ron, you mentioned around 10mgs would be a sublingual harmaline/mine mix dosage for potentiating vaporized dmt.. but what about for ingesting dmt orally, does the sublingual dosage change? and how long before should it be done, same half an hour before as when orally taking the harmalas?

and what about if there are some possible sodium carbonate traces in the final product, would that make it burn/be discomforting sublingually?

yea thats what I keep thinking, couldn't there be toxic chemical traces in those crystals your putting in your mouth? yuuck

toxic traces are only possible if you use toxic chemicals. But SWIM doesnt use toxic chemicals, he uses food-grade chemicals to make his harmala extractions. SWIM uses vinegar, pure sea salt and sodium carbonate, which can be made by just baking sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) in the oven. Sodium carbonate has a high pH, which is the reason I asked the question. A high pH of small amounts of sodium carbonate might be uncomfortable/slightly burn, but it wont be really dangerous.

Using ammonia would guarantee it would have no remains of the basifying agent as ammonia evaporates completely but it stinks like hell. Sodium carbonate doesnt evaporate so one should filter it dry so that the water with sodium carbonate drips out. thats what SWIM did but it was still a bit moist when he put it on a plate to fully air dry, which means whatever little remains of sodium carbonate probably just stayed in the final product as the final water evaporated. It was for sure not much but SWIM wonders if indeed it will make it uncomfortable for sublingual use

arr, awesome

Very good questions.

I don’t know if MAOIs taken sublingually will activate oral DMT. SWIM never tried that combination.

SWIM always uses sodium carbonate or calcium hydroxide whenever possible in all his extractions because he has them in food grade form, so they are safe in small amounts. As you know, because they are pretty strong bases, they can burn your mouth if placed in the mouth at a high concentration.

1 mg of calcium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide is not enough to do anything to your mouth. If you took 10 mg sublingually and it was contaminated with 10% of either base, which is highly unlikely, that would amount to only 1 mg of base.

If you’ve taken the pH up to just 11 with sodium carbonate, and not 11.4, then the water used contained less that 1% sodium carbonate and the rest of the sodium carbonate added converted to sodium chloride (table salt). A solution of 1% sodium carbonate has a pH of 11.4. As long as you don’t bring the solution to 11.4, the amount of free sodium carbonate left in your final product will be less than 1%. So if you took 10 mg of harmine that was freebased at pH 11, it would contain less than 0.1 mg sodium carbonate. If you used a buchner funnel and sucked all the dilute sodium carbonate water out of the precipitates, you'd probably have less than 0.01 mg sodium carbonate in a 10 mg dose.

If you're worried about traces of sodium carbonate being a problem, do a wash with filtered and diluted lime water. Lime water is water saturated with calcium hydroxide to 0.185 %. If you diluted lime water with 3 parts pure ware, it would contain 0.04625 % calcium hydroxide. If you washed your final product in that solution, it would wash out all the highly water soluble sodium carbonate and sodium chloride that might be present. Calcium hydroxide burns less than sodium carbonate because it’s poorly water soluble. After washing with diluted lime water, your product should be free of sodium carbonate and sodium chloride and contain less that 0.04% calcium hydroxide if sucked dry on a buchner funnel. Such product at 10 mg sublingually would contain less than 0.004 mg calcium hydroxide.

thanks ron

Hi folks.

In a few days SWIM's going to do his second harmaloid extraction, after his first half messed up attempt (much red and bad filtering yield 2g impure salts from 100g seeds).

Aside not using alcohol for this extraction SWIM is going to be using egg whites to aid the filtering process. What SWIM wanted to know was, when applying the egg whites is it more advisable to use it on the collective brew after the initial boilings or is it best to use it on each before you simmer the amount down to an easier to handle amount?

Also is it a good idea to let the mix cool down, then mix in the egg whites and then apply heat until the egg surfaces?

Thanks muchly in advance!

You're beautiful. Thanks

It's common sense really but I don't trust myself since the IPA incident.

Dagger, what's the lowest ph you can go with using the egg whites? At ph3 the egg whites just wouldn't cook for me.
Also thanks for this info, it makes filtering extremely easy and takes only 2 minutes instead of 2 hours!

took long to notice.. thanks a lot for your answers ron... I guess there wont be much problem of sodium carbonate residues then. SWIM also prefers food grade teks if possible, thats why he is happy it can be done with harmalas.

I'm curious.

What causes the yellow pigment in the water when performing a rue extraction?

I always figured it was traces of harmalas, but if this is so I've been pouring much of it down the sink.

What signs will show of removed impurities after cleaning beyond the brownish/white phase?

Hello. SWIM added HCL (a tiny little bit) on the first step of extraction - the boiling seeds part. Does that mean the alks are not going to dissolve as well if swim used vinegar?

This is true, but a some people do use Hcl. Maybe just do a little longer soaks. That way once they're in their they won't jump out.

Just spend a little more time. If you're not happy you could always squeeze out the seeds after your first boil and then the next few times around use vinegar.

I decided to clean up the harmalas I have a little more. First of all I stirred them into a jar of water and then slowly started to add vinegar.

I noticed as soon as a slight colour change happened that the solution turned clear and a small layer of darker material settled on the bottom of the jar.

So rather than adding more vinegar I let the solution settle properly over night and carefully decanted the liquid of and set solids aside to dry.

Then I took the decanted liquid and slowly added sodium carbonate. This time rather than turning yellow, first of all it turned to a milky near-white colour.

It has now yellowed slightly as much of the harmalas have crashed out.


So what happened here?

I think it might have been a bad move for you to stop adding vinegar, because if it wasnt acidic enough, then some of the harmalas would have been remained undissolved, so they would stay together with the undissolved impurities at the bottom. I would keep adding excess vinegar, too much wont hurt, and will guarantee all the harmalas are in water-soluble acetate form.

the water changing colour is perfectly normal, look at the pictures I posted some time ago, how the colours changing are related to the different forms of the harmalas (acetate, hcl, freebase, etc) in the solution or precipitating...

Yeah I'm just playing about really.

I was just interested that in reality I didn't clean anything more than I already have as I didn't do the salting step or even filter after re-dissolving. Then on top of that, the substance which settled in the jar was much darker than the harmalas I put in. There wasn't very much that settled on the jar, just barely a thin covering of what looks like tiny grains of dirt. Then in the jar where I simply rebased the decanted liquid without filtering or salting I have a much brighter shade than I had before and it's not even dry yet.

yes its quite interesting, repeating the steps yield purer product... even if each time its just a few tiny grains of dirt or so on that are removed by decanting, this already helps...

one thing that was brought up, though, I dont remember if by amor fati or infundibulum, is that in each freebasing step, some harmine (or was it harmaline?) is 'lost', because it is a bit soluble in water, in the freebase form, and does not precipitate.. I think it was 20% or something, quite significant.. So I think the ideal to clean up and not lose so much would be to repeat many times the vinegar and the salt step, and avoid repeating the freebase step until the last part...

Hmm... I haven't measured any significant losses in the original weight as of yet, but that's good to know.

Cheers.

Are you sure that adding vinegar when repeating the salting is necessary? Acetic acid is a lot weaker than HCl and I don't see how it would break up HCl salts of harmalas.

Of course if you experienced otherwise, that's a different issue...