Here's something I've been wondering lately, and trying to find factual information about it is like trying to find needles in a haystack, thanks to the current new-age fad and the endless BS-spreading websites it seems to produce. So I figured I'd ask about it here if someone has researched it more deeply.

What I'm wondering is, are the coincidences surrounding the exact time of 21 Dec 2012 11:11am GMT really coincidences, or could they be a result of human suggestibility and the subconscious need to find matching patterns? In other words, did all the sources come to the conclusion of 11:11 on their own, or was there just one source and the rest are directly linked to that?

First of all there's the Mayan calendar cycle that changes to the next one on 21 Dec 11:11. Then there's the Chinese I-Ching mathematical treatment by McKenna that points to the same exact time. Then it also happens to be the exact time of the winter solstice. (It was recently changed to 11:12, but apparently it's because of refinement of the Delta-T value so now it gets rounded up, but technically it's still 11:11) Those are the 3 main ones, there are also other things that point to that time, but they were only on the above mentioned new-age sites so there was no sources.

I guess I just have 2 main issues.

First, has anyone here studied the mathematical treatment of McKenna? Is it possible/probable that he just forcibly made it fit so that it would end on that exact time, and then later claimed that he had no idea about the whole Mayan thing, to make it sound more profound or something? How flexible is the treatment and would it be hard to make it fit on another ending time?

And second, is the Mayan calendar modeled in a way that it changes on the winter solstice exactly BECAUSE of the winter solstice, or is it totally unrelated to that?

And please for the love of god, no theories about what might happen on that date, there are already countless threads about that. This thread should be used only to discuss the significance of the coincidences of the date and time itself. Thanks.

First of all, warning: I have not studied extensively McKenna's theories, at least not further than reading his books. But I remember reading that he did adopt the end of the mayan thirteenth baktun to adjust his results. My impression is that taking the Timewave Zero outcome to an accurate-to-the-minute date is anything but a cosmic coincidence.

Quoting from here.



References are available in McKenna's wikipedia entry. Probably I started from there the last time.



I don't know if anyone here can dispute this.

Hopefully, the reality hacking project TYLER will be a success. I suppose the only way to make this date/time manifest is to do it ourselves.

“What if WikiLeaks was a sort of Wiki-BitTorrent, served by thousands of people around the world running a background process on their computers,” mused Edward Benson, a Ph.D. student at the MIT Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory.



"The syntactical nature of reality, the real secret of magic, is that the world is made of words. And if you know the words that the world is made of, you can make of it whatever you wish."
— Terence McKenna


"Power is afraid of Internet."
— Manuel Castells.

^ If Timewave Zero finally acts as a flare fired so things like this can happen, I'm OK with it.

"In this book it is spoken of the Sephiroth and the Paths; of Spirits and Conjurations; of Gods, Spheres, Planes, and many other things which may or may not exist. It is immaterial whether these exist or not. By doing certain things certain results will follow; students are most earnestly warned against attributing objective reality or philosophic validity to any of them." - Aleister Crowley

Vodsel, interesting.. I'm pretty sure I've seen a video where he says that he didn't know about the Mayan calendar when he chose the date and time. Or maybe I understood it wrong and he was in fact talking about the 16 Nov closeness to 21 Dec, which is still a coincidence but not even close to being as significant as having the exact same minute of the same day. Will have to find the video again.. But if that's true then it takes off the other coincidence and just leaves the winter solstice one.

a1pha, that might be slightly offtopic, but DAMN that was interesting.. and frickin genius.. and poetic. Thank you for linking that. I also truly hope that the project will lift off and would love to contribute to that but I dont know much about the p2p field, I guess all I can do is spread the word. I love it how creative people are using this date as a sort of self-fulfilling thing..

I understand it was a bit off-topic - but given today's date, I thought I'd share it. I am not so much a fan of all the TimeWaveZero mathematical calculations and instead looking towards things in the here and now. And as you say, it might be a more a self-fulfilling prophecy than just a numbers game.

We'll see...

Regarding the solstice bit...



Do you have any source for this minute accuracy? The mayan calendar, as far as I know, counted days. One thing is translating our precise count of the winter solstice to an ancient calendar that happens to turn the page in the winter solstice, and another thing is to attribute to that ancient calendar the minute accuracy of current approximations.



The Mayan Long Count calendar was set to end on a winter solstice. The debate is why they chose the winter solstice of 2012.

Now that you made me look for it, I couldn't actually find any credible sources for the minute accuracy of the calendar. On the wiki page there is only the date mentioned. The few sites that have it are highly questionable. I guess I made the very same error of assuming things just so I could find matching patterns as I mentioned in the OP..

So then, I guess the only reason the 11:11 time exists is because the winter solstice happens to occur at that time, and everyone else has just derived their theories from that. If the solstices themselves affect how the mayan calendar runs, then it's not a coincidence anymore, or atleast not in the same way. Thanks for clearing that up.

When one mystery is solved another one arises lol, what you quoted about the mayans predicting the exact morning of the arrival of the Conquistadors sounds pretty fascinating.. will have to look into that..

I'm not a mathemetician, but I've listened to A LOT of mckenna talks lol. The LD is this: He did not know about the Mayan calender when he first came up with the original date, which was a couple of weeks before the Mayan calendar's end/beginning.

He may have switched it after hearing about the actual Mayan date. I've also heard him say that he didnt know about the calendar and that the original date he came up with was to the day, but after some extensive amateur analysis, I've concluded that this was more of an 'act' at that point.

As for the mayan calender, that was most definitely engineered to end on a solstice, although uncanny really, since the baktun is some huge measure of time, and the solstice I believe slowly changes due to Procession: the earth's ~23 degree axis that takes 26,000 years to make a full circle - pretty Mind-blowingly accurate.

Personally, its enough for me to gather that Terence and the Mayans both ate psychedelic mushrooms and came up with some fishy map of time that both coincide almost perfectly (whats a week or two in a couple hundred thousand years?) which also both come fairly close to a solstice.

What it means...is not for me to say

Correct me if i'm wrong but apparently 12/21/2012 is not only the winter solstice but also (coincidentally or not) the end of a roughly 26,000 year cycle of the procession of the equinoxes...where the earth and sun line up more or less with the center of galactic equator on the solstice.

John Major Jenkins is a leading researcher on mayan cosmology and philosophy and has talked about this quite a bit

I have one of his books which is fascinating since he talks about all of this, and about how the mayan shaman/kings were said to journey into the center of the galaxy and all sorts of bizzareness, but heres just a interview i found that explains this whole procession thing: http://www.soundstrue.co...amefromhome=camefromhome

control + F search the page for "26,000", or just scroll down a little less than half way to find where he talks about this


p.s. Dennis McKennas book "The brotherhood of the screaming abyss" should be digitally available within the next few days on http://cognitionfactor.net/ ..this will surely give us more insight into the whole timewave zero idea

nvm, it looks like aliendreamtime beat me to the whole 26,000 year cycle thing ^__^

I did actually read about that 26,000 alignment thing, but if I understood it correctly, it's dismissed here: http://www.nasa.gov/topi...ures/2012-alignment.html


Or I guess that just dismisses the rarity of the galactic center alignment, but it's really hard to find anything official on "precession of the equinoxes". Apparently the term "axial precession" is the same thing, and on its wiki page there is absolutely no mention about it happening on 2012. Because in a way yes it has a 26,000 year cycle, but couldn't you assign the starting point of the cycle anywhere on the cycle? That added with the fact that the winter solstice and galactic alignment happen every year, I don't really see any coincidences. Or am I missing something here?

Even that interview universecannon linked doesn't really relate it to 2012, it just explains how the mayans were able to detect the 26,000 year cycle with the naked eye, which by itself is impressive I agree. But can someone elaborate on what the 26,000 cycle has to do with 2012?

On Mckenna's Wikipedia page it states that Mckenna changed his Nov 16th TimewaveZero end to Dec 21, because he thought that the Mayan's were more likely to be correct.