Let me rephrase my last post: Everybody, please quit being assholes. If you want to start a thread for debating the merits of gun control, fine. But the issue here is the lives that were lost and the lives that were shattered by those losses.

Have a little respect for fuck's sake.

Do I dismiss that premise? Because I don't. But ok. So it is strictly the human condition. Then what is any protective measure worth, really? According to your logic, nothing. But the human condition is technically the reason for everything we do, and every problem that we have. Do you suggest that nothing should be done about...anything? Part of the human condition is disease, death, and dying, so then what is the point of providing medical care to anyone? How confident are you that you're right about everything?

EDIT: Entryptomancer, benzyme started it.

before guns, what did we have?
bows and arrows, swords, spears... you get the idea.
humans are inherently violent. someone intent on causing harm to a large number
of people probably will. so you tell me.. how can you prevent it?

i have a gun, as do many other members. i can't speak for them, but the idea of murdering people with it
never crosses my mind. i have it solely for home defense, because some people still
like to invade homes.

Wow, talk about putting words in someone's mouth...

Maybe there's no right and wrong side to this...only differing points of view. Both are right, and wrong in a sense, according to the person who attaches his/her beliefs to the issue?

You can't prevent people from acting in accordance with their preconceived ideas, beliefs, psychological deviances, fears, self-importance, and/or social domestication/programming. That is their choice, and they will use whatever weapon that's in their infantry, whether it's a gun, a knife, or a rock. THEY are responsible for their behavior, not the tool they use to carry it out.

I'd rather be home invaded by someone with a knife because they couldn't get a gun.
Perhaps there are also cultural differences:
List of countries by firearm-related death rate USA is number 12 in the world.
And from: http://www.guardian.co.u...an/10/gun-crime-us-state

i live within 100 miles of that town. i just dont understand how something like this can happen...

also today in china there was a man with a knife who wounded 22 students at a school...

http://now.msn.com/china...2-children?ocid=ansnow11

my son is going into kindergarten next year...

I know that you wouldn't consider performing such a heinous act yourself. That's out of the question. And I acknowledge that human beings have violent tendencies. This can and will never change. But that does not change the fact that guns are part of the problem. That cannot be dismissed. We don't have people committing mass murders with swords or bows or spears anymore. The nature of a gun is really where the problem lies. Anyone can wield and use a gun to the extent that that person can cause a lot of damage. There is a large amount of detachment between a gunmen and his victims. They empower people to do horrible things. Semi-automatic and automatic weapons are a problem, and it is no coincidence that these particular weapons are an accessory in these mass-killings. If you mean to say that all of these gunmen would have devised another way to commit these murders, then so be it, but I'd like to take that chance.

You say you have a gun, but for what other reason than to protect yourself from other people with guns?

I'm working with a sociopathic student in public school, in CT, and would like to know what he did last week, in class? He gestured shooting another student, as with a gun--not a bow and arrow, not a spear, and not a sword. Less recently, he drew a picture of someone getting shot. And you know what, it scares the shit out of me that he's going to have easy access to a gun when he's not much older than he is now. I have a problem with that. Do you?

that is troubling.
take those signs as a means of prevention. some people just snap with no warning.

I will say this: if the public is to be disarmed, then authorities should also be disarmed.

THIS! ^^ If anything, firearms should be used to defend yourself from oppressive authority. If the "authorities" were disarmed, then I would be fine with a gun-control law. We want an even playing field. Then again... its not like drug-control laws stop people lol.

"When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone.
The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.
It removes force from the equation... and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act."

By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret.)

Last year my home was broken into while sleeping and I was robbed of many valuables. I feel fortunate to have lost only a few material things and thank the stars I didn't go downstairs that evening for a glass of water. Who knows what these criminals would have done if caught in the act.

As a result, I purchased a firearm and plan to purchase a few more in the coming months. I have never, not even once, considered harming another innocent person. I would likely allow harm to myself before harming another -- except the bastard who enters my home in the middle of the night while I sleep to rob me.

This is why I have a gun and this is why I should be allowed to own one. I have no criminal record. I am psychologically stable. I am careful in storing my weapons.

My heart goes out to the 20 innocent kindergarden children whose lives were taken prematurely and for the 6 adults. I admit to shedding more than a few tears today. However, I will continue to support gun rights exactly because there are people like this in the world. People with no regard for innocent human life.

End of story, for me.

taking away guns won't solve anything, criminals will still have guns illegally, the only difference is that law abiding citizens will be left defenseless. caution should be shown when selling these guns to the public, but most people have the ability to fake sanity.

I wonder also if the whole media attention these killers get is connected to their acts.
It's like the Nukes argument IMO. We can't disarm because they wont etc.
Remember M.A.D.? Mutually Assured Destruction.
If he's got a gun, why can't I have a missile launcher to protect myself?

I also don't have an answer to the tragedy. All I can think of is better gun detection technology (sensors, ion detectors etc) but how can every school afford that?

All I can end up at is: Disarm Everyone.

"I will say this: if the public is to be disarmed, then authorities should also be disarmed."

Well..errmm..

I dont like talking about this too much becasue people get the wrong idea..but I feel exaclt the same way as you Benz even though I dont own any guns at all and never have. I have thought about going and learning to shoot many times etc. This is not a perfect world we live in and I have no reason to trust a nation like the one I live in to have a fully armed police and military and a mandatory disarming of every civilian.

People should also be totally free to have the right to defend themselves in their own home. If someone breaks in and threatens your family I dont think anyone here would be complaining about that gun they might have just stored somewhere just in case. These things do happen.

At the very least I dont even like minxx leaving work at night without pepper spray or something man..there is some real wierd lurkers out there..

I dunno how useful this whole gun debate is though really atm..it is just sad that this sort of thing even happens really.

You know, I would expect people here to not be quite so reductionist and reactive in their thinking. A tightening of gun control laws is not tantamount to stripping away constitutional rights or denying anyone the ability to defend themselves in their home.

As it stands, anyone in this country can walk into a gun show and purchase an assault weapon without so much as a background check or mandatory waiting period. That is ludicrous. This includes weapons which are designed for no other purpose BUT to kill people. No one is hunting ducks with a Tek9, and no one who is looking to defend themselves and their family against burglars needs armor piercing ammunition or large capacity magazines.

There is a direct correlation between states with tougher gun control laws and lower incidents of gun violence. It's common fucking sense you morons. No one is going on a killing spree with a fork.

I forget, when was the constitution written?

this ^

Yes, benzyme and other are correct that the human condition plays a very large role.. this cannot be disputed. But one tool that works most reliably for allowing one with a sickly human condition carry out their ideas is a gun. Guns are designed for killing and are basically the only readily available tool that will work for such a large scale massacre other than obvious other alternatives such as explosives.. but thats a whole 'nother ballpark that we needn't get into and guns seem to be the more common weapon used for attacks like these.

Not everyone who owns those types of guns uses them to kill, some just appreciate the machinery and power when they take it to the range.



Harsh words for a mod, don't ya think? Doesn't this go against the Attitude of the forum?

Just because it might be easier to kill with a gun than a fork, does that mean the tool used to kill is responsible? It's the mind behind the tool.

Pretty ironic how the some members of the entheogenic community place blame on the symptom, but not the cause of the problem. Should we blame the drug if a person chooses to act irresponsibly while under the influence? Maybe it's a factor, but ultimately the responsibility is with the individual, not the medium.

No it doesn't. I suggest you read the Attitude page carefully, not just skim over it.

In my mind this debate about gun control, after such tragedies as the recent mall and school shooting that immediately initiate them, are such a wearisome memorandum of how convoluted the shared mind of our society has become. Now there should be some sort of silence.