia'..recorded california..again no known chemical tests..
and Acacia neovernicosa, found western Arizona to Texas, and Sierra Gorda, Mexico..

..i'm still investigating any known indigenous ethnobotany of these species..

and count the chemical tests on one finger..!

(that finger being tentative PEAs in) a common native of Cali, our recent friend Acacia gregii (also Nevada, Arizona) 'Cat-Claw Acacia'
a tree really in need of more research phytochemically..

first pic was captioned 'The Phainopepla bird in particular is drawn to A. Greggii.';
then 2 a piece of Acacia californica , Acacia millefolia, and Acacia neovernicosa..
and last up, A. longifolia (australian immigrant) in Santa Monica..been californicating like wild there..!

..i think i'm gonna have to retire a while to focus on face to face discussion and spiritual matters..that's where the issues discussed in the post on aus/safey etc lead me..keep that info and joy comin in acacians all..! much information there already is..

just thought I'd share a cute little poem I read about acacia baileyana by Francis Duggan:

The Cootamundra Wattle

The Cootamundra wattle the commonest of trees
They sucker all around the place and multiply like bees
In scrubland and steep gullies, in paddocks brown and bare
And in urban parks and gardens, you see them everywhere.

'Acacia Baileyana' their species Latin name
And botanists and arboriculturalist and other tree experts claim
That though native to Australia they grow too easily
And that they outgrow and outcompete rarer breeds of native tree

On frosty August morning the paddock looking gray
But Cottamundra wattled helped them brighten up the day
They bloom when growth is dormant on Winter's coldest hours
The Cootamundra wattle laden with yellow flowers.

Once indigenous to Cootamundra till introduced down south
And the wattles then took over and found their way about
They can grow on the poorest soils resistant to disease
The Cootamundra wattle is the hardiest of trees.
On cold days of winter great beauty they display
But a weed in their own country the experts on trees say
The Cootamundra wattles you see them everywhere
In urban parks and gardens and paddocks brown and bare.