Thanks for clearing up, A1pha.

And sorry about that, I was not aware that the topic was not allowed in the Nexus. I got carried away after reading the news.

Apologies.

Titles of some other links on that CNN page:
'A living hell': Witness account of shooting
How the school shooting unfolded
3rd grader describes shooting from class
Student: We heard lots of bangs

...because apparently we need to know all the gory details. I'm disturbed by the media's obsession (or perhaps just their viewers' obsession) with violence. I sometimes wonder if people who do such horrible things are just trying to get famous, fame being another thing that we seem to be obsessed with.

I've always liked my dad's approach to gun laws:


Ban handguns and let the hunters/home defense people keep their rifles and shotguns. Makes it much harder to smuggle weapons into these buildings without violating the rights to hunt your own food and defend your home.

I think that stories like this lead to discussion. If Traveler feels it's inappropriate, that's his call and he can certainly shut it down. I don't think, personally, that under the circumstances it is.

Until then, I would like for Benzyme to explain 1) what part of the human condition he believes explains the drive to randomly gun down kindergartners, and 2) how being able to walk into a gun show and leave an hour later with an assault weapon in hand actually benefits our nation.

The Norway argument to me holds no water. There are of course sick people everywhere, but this random gunman on a rampage thing is for the most part an American phenomenon. Ours is a culture of guns and violence. Easy access IS an issue.

sadly I am highly skeptical of the idea that gun controll is any sort of solution.

Look at drugs..

People can get guns anyway..if they want a gun someone is willing to get them a gun. The problem origionates elsewhere. The gun is just something these people pick up to carry out a thought.

I wish gun controll was the real issue here but it seems to be something more disturbing. Vancouver was worse than any US city at one point about 5 years ago for gang related shootings(most tied to drug cartels)..and I dont think we have the ability to just buy guns freely like you can in the US.

"Ban handguns and let the hunters/home defense people keep their rifles and shotguns. Makes it much harder to smuggle weapons into these buildings without violating the rights to hunt your own food and defend your home."

they should probly just do that anyway..why do people need handguns?

Some people prefer handguns because they are more comfortable being smaller and lighter, are better for concealed carry, more maneuverable in close quarters, can be fired one-handed, and can be more challenging to shoot accurately for sport/hunting.

Egotism and self-importance that drive us to make a difference in the world so that we are as important in the eyes of others as we are in our own eyes. Sometimes, the only difference a person can make is a negative one. Some people are too lazy or too lowly self-esteemed to strive to do something truly great, so they do the next most influential thing: Something truly horrible.

(I don't speak for Benzyme, of course)

If the problem is drug cartels, then the issue is drugs being illegial in the first place.

Sure, but you dont need to really conceal your gun if it's a rifle at home for personal defence if it was ever needed. I am not against people owning a rifle. You can still hunt with a rifle reguardless of personal preference.

Personally I dont really have feelings on the issue of guns, other than that I think people should be allowed to own rifles at least. Handguns are another issue..but like I said the issue is not guns..it is that people for whatever reason feel like randomly shooting others is a good idea. I cant imagine why banning guns will just make that stop really. I can understand people being appauled over the whole thing and the innitial reaction being about guns.

You might as well ban the sensationalist hype up of violence in the media and television programs, music videos etc..people dont just get these ideas from nowhere..not to mention the hippocracy of america and many other nations concidering the sort of wars they are invovled in. Kids even play games about being cops and soldiers just shooting people all day long..and then wondering why oh why people get these kinds of ideas.

BTW..I am not actaully saying they should ban all violence in movies etc..just that people dont get the idea to go do this just becasue they have a gun. They get guns becasue they have these sorts of ideas..and there will always be a way to get a gun if what you want is a gun.

damn...those parents on xmas day are going to be looking at those unwrapped gifts
imagine sending yourkid off to to the final day of class before holidays and you never see them again, just brutal.

Just to chime in, YES the human condition is a problem, but guess what? So are guns. Let's get real about this issue. There is a direct cause-and-effect relationship between firearms and deaths. It's irrefutable. Is making something illegal the answer? No, not completely. For example, I really like LSD, but LSD is hard for me to get. It's not hard for everyone, but for me it is. If it were legal, I would probably use it more often than I do currently. Apples and oranges, but it's not the worst example. Hypothetically, if guns were somehow eliminated from the equation, would we have a more frequent occurrence of homemade explosive being detonated at schools? That's debatable. Guns are explicitly used to kill things. That's it. There is no other practical use for a gun--well, that and protecting yourself from someone else who has a gun.

"Guns are explicitly used to kill things. That's it. There is no other practical use for a gun--well, that and protecting yourself from someone else who has a gun"

Thats a bit of an oversimplification though, because for most people killing things is how we survive. Should hunters not be allowed to have guns? Some people think ALL guns should be banned. You need to be specific here becasue this gun issue is complex. I really dont know any hunters who use handguns..this is the first time I ever heard that actaully..but in general it is not necessary. I can imagine handguns being harder to get making more sense than all guns being outlawed.

Noone has said that guns being readily available this way does not make it easier..it does..but you still have to realize people will get guns..and that if you take guns away the problem is not solved..

I dont own guns btw..I just really dont like the idea of a world so filled with fear that people are not even allowed the rite to hunt for their food any longer with anything other than a bow and arrow which in same cases is far more inhumane in terms of cuasing pain for an animal etc.

You cant really say "guns are for killing and thats it" and expect people to find that adequate. Yes guns kill things..just like bows and arrows and any other hunting weapons that people have been using for a long long time. Thats not the same as people who stockpile shotguns and handguns and any other military style weapons they can get their hands on.

Yes, Jamie, your point is well taken. I know other things kill people. But sometimes, as I've learned, the oversimplification of things is precisely what's called for. Because we can run circles around the issue all day and never come to a conclusion, agreement, etc. A couple of things though: this young gunman wasn't hunting for his food, and if that is something that you enjoy doing, by all means use the bow and arrow. Again, guns are really good at killing things. Too good, in fact. Please reach out to me when there is a bow and arrow massacre at a school.

I don't particularly need a gun, so why does anyone else? Now whether or not I think I need a gun...well that seems to be the real issue.

you want to oversimplify by bringing up a tired argument? cars kill more people than guns do.
it's a stupid argument, really. if people want to kill people, they'll find a way to do it, with or without guns.

Guns are not the problem. If you want to kill someone, youre going to do it, whether if its with a fork, or with your hands. The problem is the mental state of these people, which is derived from our culture. We need to look at the source of the problem to make progress, not the actual problem.

that's what i'm sayin'.

and guns aren't that good at killing (adult) people, particularly handguns. they're relatively underpowered compared to rifles,
so shot placement dictates efficacy.

Guns, bows and arrows, cars... Sheesh people, stop beating around the bush...

Why don't we just make killing people illegal?

Benzyme, sometimes your responses can be quite tiresome. This thread doesn't need an injection of wise-ass comments. If you want to troll, choose another forum. I'm simply not amused, or impressed.

As someone who works currently at an elementary/middle school in Connecticut, this recent shooting hits particularly close to home and has caused me to re-evaluate the issue. The argument that "other things kill people" is not really addressing the issue. Of course other things kill people. That's not my point of contention. Tobacco kills infinitely more people, yes. Should we make tobacco illegal? No. Should we take steps toward eliminating tobacco production, availability, and use? Yes. This is about guns, specifically. If people want to kill people, they'll find a way, with or without guns, but let's make it a little bit harder for that to happen. Guns are not the whole equation, but they are part of it. Again, let me know when someone kills dozens of people with a fork, and I'll stand corrected.

you dismiss the premise that the real problem is the human condition in favor of a simplistic cause.
people could easily do mass poisonings or bombings. again, how can you prevent that
(you can't)