DING DING DING! LADIES AND GENTLEMEN....IN THE BLUE CORNER....WEIGHING IN AT .05gr.....DMT!

AND IN THE RED CORNER....WEARING THE CRUMBLY BLACK 30X SHORTS.....SALVIA DIVINOOOOOOOORUMMM.....!

but seriously- this is not a contest of any kind. merely starting a thread as to folks' attitudes towards the similarities/differences between two of the most potent entheogens currently known. SWIM has much experience with both now and knows the following:

1. salvia is one of the only entheogens to NOT work on the seratonin system. SWIM has actually been spooked (briefly, but certainly) on high doses of salvia....has noticed a much more palpable, physical aspect (skin feels prickly, etc.)

2. DMT has been nothing but blissful and a much more profound love-bliss sensation during and afterward. (seratonin system?)

3. SWIM gets rarely gets jitters doing most entheogens..but these two....always....

4. SWIM post-Salvia= HOLY SHI@!! WHAT THE HELL JUST HAPPENED?!?

5. SWIM post-DMT= THANK YOU SO MUCH! I'M SO GRATEFUL AND I FEEL SO CONNECTED... (and, of course, HOLY SHI@!!)


anyways....would love to hear from my family of astralnauts on thoughts/attitudes....

LOVE AND GRATITUDE!

I agree with the blissful happy feeling after dmt, I never had that with salvia.

I also agree with 4 and 5, after the dmt I was like wow this is wonderful stuff very greatful, after salvia I just was like man thats weird.

I cannot speak for DMT but I have had some very profound and insiteful experience on salvia. I mean absolutely incredible experiences where a complete connectedness with god has been felt. But I've never come out of a salvia trip with a warm loving sensation. Salvia is a pretty dark world, but I believe exploration of the dark side of the human psyche is important.

VisualDistortion- have you not partaken of the spice? you've got over 200 posts on a DMT forum??

No, I haven't. I'm experienced with other entheogens, especially mushrooms and salvia. But I should be doing an extract this weekend. My order of MHRB is getting here a little later than expected but it's ok. I've got everything else needed for the extract.

Try taking fresh leaves sublingually. The experience is a fantastic blissfull experience on par with mushrooms and LSD.

All too often people smoke the dried leaves or an extract. It's just not the same experience.

The natives who use salvia as a mushroom substitute use fresh leaves only. They use it as a quid. Some make a drink out of it. They never use dried leaves. Something in the leaves changes as you dry them or store them. Freshly picked leaves, used within an hour or so after being picked, give an experience similar to LSD and mushrooms, but the dried leaves are barely effective at all unless they are smoked.

SWIM used to grow salvia and tried smoking dried leaves a few times. He did not like the effects at all. The only way SWIM liked it was when he took the fresh leaves, rolled them up, and put them in his cheek as a sublingual quid. That way it's very similar to mushrooms.

I don't know why people choose to smoke the dried leaves. While potent, it’s such an inferior experience to what can be had by using a quid of freshly picked leaves. Smoked, it's a dark disorienting experience. Taken as a quid of fresh leaves in the mouth, it’s a blissful LSD-like experience that lasts a few hours. It’s fantastic that way. I just don’t understand why people smoke it. That makes no sense. It’s so much worse that way. It doesn’t compare at all.

Yeah I suppose that's the difference.

Salvia extract to the west is mainly a headshop phenomenon. It seems like the manufacturers have used some process to get rid of the bulk of the leaf to reduce down to some crusty form of matter which is then stored in commercial labels for god knows how long.

Most of our experiecnes from DMT are just that. The DMT is extracted away from the plant matter entirely by the user or someone at least as a close personal friend.

But as my only Sally experiences have been from extract, I find the very name repulsive and the effects seem to me more like a distortion of my mind and self rather than an enhancement. I find it to be the hardest thing to relax on.

Well, Give me 2g of dried leaves to chew and I talk with little, pale creatures hiding in marbles of black wax.

That's nothing compared to fresh leaves. SWIM used to grow salvia, he tried it fresh and dried. It's not the same experience after its dried. It loses the LSD-like quality only the fresh leaves have. At least that's SWIM's experience. He knows no one else who's tried it fresh who can confirm SWIM's experience of fresh versus dried. At any rate, even the dried leaves are better then taken sublingually then when smoked.

That's very interesting. I've sometimes heard about fresh leaves producing a "blissfull" state of mind, very euphoric. Well, that'S propably the last thing I'd associate my Salvia experiences with. They've been pretty dark, weird ..leavin me in a state of ..well..slight depression afterwards like "Oh...ok...*sigh*. Nevertheless still very fascinating afterwards...just not "enjoyable" in any way.

Exactly. It's a different experience for SWIM. It's very enjoyable and blissful. At least that's how it is for SWIM when fresh leaves are used. Has anyone else noticed that the fresh leaves are more LSD-like or is it just SWIM who's noticed this?

Can Salvinorin A oxidize? I recall that dmt-oxide is supposed to create a "party's over" feeling. Maybe the whole west is smoking salvinorin-oxide.

I'm thinking possibly something other than Salvinorin A is active in the fresh leaves which decomposes rapidly and therefore has yet to show up in laboratory tests. When SWIM says fresh, he means FRESH. Not 1 day old. FRESH FROM THE PLANT. He tried saving them in the refrigerator for one day and their effects change for SWIM. The pleasant LSD-like effect is gone. Whatever it is that makes it more LSD-like, it rapidly degrades and can't be kept refrigerated or even frozen. I have no idea what it is. I have not seen it talked about. Perhaps it degrades to become Salvinorin A?

Hmm, interesting

Apparently SWIM is not the only one who's noticed that fresh leaves are better. Look at what this guy from another forum says about it and SWIM agrees 100%:



There's a reason most native shamans only used fresh leaves.

SWIM only likes salvia as fresh leaves. He's tried dried leaves, leaves kept refrigerated, frozen leaves, smoked dried leaves, etc., and the only method that produces LSD-like effects is the quid method using freshly picked leaves. If they are not fresh, they are still active, but very disorienting and unpleasant, nothing like LSD if you ask SWIM.

how stoked am i that i started this thread??? this is EXCELLENT information! so far, SWIM's only experience of Salvia has been smoking the dried black crumbles sold a la headshops. he no likey. no likey one bit. specially after experiencing the righteous communion of DMT. interestingly however- he has been called to Salvia as of late...very subtly and has thought about giving this spirit another chance. in my heart i KNEW there HAD to be a better way to imbibe.
have any of my family heard of Daniel Siebert or sagewisdom.org? while the man is certainly not going to win any congeniality contest (getting anything more than a one sentence response to a query....good luck), he does seem to know his shtuff concerning the plant. that being said, most of his sales via his website are dried leaves or something he calls "sage goddess emerald essence" tincture. any Swimmer tried this?

69ron- any online vendor you would recommend to purchase living plants from? SWIM is all in now. he LOVES growing his own entheogens and has a spot all picked out for his new family addition. perhaps SWIY could provide SWIM with a "dosage chart" in re: the fresh leaves? something like:

1-3 leaves - enter your impression/experience here
4-6 leaves - etc.. etc..


i am SO GRATEFUL to have such wisdom at my finger tips! you guys ROCK!

LOVE AND GRATITUDE!

and VisualDistortion- i CAN'T WAIT to hear about SWIY's first DMT experience!! may your journey be righteous my brother!

i have enjoyed using freshly picked leaves..even when he chewed on just one leaf he could feel subtle effects..while a few grams of dried leaf does next to nothing

SWIM would love to grow Salvia, but it'S illegal in the country he lives, and his window points directly towards a police station.

SWIM have had a dream last night. In that dream SWIM have made some Salvia fortified leafs using Cold Acetone Tek. After that SWIM dissolve some DMT in naphtha, and apply that no Sally fortified leafs. SWIM now got some Salvinorin/DMT fortified leafs. Just the name scares SWIM.

What you fellow colleagues psychenautes think about that?