I have usually been somewhat a skeptic in my life. Explaining things away. Seeing the dual sides of everything. What I mean by duel sides is, when I study spiritual things or experiences I always find the physical antidote for the unexplainable. So I guess that means I have agnostic tendencies. But I have been a spiritual person and I do not see my self as an agnostic. I just tend to over analyze things. I guess it may be fear of letting go, or it could be pride. It could very well be some sort of insecurity or self esteem issue. But whatever it is I am very ready to let it go. I want to be something, not a straddler of both sides. It hasn't been rewarding for me to do be the skeptical believer. It could be viewed as a blessing in a sense but at least for a time in my spiral I would like to become stronger in the spiritual side and let go of some of the rationalizing of all that I contemplate. I seek happiness.

With that being said.

Being raised a Christian by the daughter of a Catholic family who didn't denounce Catholicism and attended Catholic church, but who did not adhere to every Catholic ritual and belief; I did have a spiritual start in life. And later in life finding paganism at an early age and practicing these things also contributed to me being a spiritual person. But as I grew and culture and technology progressed, I became more aware of science and saw how all these things related. This is the point in my life where quantum physics become my interest and where the duality started. I never encountered any entity or intelligence until about a year ago when I discovered DMT. Until then I could see how hallucinations where in some way a projection of my mind. But with the dmt experience I found that what I experienced was a third party so to speak and it was not dependent on my thoughts or actions but acted under its own free will.

Seeing all sides on every issue has led to me not really fitting in. My wife and I had a daughter a year ago. We separated a few months ago. She was unfulfilled because of her personality's need to have someone who makes her feel complete. I am not this way and I am so far not capable of being something that makes another complete. This is because I know that it is impossible for a person to TRUELY make another person complete. But somehow I feel that if I could let go of the part of me that keeps me a skeptic and keeps me from freely exploring ideas without that anchor, that I would have been a more fulfilled person my self and at least been capable of sharing the light that I feel this would produce. With this light being shared I feel as though that in itself would have been fulfilling to her. Today she has started seeking to fill that inner void she has with harmful things and people. She is unaware that it is harmful because the for the time being it does in fact fill that void.

I may not be able to help her but I feel that if I would be a better more fulfilled person if I can overcome this perceived obstacle that I am attempting to describe in this post. And that in the future not only would my relationships with others be more rewarding but that I would be a happier more fulfilled person. So I want to become more spiritual.

I'm not really seeing a question here, but have a few books I'd recommend that might help nudge you gently in the direction you're interested in going. These are all full of spiritual ideas without being overly religious. They are mostly free of dogma and superstition, emphasizing the areas where science and spirituality may have some overlap, and generally presented in a way that a rational, possibly somewhat skeptical mind shouldn't find too offputting.

First is 'The Tao of Physics', by Fritjof Capra
Next check out 'Buddhism Without Beliefs', by Stephen Batchelor
I'd also recommend 'The Universe in a Single Atom', by the Dalai Lama

I think it would be good to go through them in this order (which also happens to be the order in which they were published).

These should all be available in audiobook format if you're short on reading time, listen while you're driving around or at work, whatever works for you. You might find some ideas that can get you thinking about things in a different way, without any need to "convert" to any particular belief system.

This whole "fitting in" non sense is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated. I can say that having never "fit in," even amongst the so-called freaks.

And, if you want to become "more spiritual," whatever that means to you, DO IT. It really is that simple. You don't need to take a class or attend meetings.

Fear of enlightment One of my favorite Alan Watts talks.

Sorry about the broken link I will try to fix it.

Caducious, in my experience and in my opinion:

1) Happiness does not arise by...finding the right things to think--even though it seems natural to "think" to solve such issues.

2) Possibly the ONLY action we can take that is guaranteed to be "positive," and is overwhelmingly connected to happiness...is to love. Of course, loving people can be difficult--a spouse, for example, who can't seem to accept our love. Still, it's the ONLY thing I've ever found that is unambiguously in the RIGHT DIRECTION.

The above is not an instant answer...and it involves difficulties...and it can involve "failure."

Being "more spiritual," on the other hand, is something that MANY people do to feel better--and it seems to work for many people and...to an outsider (and a skeptic) it often seems like those people are just grasping a comforting delusion, in order to avoid facing difficult truths.

So, in my experience, people seem much more likely to FAIL to solve their existential problems, either by believing they can "think" their way out of them, or by distracting themselves with delusion, in the reflex of ignoring a problem in the hopes it will go away.

Just being open to love, OTOH, seems very useful for such problems.

Not my thread, but I am really appreciating the suggestions here. Thanks to all.

are we not all spiritual in our own way?
do you look to a leader to tell you how to live your life?
who is enlightened?
does this mean that people who are enlightened see people who are not in a different light and make judgement.
there are certain people throughout history that have helped us on our way in their own way.
but at the end of the day it is all up to you.

love alan watts.

from each religion or form of thinking just take a little bit of each.
give it a good stir, then apply what you need in your life at that time.

you are the creator and the universe,it,s all within you.

be quiete now and again and listen to your inner self.

I would say I have always wanted to be a spiritual person in that I always suspected that there was some answer or truth that, once found, would complete a person's life (I used to have a recurring dream about finding this truth). I still don't have an exact definition of what my sense of spirituality actually is, even now that I am very intimate with this truth that I dreamed up long ago and thought I would never find. Spirituality is a strange concept. It is very hard to nail down what it actually is because it usually has no concrete connection to anything in the physical world. What I'm trying to say is that, in my opinion, spirituality is not a thing, per se, that can be directly desired. More so it is an undefined word that you use to describe the aspects of your life that are not physical or are otherwise indescribable. If you have a desire for such things, then you already have a spiritual foundation. You are already on your spiritual journey. This is it, so enjoy it. Your sense of spirituality will grow as you learn to enjoy things as they are right now.

On a side note, I don't know why you equate physicalism with agnosticism and skepticism. Physicalism is a dogmatic point of view that starts with the huge assumption that the way we percieve and interpret the physical world reflects the actual nature of objective reality. Physical reality is only one interpretation of what is otherwise an incomprehensibly intricate orgy of conscious experiences.

Good luck to you and I wish you a happy and fulfilling journey.

I don't think being rational or analytic is counterproductive to spiritualism. Rather it can keep you from falling prey to charlatans and others that just want your money pretending to sell you peace of mind or whatnot. Also it can keep you from believing delusions that can harm you rather than help you on your way.

In the end I find it hard to say: I want to believe something. It's not really a process of choice IME. But then again in order to be spiritual you don't really have to believe anything concrete either. IMO what is needed is simply a sense of mystery, the mystery that surrounds us all, and the sense that there is more to the world than what meets the eye. What ever methods you apply in order to investigate this mystery, which is non-physical, is your spiritual practice... no?

But hell what do I know. For me the most spiritual thing I ever did was sell all my belongings and leave...

this is precisely what i was intending to communicate without being eloquent enough to fully manifest into words.

great post hixidom

THIS.

Hit the nail on the head.

Wow I didnt know I was getting replies. Thank you everyone for your time and thoughts!

I wrote this thread for two reasons. One was to write it down to try and help start the process. And the second was to get any thoughts on others who have contemplated things related to this.

The books where a good suggestion I will def look into. I think what my main obstacle to overcome here is would be that I have become so critical and so physical that I find it hard to trust. And in an abstract way this makes joy difficult. And although I know I have love I think that I need to work on that area of myself.

Now I am happy with who I am but I don't think that my spiritual health or lack thereof benefits anyone else or me at this point. I don't think I would be able to bring myself to let go enough to pay someone and take a magic course or anything. I wish I was that naive sometimes, but I am not.

"I don't think being rational or analytic is counterproductive to spiritualism. Rather it can keep you from falling prey to charlatans"

This is true but I think in my case I have let this rationale cover my entire life until i am cynical and it is hard to trust anything. So My goal is to become a more spiritual person and try and overcome this isolation. Which may not work, but it will be interesting to see where this goes.

I do tend to fog my points when posting, I am still kinda new at this, so bare with me here.

Thanks allot you guys, great advice.

Well put!

For the OP, I think a useful way to think about all the different beliefs and worldviews and interpretations out there is that they are all using the same source for their model, which is _____/this/here-now/sensory experience, but it isn't a word. So, ultimately, whatever THIS, sitting here staring at the screen is, it won't ever fit cleanly into anyone's box, not the atheist or the Orthodox Jew or the quantum mystic. The map ain't the territory.

This quite literally is an unfathomable mystery. It always has been and, I'd bet my life, always will be, even though nine out of ten people you meet seem sure they've figured it out and will do their best to convince you of their ideas. Spirituality, by my definition, is simply wonder at the impossibility that is EVERYTHING. Even the ugly stuff, how amazing that it exists at all. This spirituality needs no belief or practice, just your willingness to notice the beauty that is omnipresent.

However, there is a relative aspect to this absolute, and that is that there are definitely actions that you know are more in tune with your innermost sense of love and creativity. The other half of spirituality is finding the courage and gentleness to nudge yourself towards those things and away from whatever you know in your "gut" to be harmful. You could say there is a path, because everything changes, but you could also say there is no path, because you are always right here.

Another important thing to remember is that anytime *anyone* opens their mouth, no matter who they are, no matter what kind of authority they seem to be, no matter how much money or how many followers they have, whether a scientist or a guru, "The Tao that can be spoken is not the true Tao." Enjoy the wisdom that's out there, certainly, but do yourself a favor and take it lightly. It's so, so beneficial to catch onto the word-games that we're all playing. Otherwise there are all kinds of linguistic hells we can get caught up in.

This is my perspective, take it as you will.

OP your tale has struck a chord with me. Please forgive me if i have misinterpreted your post.
Do you want to become more spiritual in order to
A. fit in better
B.Fulfill your ex
C.just feel better for yourself

I don"t really know much about spiritualism but i think your questioning and desire to fulfil another is a good start.
However, i had an unfulfilled girlfriend once, there was nothing i could do to fulfil her feelings of hollow depression and emptiness. It nearly destroyed me cos i loved her so. We split and she eventually became a born again. I saw her a good 20 years later and she still had that air of loneliness ,still a bible basher waiting for a good christian boy.
i think a lot of skeptics have a burning desire to be proved wrong, but is faith over proof spirituality? Or just stupid.
i think i might have to look up spirituality in the dictionary.

Become your own lover set your lovers free,become your own god set your gods free,become your own guru set your gurus free.
Then go from there

Nice thoughts guys.

I want to become more spiritual so I can experience it for what it is. I envy those who can believe in something unquestionably. Although that is something impossible for me to do, I would still like to develop some of that part of my consciousness and try to break free of cynicism. I just have a hunch would be more fulfilled and that my future relationships would not only start out better but they would go better as well. But even more than that, I want to do it for the experience.

I believe that life is a spiral and I have come to a stagnation in my journey that has lasted a few years now. So the inspiration and growth I may experience even if it was temporary would be beneficial.

Although after speaking to you all I am starting to think that a fundamental change is not in order, I think instead just a slight shift of awareness so as to gain these new experiences.

Once again great advice. I really didn't know where I was going with this but it has seemed to help sort it all out. Plus I now have a bunch of insight to go back and reflect on as needed. Cool!

So... you want to switch off your brain and go into auto-pilot? Stop questioning things? That sounds like an easy way out man.

I think there is a big difference in becoming brain-washed and gullible, or becoming confident of your own path and yourself. In one case you believe in something someone else tells you to, or maybe even something you invented. In the other case you believe in your self... as though you had a mission, and living your life is it. You still question the world around you and your choices, but you are confident that you will find the right way because you will listen to your heart...

You see, the two can be confused, but they are not the same. And switching off your brain IMO is not a good way to go.

Aye, what he said.

And paying close attention to when one is judging or shaming or guilt-tripping oneself makes all the difference. If you feel like crap emotionally, you're depressed, or frustrated, or confused, I guarantee it is because, in some fashion, you're twisting the dagger into yourself. You can be happy even in extreme physical pain. But if you believe in the religion of "there's something wrong with me," then forget it, that's what hell is.

If you're kind, gentle, non-judgmental and encouraging to yourself, just as you would be to a little five-year-old, then the rest follows, "spirituality" and everything else. Your relationships will probably take a turn for the harmonious and you won't need to believe in things unquestioningly. You'll feel good enough that you won't need to know what the hell is really going here in this reality-thing.

Edit: I want to make clear that I'm talking about thoughts here. Whenever you feel panicky, stressed out, depressed, confused, or frustrated, you can bet that some thought is causing it, some thought which is judging, doubting, or shaming you. It can be very subtle and tricky to catch.

I have decided to reread "As A Man Thinkith", "The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius" And study meditation a little more than I have.

I did not mean I want to become a mindless follower, I just meant that I appreciate what I perceive to be some quality of their ability to accept things. I guess acceptance is what I am talking about.

But I understand where you are coming from.