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Sudden loss of potency - N-oxide, or something else? Options
 
jaceo
#1 Posted : 12/31/2012 6:16:44 AM
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Last visit: 20-Oct-2013
Hello all,

I'm a longtime lurker, and this is my first post. First I'd like to thank everyone for making this forum such an amazing resource.

Some brief background info: I was first introduced to the spice about 8 months ago by a friend. After 4 or 5 sessions with him, I decided to undertake my own extraction. I wanted to continue to explore this stuff, but I didn't want to be a burden on my friend, or to abuse his graciousness. He answered many questions for me along the way, but the Nexus was my main source of information, so thanks again!

Since the extraction I've gone on many trips with my own spice, and I've had a few breakthrough experiences. I always weigh out my dose and I feel like I have a fairly good handle on how much spice is required to produce an experience of a certain magnitude, although it obviously varies. My most intense experience was at 22mg, even though I've gone as high as 3o (always in the GVG.)

Here's the meat of it: Tonight I broke out the spice for the first time in a month. Prior to that I'd been smoking spice frequently, at least once every 2 weeks, sometimes 3 or more times per week. Around late October, I noticed that my spice was getting slightly darker in color. Tonight, after a month tucked away out of sight, I could clearly see that my spice was MUCH darker than before. No longer nearly white, it was a deep brown/orange. I shrugged my shoulders and loaded up the pipe with 15mg spice and 15mg 10x caapi just to get my feet wet after such a long break. To my surprise, I found the smoke to be very difficult to hold in deep, and I only barely managed to clear the gvg, and to hold it in for perhaps 7 seconds before I just about coughed it all out. I've never had too much trouble with the harshness of the smoke. I was a (nearly) pack-a-day cigarette smoker, and I quit cold turkey two weeks ago, so I chalked the harshness of the spice up to the fact that my lungs had been completely smoke-free for two weeks.

After such intense difficulty swallowing the smoke I collapsed back onto my bed and waited for the spice to hit... and it didn't. I got some mild tracers, a tiny increase in color intensity, and had a slight shift in mood/perspective, but the effects were about what I would expect from 5 or 7 mg, not 15. After 10 or 15 minutes, I re-loaded the pipe with the exact same dose. 15 spice/15 10x caapi. Once again, the effects were barely detectable (and in my experience, a tiny bit of this 10x caapi packs a sufficient MAOI punch to allow me to achieve equally strong effects multiple times in a row, without waiting an hour.) This time I even got up to take a leak almost immediately. To go into a room with a mirror in it, and to perform such a vulgar act would surely send me over the edge on a normal 15mg dose! I can usually barely stand to look at my own hands and legs, let alone my reflection or my pecker!

So at this point, I began to suspect something was wrong with my spice. Then it clicked that perhaps it had turned into n-oxide, which up until now I had assumed to be quasi-mythical; Most often just a misdiagnosis of impure spice. I knew that if you left your spice under a fan for a year you'd probably wind up with n-oxide, but mine was sealed up in a vial, and only 4 months old. Then it dawned on me that the room in which the spice was stored in is over-heated. I live on the east coast of the USA, and don't have any control over the thermostat in my building. It tends to get so ludicrously hot in my apartment that in the dead of winter I have to keep the windows open at night, and a fan on in order to sleep comfortably. I'd guess the air temperature in my apartment is in the mid to high eighties (Fahrenheit) even though its below freezing outside.

So perhaps the excessive heat has turned my spice into n-oxide? That would explain the color change, the harshness, and the loss of potency right? I smoked a 3rd 15mg dose tonight, just to be sure. This time I waited 2 hours beforehand and I used no caapi. The smoke was slightly easier to hold in without the caapi, but still harsher than I remember. The effects were once again minimal. Afterwards I had another thought: What if, somehow, my quitting smoking has affected the way my body metabolizes spice? Maybe the nicotine in my bloodstream had made me more susceptible to the effects, and now that I was clean, I was experiencing the effects "normally?" This seems unlikely, but I recently learned that nicotine blunts the effects of caffeine. I noticed a sharp increase in the effects of caffeine in the first days after I quit smoking cigarettes. So if caffeine interacts with nicotine, why couldn't spice? A quick look on Wikipedia revealed that tobacco contains MAOIs. So I'm wondering whether anyone is aware of any link or interaction between tobacco and spice? Could quitting cigarettes explain reduced effects? Or does conversion to n-oxide sound more plausible? Any other possible explanations?

Once again, thanks to everyone at the Nexus! I look forward to finding time to turn my barely comprehensible notes into coherent trip reports, and I'll post them as soon as I do!

 

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Global
#2 Posted : 12/31/2012 2:05:40 PM

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I've noticed for myself personally that a lot of times when the "potency" seems to drop through the floor, it more often than not has something to do with the smoking process itself. One time a few years ago, I was trying everything I could to take off, but just couldn't. I was loading up amounts that should have been undeniable but I was getting close to zero effects. It turned out the torch lighter was the culprit. Even though it looked and acted just fine, since it was beginning to run out of fluid (not to my knowledge), the flame while appearing normal in intensity actually wasn't very hot (all things considering), and so I really wasn't getting as much DMT as I thought.

Once again, the other day on 12/21/12 I tried my hardest again and I was having a decent amount of troubles. I tried several times that day, but it just wouldn't work and it didn't make any sense. These weren't just mediocre experiences, it was as if I wasn't really taking in any DMT at all. As it turned out my screens/ash bed setup had just gotten so gunky that it was obstructing the airflow a bit, so I just had to pull slightly harder....and we have lift off. It turned into quite the significant experience. So before we start pointing the finger at tobacco and degraded or altered DMT. Refill your lighter, change your screens/ash bed/herb bed/mesh, make sure your ceramic filter doesn't have any soot, etc...
"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind" - Albert Einstein

"The Mighty One appears, the horizon shines. Atum appears on the smell of his censing, the Sunshine- god has risen in the sky, the Mansion of the pyramidion is in joy and all its inmates are assembled, a voice calls out within the shrine, shouting reverberates around the Netherworld." - Egyptian Book of the Dead

"Man fears time, but time fears the Pyramids" - 9th century Arab proverb
 
The Observer
#3 Posted : 12/31/2012 8:15:14 PM

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Just my opinion, but, if your torch lighter was lighting, and since "it looked and acted fine", then it is my hallucination that the flame was fine............

When butane burns, it will typically burn around the same temperature........

"Butane burns with air at 1970 degrees celcius. Propane burns with air at 1980 decrees celcius. Burning with an oxygen mix increases the temperature of a propane flame to 2820 degrees celcius. However, keep in mind that if you are brazing/soldering, the object you are heating dissipates heat. Therefore, the temperature you can heat the object will be significantly less."

Plenty hot either way, with or without the added oxygen mix.

I have also experienced failed launches, but after additional attempts, with the same material, it ended up working normally.

I believe the failed attempts were attributed more to my state of mind, set, setting, etc.

Just my opinion...........

Much Love..............
I am certifiably insane, as such all posts written by me should be regarded as utter nonsense or attempts to get attention by using totally fictitious verbiage...........

The above refers to the fictitious 'I'
 
jaceo
#4 Posted : 12/31/2012 8:25:40 PM
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Joined: 02-Jul-2012
Last visit: 20-Oct-2013
Thanks for the response Global - I sure hope that it was just the result of some small malfunction in my technique or my setup. I tried 3 times though, and each time I got a sizeable hit with plenty of thick white smoke, so it wasn't restricted airflow or lack of heat. Additionally, on my 3rd attempt I didn't use any caapi, so the resultant smoke was most definitely from the spice.
 
 
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