Hmm, you speak probably of PEG-400 (polyethylene glycol 400) rather then about PG?
I agree that PEG-400 hardly for breathing, this its defect in contrast with Eton.
But earlier I did not manage to dissolve DMT in PG quite!

Yes – I have propylene glycol (PG), not polyethylene glycol (PEG-400).
DMT dissolves quite readily in the PG, especially if it’s warmed a bit while combining.

The problem is with the device itself. It simply isn’t designed to quickly deliver the volume of vapor necessary for use with DMT. My guess is that each long draw on the ecig actually vaporizes 1-2mg of liquid. That means you’re getting maybe a milligram of DMT per draw. With excellent technique and luck, you might get 3mg per draw. And not only does it deliver a very small dose, it’s also a very harsh dose! After 5 or 6 draws, my throat was feeling it – it felt very much like burnt spice.

DMT is metabolized rather quickly. A dose of 1mg will be mostly metabolized before you take the next. You could huff and puff for an hour on one of those ecigs, consuming 100+ mg of DMT in the process, and never get beyond very light effects.

I honestly can’t see why anyone would want to use one of these for DMT delivery.

- Thank you for revision! I shall try once again to check dissolve DMT in PG - only from curiosity.
The value dissolve 0.2g/ml really too small for practical application.

For comparison: i used e-Liquid 1g DMT / 1ml Eton+VG (50/50) with best result deep loooong trip (with using MAOI in gelcaps).
Now i wanted find to change Eton on other (not self-evaporating) solvent with similar high ability of the dissolution DMT...
...
E-cig solved wrote about dissolved 1g DMT in 10 drops heated VG! This way opens the new prospects at condition of the decision of the problem of the preliminary heating cartridge e-cig before use.
...
For me, E-cig very suitable else and since during DEEP trip for continuations, it's necessary only to press on button and do 1-2 puffs!
...
Only to make sure in efficiency e-Cig (on example Ego-T) it is enough to dissolve 0.2g DMT in 0.1ml Eton (95%) , place this e-Liquid near/on spirals of atomizer and make one good puff! This so simply.
Your trip will be long more than 5 minutes.

PG and VG dont work well. Thats why I said use PEG-400
and this is not intended to be a substite for the VG
I didn't just do this once and throw it at yall, Ive done it a ton.

probably should listen to the guy who invented straight to base (me), he kinda knows what he is talking about.

edit add - and I see you used the Joye ego mega. I dont know about this and it isnt a tank type cartridge from what I see. Mega means that it holds more volume, not that it makes more vapor. You didn't do anything that I recommended.

“Invented” straight to base? That’s quite an unsupported claim. And it doesn’t logically follow that you know what you’re talking about with respect to ecigs and their use with DMT.

DMT dissolves very easily in propylene glycol, and propylene glycol is the “standard” ecig fluid. The problem with this approach is not the fluid – it’s the device itself. The device was not designed to deliver vapor at the rate and volume necessary to make it comparable to other DMT vapor delivery devices. And the heating method produces harsh vapor.

If you get good results with an ecig, that’s great -- for you.

However, I’ve experimented with many different types of devices over the years, and the ecig simply doesn’t perform very well, especially considering the price of better-quality units.

Some inexpensive and better-performing alternatives:

Changa in an inexpensive pipe allows one to deliver doses of any size, and the smoke/vapor is not very harsh.

“The Machine”, when used with proper technique, can produce smooth vapor at any desired rate.

You used a different solvent than I recommended and (edit asdd - turns out it wasnt a polyfill type) you used some mega cartomizer designed for holding large volumes of solutions in polyfill. no wonder .5 cc didnt work, that setup is for large volumes. tank setups work till the last drop and they work with small volumes or you can fill them up.


first stb entheogen extraction on internet Octover 2003, cactus. dg, a member here, used the method on mhrb shortly thereafter at the nook, then we added freeze ppt. This stuff all comes from thenook.org

Look at my intro in the intro section. I realize that one isnt the other, but having multiple very successful additions to the entheogen world over the psat 10 year should give those who don't know either of us some reason to believe what someone says over another. And I know you have credibility here, but Im new here, so you have to look at my history for my credibility.

You didn't follow the most important points I made.
1) PEG-400 as the solvent
2) Tank type ecig setup. examples given.

I'd like to try and clarify a little bit to make sure the type of ecig that I've got will work.

I have an Ego-T, but AFAIK it doesn't use an "atomizer" (unless that's just another name for the tank?) It takes 510 cartridges with a heating element and some cotton inside. I've successfully used it many times for vaping BHO mixed 50/50 with PG. I've found that it works much better with that when using the "XL" cartridges with dual heating elements rather than the standard single element type.

If this is even the right type of device to use, do you think that a dual element cart would provide bigger hits with DMT the way it does with BHO?

the tank types never have polyfill. there are dual element tank setups dual coil tank Polyfill systems work with this too, but once you are finished there is sure to be a good bit of dmt stuck in the polyfill and not easily recoverable. and they dont work till you put enough solution in to saturate the polyfill and then some.

the Joye system has a seperate atomizer and tank, many other have the two combined and they call that a cartomizer, just like the cartridges you allude to.

the cheapest way to get a tank setup that works with your current 510 batter is just to buy the ce3 http://www.myvaporstore....kymizer_XL_p/510ce3.htm disposible tank. It has the tank and the atomizer in one disposible piece. A box of 5 is $10

It actually does make a bigger plume than the joye that I posted, and in retrospect might be a better suggestion for a first purchase, as it is cheaper and makes a bit more vapor.

And yes, dual element setups make more vapor. You can put the PEG-400 mix right on the polyfill of a dual cartomizer, but you will have some residual spice left in the polyfill once you are through. There are lots of ways to make this work.

Another point is that you don't really want the tanks or cartridges with large volumes because the battery runs out way before you use up a small tank, so whats the point, you have to regroup anyway. A big tank can work with small volumes, but a big polyfill cartridge needs lots of liquid to work.

The JOYE eGo Mega does NOT use a polyfill cartridge, it uses a “tank setup” as you have described. It’s a large empty tank (no absorbent polyfill in it).

You keep stressing using PEG-400 over PG – why? PG can hold a very concentrated solution of DMT. What it the benefit of PEG-400?

Regardless, it’s the ecig design that’s the problem. Let’s remember that ecigs are designed to provide cigarette smokers with a smokeless alternative that’s similar in “feel” to smoking a cigarette.

Vaporizing DMT is not like smoking a cigarette. The volume of vapor inhaled and the rate of inhalation is much different than when one is smoking a cigarette or an ecig.

If one wants to causally puff on an ecig to get 1-3mg of DMT per harsh throat-burning puff, then an ecig is acceptable.

An interesting idea, but as I’ve said, there are numerous inexpensive superior alternatives.

you mention ecig like it is one thing. it is a whole universe of different products.

as asked above, for instance, you can get a dual element tank that supposedly makes tons of vapor... dual coil tank another simpler one and it fits right on the battery you already have.

I think Im going to get one, just to see how much vapor these systems can make, despite my satisfaction with the ce3 and the ego-tank systems.

and why do I recommend PEG-400, well, the other solvents don't work and it does. simple as that.

I really dont know about the joye ego mega you mention, its not the type Ive used or recommend but I just see this online, so that's why I thought it wasn't a tank, because they say that it isnt. there must be different types of mega if yours is a tank.

---

http://www.thevaporpro.c...ble-cartridges-3ml.html

JOYE eGo mega 2.5ML Refillable Cartridges Hold 2.5ML of Juice. These cartridges uses the standard Joye Poly Fiber to hold the liquid in the cartridge. eGo mega 2.5ml Cartridges can only be used with eGo MEGA 2.5ml Atomizers. These carts are not to be used with Tank Atomizers. You can purchase the eGo mega 2.5ML Atomizers here. Cartridges can be used on any genuine joye eGo battery with the matching atomizer.

Ok, i got a cartomizer with wicks. You can unscrew the atomizer head and you can see, that there is some metal coil wrapped around the wicks. As i see it, the wicks get soaked in fluid, the metal coil warms up and vaporizes the liquid. So it's basically some kind of battery powered machine.

The biggest downside seems to be the fact, that, if you have to saturate the liquid, you need tons of spice to fill one cartridge, and there proopably will be a lot of residues left behind because of the wicks. Propably harder to recover than VG condensations.

So I guess the way forward with these kind of ecigs is to make a small solution beforehand and drop it directly on the coil. But how does one prepare small doses if you can saturate 1 drop with 100mg?

I also do not see why this should work more efficient than a machine, because it basically uses the same setup. One idea is, that the liquid works as some sort of heat buffer or encourages the dmt molecules to "come along" with the PEG molecules. Does anyone know how nicotine is actually vaporized in conjunction with the liquid. I may want to research that myself though.

Yes – they are all variations of the same design idea: You have a power source (battery), a heat source (wire coil), an absorbent material designed to absorb and hold liquid (wick), and a storage area for reserve fluid. (Along with buttons, switches, a mouthpiece and whatever bells and whistles a manufacturer decides to add.)

Dripping fluid containing DMT directly onto the heating coil would be similar to what happens with “The Machine”, but the DMT is diluted by the PEG-400 or other fluid.

DMT in the wick isn’t all vaporized when heat is applied. My guess is that very little of what’s in the wick gets vaporized each heating cycle. This means that the DMT is exposed to high temperatures repeatedly, resulting in a degraded pyrolized by-product which is very harsh and unpleasant.

To my knowledge, all of these devices, regardless of variations, are designed to “simulate” the cigarette (or cigar) smoking experience. They can be used for DMT, but not as effectively as other less-expensive alternatives (after all, how much does an empty mini-Hennesy bottle and a bit of steel wool cost?)

Really is not an ensemble of our ways and variants of the experiences really value Nexus? And really so necessary to use only one scale for determination whole found?
Here is and my position and my interests although and can not comply with position and interest immediately all surrounding me people, but this does not disturb me to respect them and have an interest to their standpoint.
Nexus - first of all information field, where each have freedom in choice and responsibility for its choice before itself.
And Nexus enables each this choice to do! Please, take it care.

sorry if I seemed confrontational..

anyway, in regards to the valid point that you dont get a big hit off of these things, I bought and tested a dual coil tank setup and the vapor production is much greater. And I may have overstated things when I said it could get you as far as you wanted. I meant it gets me and most of my crew as far as we want these days. but no, its not the best for dramatic rocket launches, although as mentioned, you can add this onto the tail of a launch pretty easily for the best of both.

Dual Coil Tank. There are quite a few others.

so I mixed another batch, this time more as Lost travellier recommends, and it is better.

just dmt in 95% ethanol, leaving out all the ecig solvents and putting it in a tank as above. I mixed it 1 gram in 2cc ethanol, dissolved easily. works great and tastes better than the PEG. Can get a pretty big dose with this and a dual coil tank as above. I don't know why I didn't do this at fist, it was already posted up, just not in a tank.

Finally-that is to say one more acknowledgement working Eton!
There is for you difference in sensations of trip between PEG vs Eton?
...
Little other information: i have tried to dissolve little Harmalas-fb in PEG.
This opens, but much slowly. The exact value i until has not measured.
I distrust that dissolved Harmalas can be vaporized like DMT. (Harmalas have dry sublimation) But this interesting, possible somehow use this solution (Harmalas in PEG)?

Ok almost another week, and a big weekend night out with the gang last night working these things.

Ive had the opportunity to turn on more people to DMT, granted lower dose and slower application than the usual techniques.

Ethanol in the single coil tanks works great, in the double coil tanks works great.

I posted to point out that this is perhaps the only way to bring a vaped dmt trip directly into bed. Unlike other hallucinogens, for me, DMT is like viagra. DMT ecig in the sack is highly recommended.

And my opinion coincides in results.

I'd like to add a comment on this remark of yours:

Just because you 'invented' one thing doesn't make you automatically an authority on all your further claims. The DMT Nexus operates with the principles of science, meaning that we love to see claims backed up by for instance experimental data. Regardless of whether you invented straight-to-base (I can't imagine that anyone with chemistry background never tried to skip the acid step before 2003), all your further claims still require that you provide supporting proof.

Your help and knowledge is very much appreciated here at the Nexus, especially if you do possess extensive knowledge and insight into chemistry and related fields. But the Nexus is not a place to show off your ego with claims of inventing things. In my opinion that's a form of arrogance the world could do without.

To be on topic: Thank you for condensing this information and experimental data together, you're doing those experimenting with ecigs a big favor.

S/B tek does not even work all that well anyway compared to other teks. Lots of people here have made up teks that work better than S/B. I dont see why that should be stated like it was in this context, unless your hung up on some ego thing.