rising spirit, I hope this isn't considered a derail, but any thoughts on the white out bliss experiences which are not accompanied by a sense of presence or divinity?

Sorry about the long gap in my response to your comment, ragabr. And no, your question is not at all a derail, it is a perfectly reasonable query to raise. That being said, I must confess that any reply I offer, is born of my own direct experiences and I don't presuppose that every other soul in this universe would share complete symmetry within every detail of it's transmission. Only a fool or an ass would have this type of inflexible mental stance.

IMO, it is not a 'whiteout' unless it is accompanied by the overpowering vision of the light. Hence, the term enlightenment. This, more than anything, is what distinguishes it from a blackout. It is not a type of unconsciousness, it is a non-dual state of supraconsciousness. In classic terms of definition, it occurs when the psyche becomes infused and engulfed by the blinding light of the Indivisible Spirit. It might also be labeled the Light of Infinity, for it's brilliance dissolves all differences and unites our awareness within it's frequency of sublime vibration.

Such an immersion shatters our conditioned modality of mental focus and allows for the pure experience of awareness. The accompanying vision of the white light, is more than an optical perception, it is a profound degree of understanding. An understanding of the Omniscience of all being. This is what religious visionaries call, The Truth. The all-pervasive unity of existence in general and on a more personal level, the union of self and Self (AKA the Godhead).

This is the said to be the root cause for my propensity for using the term Omniself. It could just as easily be called Uniself, Non-self or Anti-self (depending on how one views the nature of self in juxtaposition to Deity). Sages have enjoyed playing with this irony for millenniums now.



I believe we are One. That we are all aspects of a God, which is beyond the shadow of a doubt, not an anthropomorphic deification but a unified field (or plane) of indivisible consciousness. The raw awareness which exists before mind was given ground to think, by the Creator. Incarnating as we do, within a pattern of organic behavioral mechanisms (each relative to our capacity to perceive levels of reality), we begin to reach beyond our biology into the expanse of the exponential potentiality of possibilities in awareness.

Suddenly stripped of subjectivity, shattered by the force of the All... we are woven within a web of Spirit. As earthlings, we have certain mutually agreed upon parameters which define consensus 'reality'. The construct of ego, however, is a seeming illusory phenomenon and exists in isolation from the Source Current. In our spiritual awakening, is the light of this fundamental understanding which fashions our ideologies, however flavored by our unique personalities and proclivities.

Not awareness as is centered on the dynamic of subject-and-object, I must reiterate, but the awareness of the indescribable essence of the Oneness. Only upon the approach towards a total symbiosis with this Force and just post-peak of this attunement to such a current, does the witness have the capacity to frame the immensity of such a level of consciousness (within the proclivity and ideology of the tendencies of said observer). During the fusion of self and God, thought cannot exist, as thought is a mechanism of duality. :idea:

One may perceive the supraconscious plane, in which these realizations are born, as Divine, or for that matter, as not Divine. By 'not Divine', I mean to say that if ALL IS ONE and thus, by strict definition Divine... what then is not Divine? Therefore, nothing is an isolated degree of certainty, as all is Indivisible and no polarities truly exist within the unified web of Omni-awareness. This is why the insubstantial nature of the unmanifested source is so shrouded in complete mystery. In unity, all things lose separate definitions and reveal themselves as a silent void of constancy of form or definition of characteristic.

So, yes I would imagine it quite possible to experience a whiteout and have no impressions of this being a Spiritual phenomenon or indicating a direct presence of Divinity, if one's mental framework was such that the transcendent was colored by the ideal of insubstantiality. With such an outlook, the bliss of the whiteout may stem from the absence of duality. This is what the Indian philosophy of Advaita is all about. The unified, unpolarized state of being. The bliss emerges out of the freedom which this union elicits within the soul of the Dreamer.

I propose the concept that when we attempt to encapsulate the immersion with distinctive form or point of reference, we are doing so from our return to an isolated and disconnected witness. This strongly implies that awareness persists without thought or even any certainty of self.

One step beyond and above this level, nothing can be spoken of. It can be experienced and gradually integrated within one's individuated soul but the state of no mind is transcendent of polarity. I label this as 'Divine', simply because this force is so immeasurably intelligent and within it's innate indivisibility, beyond the grasp of mind or intellect.

Again, this thread is about the inner vision of the white light and I feel most certain that this would be translated slightly differently, by any number of individuals having such a peak experience. As much of what we speak of, when we raise questions about the reality of God or the awakening of a soul towards 'Cosmic Consciousness'... is limited by the system of semantics utilized to give voice to our logical deductions and philosophical assertions. I maintain the idea that we are each created to have unique perceptions and equally unique ideas about the presence or lack of presence, of a Divine Being.

As I cannot find the words to describe the indescribable... I often fall back on applying the use of traditional colloquialisms such as God, Divinity, Spirit or simply as, The Clear Light of the Void. The implication is aimed decidedly towards a state in which the fusion of an individuals interphase with supraconsciousness, within the Oneness, appears to encompasses all that exists. This is further speculated from the human vantage point, that this plane is the immaterial source, interior blueprint... and essential causative source for all being.

The truth of the matter is always paradoxical. For when we perceive that everything is God and therefore, nothing is not God... God ceases to exist as some Supreme, anthropomorphic deity and is without containment ans so, seen as immanent and the very awareness behind the myriad minds emerging out of nonexistence. Which, in and of itself, points back to a divine presence and only seems so from this side of The Looking Glass. In direct conscious union and the, cessation of mind... all is Void.

You tell me, ragabr, do you have this blissful whiteout experience without a sense of a Divine Order to the universe or a higher intelligence? Do you see the interconnectedness of the Grid and melt into it's expansive being? I am curious for you to clarify your perspective and I find your input most fascinating.

I had a similar experience to this my first time smoking changa which was the day after i first tried dmt. I had always taken psychedelics for party purposes and not spiritual. I had no expectations and my breakthru felt like eternity. i saw the light, not a white one, but mine was a red and orange light, looked almost like a trinity knot. It felt like the main energy source of all life, a place to re energize?? I felt my soul rise out of my body and I became the light and felt the oneness(the most amazing feeling i've ever had). My veiws and outlook on life changed from this one experience. I dont know what state it was or what, but when i came back i was in absolute aww and felt connected to everything and could reach a state similar to the one i was in thru medittation before sleep, but for only fractions of seconds at a time. I rode the high of that experience for 2 months probably. This is the place i'm searching for, but can't seem to find my way there.

read my signature & be well!

Rising Spirit, I've been putting this off, because I wanted my response to have as much thought put in as you so kindly do in yours. Things tend to slip this way, so I'll shoot from the hip, as it were, just to keep the flow going.

I feel sure that you are familiar with the conception of Sat-Chit-Ananda, Truth, Consciousness and Bliss. In the type of experience I asked about, a blissed out white-light without the sense of divinity, I feel like a manifestation of Consciousness and Bliss appear fully, but without a manifestation of Truth.

Looking back, I think a few quaking-in-the-boots experiences might have the Sat and Chit, without the Ananda.

I'm reminded of Theraveda Buddhism, that allows for Fruition to be entered by ways of any combination of the Three Gates, even though they are all ever-present in phenomena.

Hey, the flow is a beautiful thing and I respect your sensitivity and your desire to contemplate this issue for a stretch, as any soul should reflect upon the essence of the message they feel compelled to express.



Oh yes, I am quite familiar with this principle and for that matter, it is no small coincidence that my Gurudeva was named Sri Swami Satchidananda. He was a wise and kind Teacher with a sharp insight into what we attempt to encapsulate with the word, Spirit. I do not feel fully qualified to comment on the scenario you present, as my experience seems to arrive in the culmination of the revelation of truth-consciousness-bliss.

The primary essence of this trilogy is for myself, the knowledge that the transcendence is so delicately and sublimely interwoven with the effulgence of my direct awareness of the bliss which is translated, by virtue of the transmission, so as to manifest itself in my soul as the most profound of all truths. And this truth is self evident as the Indivisibility of Spirit. In other words... the knowledge that all is the unbroken field of a unified consciousness, ignites the spark which illuminates the mind of the Dreamer. So who is dreaming? Who am I? :idea:

There is no other God than God. Naturally, this God is the central hub of all sentient awareness and if you open your mind to this truth... it will shower you with it's all-encompassing radiance, it's immanent presence. All it takes is a fearless degree of perseverance. The greatest realizations are those which lay hidden around the next bend in the pathway. We are all, merely moments away for the immersion. I am certain that you are destined to find the Truth and the Divine Intelligence you seek to comprehend fully. It is not beyond the reach of humankind, for we are all the same light and singularity of being.

We share the one breath of the undivided self, the universal mind. Have a little faith and I am sure that your questions and keen anticipation to find the key, will transform into an opening within your own awareness of existence. It is both, written and spoken that when the soul journeys into the Void, all illusion fades into the abyss of our fleeting earthly dreams. In this moment, we are encircled with the name and essence of the Divine. You are already in the center of the cyclone. I hear you and share your yearning.

While it seems an entire lifetime, it is but a few moments in the eye of eternity. The key to this force with manifest itself unto you very, very soon. We are all, as conduits for the force of the raw current of the Absolute, finding ourselves forevermore, dancing on the perpetual brink of the Omni-awakening. The direct knowledge of the essence of this paradox of existence... the One. This dream of God searching to find Godself in the expanses of the Clear Light of the Void. Like the 1970's British rock group, Yes, so poetically phrased this message:





Exactly. Sthaviravāda may be derived from the ancient wisdom of the teachings of the Awakened One, Lord Buddha, but it is not just about antiquated concepts and a theology born in an era far bygone. This truth is free of any time period and is essentially, without a boundary. The idea that any combination of aspects of the three Gates, allows the witness to perceive the vision of Nirvana, is a truth which we may glean form the journey towards enlightenment. I concur, from any one of these flavors of awareness, the doorway is open to merge with the unsubstantiated, yet unborn force of Infinite Being.

The trilogy is simply a way of uniting the three aspects of the symbiosis with Spirit, into one whole experience. Vibhajjavada is the way of the warrior. In a war against mortal ignorance and a gravitational pull towards a surface mentality, fixed upon the mirage of the temporal... the fearless ones step beyond the appearance of random manifestation, into the realm of the Godhead. Therein is seated the crown of universal being. The silent song of the Divine voice.

So too, the psychonaut boldly travels forth to reach into the unknown for the awakening. We knowingly embark upon this voyage into the unknown and cull the kernel of knowledge from what it beyond the boundaries of finite ego, rational mind and deductive reasoning. This 'truth' is born of our direct experience and no other 'knowledge' will stand as substitute for this understanding. As is easily comprehended, it is but for us to open our eyes to see what is eternal and what is a dream.

The breath we take is the exhalation which God releases. We are a circle of beginnings, chasing imaginary endings in vain.

Interesting poll.. very interesting..

So many subjects of intelligent discussion are quite interesting. I can barely count them all, as so much about being an aware sentient being is both, fascinating and most perplexing. A few significant experiences are startlingly paramount to our singular existence alone.

In and of itself... perception of the blindingly potent inner light is humbling and inspiring. And in some cases, as with specific instances of chemical interaction, dramatic shifts in perception yield an interphase within the Light Eternal. This is not the endpoint, granted, as there is no endpoint in this journey. But at all points in the flowing progression of our paradigmatic life sequences, we are never apart from the light.

While it seems to come and go of it's own accord, the transcendent light, it's teaching it lasting and profound. The gradual integration is key to understanding the nature of this metaphysical phenomenon. Still, I am convinced beyond any shadow of doubt, that we are the fluctuation factor and not the alternate scenario. When we open fully to our core being... we are absorbed in the light of soul awareness and we bloom exponessially.

What an interesting take... The primordial essence, continually refining itself. A single exhale lasting billions of years.

Can't wait till God inhales again.

Had this happen once when I had smoked some extremly potent cannabis, had the weight of a bus moving through me, and saw some woman looking at me. Then I got this extremly white light shining with eyes closed. was in a pitchblack room with my friends. After listening to carbon based lifeforms and some burial etched headspace(really dark, but man it allowed me to go deep). We was talking about how it felt like we were in a dark forrest looking around

After that some carbon based lifeforms again, and then the white light thingy was happening. was only that, dont remember what happend next. maybe some semidreamstate where I was driving a car in the sun or something. I dont know, its foggy