What is there some sort of Gaian apocalypse now too? Added to quetzalcoatl and Terence's aliens?

The Gaia hypothesis is a cybernetic appropriation of Native spirituality on inter-connectivity. It's an insult to indigenous peoples world over, and a disservice to Greek mythology. Formed in the 1970s by a futurist, James Lovelock, no different from the technophiles like Ray Kurzweil. No account for causality, he sees the world like it's a computer.

James Lovelock was a NASA engineer, and his dark vision is an engineer’s vision. It’s a machine vision of the world. It’s not about biology. It’s a self-correcting machine that doesn’t care for us mere humans. It’s actually a piece of science fiction for a generation of middle-class liberals who know that their project failed.

I will also add that my wife had an odd experience as well, though not while sleeping but instead while meditating.


Please note that she has yet to smoke dmt or any psychadelic, but described seeing unfamiliar colors, a chrysanthemun and then a series of odd nearly indescribable visions. She did not know of the association with dmt and this particular flower but was shocked when I showed her.


we both have been seeing luminous colors in broad daylight rather frequently, too



What's going on?

the gaia theory is really just a mechanistic theory of the world..I dont really buy into that whole side of the thing..well it is valid for sure but my idea of the earth goes way deeper.

I know from first hand experience that the earth is a living, conscious being..but it is on a whole other level beyond such a dry and mechanistic view of the thing.

This is an interesting analysis...seems rather off, imo (and a bit tangential to the initial quote/usage of Gaia). Most of it seems to be disagreements on personal philosophies (i.e. no account for causality...dark vision...insult to indigenous people) and assertions that don't really hold water (i.e. it's not about biology). Biocentrism is hardly a "machine vision of the world".

Jamie, I would posit that tying together the functions/roles of organic and inorganic process is not wholly mechanistic, even though it incorporates mechanistic elements.

..ha, ha..i'm both rational and a fruitbat, so now i'm-a-gonin' in>

fairbanks and jamie..i beg to differ..the Gaia Hypothesis is a Model of a Homeostatic System which has Feedback mechanisms to attempt to preserve the Whole..just like a living organism..or a mind, for that matter..

..fairbanks..why should 'Gaia' care about You..or Us humans, if the whole biosphere is threatened..We are just another Expression of 'Gaia''s Language of dna..

NASA care's about your future more than you do it seems..

..and ? His were Angels..

the Nephilm occupy a nether region of the human psyche..the dark places of the inside..

birds who fly also laugh and sing..

yeah where is citta?

Awesome dream

So, after what I ended up with, an extremly smooth, one (real good)hit, probably subbreakthrough last night, I came out of it sort of like this.

At the parts where I could understand this computer, and it's workings, I managed to type a few things down, which I sometimes do. Little ideas, or feelings, that just want to stick around.

One was me trying to explain this 'wave' I kept feeling. This was way after the initial come up, and closed eye exploration of twisty hallways and weird, opening boxes. I was in that euphoria. And then, this like, complete wave, hitting every single one of my senses at once, hits me. Just long enough for me to wonder if this is still the spice, or what's going on, and for me to decided to just roll with it. Once I did that, it stopped. But, it was quicker than the blink of an eye. It happened again really quick after the first time, and again, I decided to not freak out, this stuff does weird things, it's cool, it stopped. That happened like three more times, in the next ten minutes or so, all around, maybe 2:30.

I also wrote about feeling like I kept getting hit, over and over again. Like.. elastic bands, flicking me in the face, just.. over and over. I could almost make out feelings, attached to the things that were flicking me. Laughing. Like, they were picking on me.

I've been getting this swimming feeling in the front of my head recently as well. Almost like there's an eel, swimming right behind my forehead. This, I'll chalk up to psychedelics.

2 days ago I did some acid and started to have some weird internal dialogue. It was what would have been words but they didn't make sense, half words mixed with sounds, sometimes echoing noises mixed with nature / bird sounds - hard to explain. Anyway as I started to notice this dialogue I realised it was familiar, I'd had these thoughts before somewhere but just couldn't put a finger on it.

Then it hit me! This was what had gone through my head on a DMT breakthrough - the Exact sounds were repeating now in my head in a loop. I then had an amazing hour of awe as I relieved that memory which I had forgotten while watching the carpet make some most beautiful patterns. The thoughts ran on all night in a loop I was sure I would never forget but today I can't remember them at all!

"fairbanks and jamie..i beg to differ..the Gaia Hypothesis is a Model of a Homeostatic System which has Feedback mechanisms to attempt to preserve the Whole..just like a living organism..or a mind, for that matter.."

I never said that it was not a valid theory nen..it just does not go as far as I do in my beliefs of what this planet really is. What you explained above is a mechanistic idea in my interpretation. The Gaia hypothesis does not go so far as to claim the earth is literally a living being that is *conscious* in the way a human being would be(or beyond a human)..and this is where my own belief goes farther. The idea of the earth actaully having some kind of soul would not be taken seriously in some of the more scientific circles that might support the gaia hypothesis.

What I am talking about is the actaul soul of this planet..and it would be more in line with sheldrakes ideas..

lol. Yeah, it was a big experience for me. I wonder what your experience is like over there. Are you the guy who sees 1111 everywhere? Dammit, every time I see 11:11 I think of you!

[quote=phyllode]fairbanks wrote:

Lead actor in the television series, Adrian Paul, explained, "The Quickening is the receiving of all the power and knowledge another immortal has obtained throughout his/her life. It is like the receiving of a sacrament or a massive orgasm."

lol. Yeah man, that's what it was like. Very good guess.

I have had some of the most unusual dreams in the past two days. I dont usually remember my dreams but these stand out like a red balloon on a blue sky. Family related dreams and nothing negative or scary just very unusual for my dreams.

Exact same situation here too. The past 5 days I've had the same reoccurring dream , or same heme in my dreams. I would try to meet up with my very best friends, all who are into psychedelics and know that there is more to life than what most perceive. Something big was happening, but I can't remember what. There was a general feeling of "the time has finally come" and i remember that i wanted to smoke some spice too. I hardly remember my dreams but these stood out clearly from the rest.

Weird, graphic dreams. Odd scenarios. Head rushes. 'Sparkly' vision at random points. No idea what it 'means', if anything, but yes, I agree something big is going on - you just need to turn on the news and watch the massive storms, earthquakes, and other phenomena that are occuring world wide.

The idea to stock up on food and fuel has been circulating my head the last couple of days.

If our earth were homeostatic, then we would be in a state of constant stability... This is obviously not the case. Look into the history of ecology and you will find that applying a homeostatic system view on nature is a myth of computer origin. It had nothing to do with nature but with cybernetic systems theory. There's a reason why the internet goes bananas over Gaia hypothesis, b/c it's a reflection of the very system that they're using. Nothing to do with actual nature.



The feedback mechanism comes from Jay Forrester, the founder of systems dynamics. He was one of the first well known computer engineers through his work at NORAD and his involvement in cybernetics. This whole Gaian idea that feedback loops stabilize nature comes from computer systems!

It's a mechanical self-regulating computer view of the natural world, wrapped up in hippie appropriation of Native spirituality and Greek mythology. This all attracts the technophile new age types that are pretentious about environmentalism and get laughed at by real heads. It's an insult to the environmental movement and indigenous culture.

Also, please actually look into the history of ecology in relation to cybernetics before you just dismiss this as not holding any water.

If you want to gain an understanding on cybernetics relationship with ecology since the start of the 20th century, check out this documentary overview by BBC journalist Adam Curtis: http://thoughtmaybe.com/...nes-of-loving-grace/#top



Terence said it was aliens that would pick us up through language. Aliens & Archetypes Interview w/ Terence McKenna

..yeah fairbanks! we're the stupid mental-virus infected monkeys who put the system out of homeostasis..

your idea of a 'perfect' system is the mechanistic view..

viruses and fevers would be my analogy

lighten up!

What the hell does that mean???????? I think this annoys anyone who is trying to understand what you meant. Who is this "Them" that your idea of Gaia doesn't like? What a rather absurd notion, sort of like every other religion with its "Chosen Few."

By the way, your notion of "annoying the rational" is an extremely myopic viewpoint. The key word is BALANCE. Yes, contemplate how awesome it would be to jump out a window and fly through the clouds, but use your RATIONAL mind to decide if this is good idea or not.

I forgot to mention I posted the experience that this thread is based on here: The Awakening!

Hardly.

See: Deep Ecology

Some of the most notable ecologists/environmentalists/anti-industrialists ascribe to models that mesh quite nicely with Lovelock's.

Also, your presentation of "indigenous culture" as a uniform (or at least singular) entity is absurd. "Appropriating" from a non-existent entity is impossible. If something is so commonplace as to be found in multiple socio-cultural understandings, how can you say it has been appropriated by one group and not another?

Paradigms, whether indigenous, industrial or otherwise have a habit of creating very similar "mythologies" and "theories"...this is why people talk about certain "archetypes" appearing cross-culturally. This is also why jamie advocates for the telling of new stories.

And...what nen said

For what it's worth..my understanding of native american culture would lead me to think they would not have much problem with the idea of these planet itself having a sort of metabolic rythm that seeks to maintain homeostasis. Our own bodies are this same way, and so is the earth. I cant speak for all native american peoples, and most of what I know comes from anthropology classrooms and not really living with them so take that for whatever it is..

However trying to say that Native American peoples would be completely in line with the parameters of the Gaia systems theory is not really accurate. Native American peoples play a role in active participation in the "metabolism" of the earth through practices like the rain dance..they pray to the creator and commune with elemental earth spirits of places and things like the "manitou"..this is a much deeper paradigm they hold than just a gaia systems theory..it is much more like activly dreaming with the world. You can observe this with most indigenous peoples around the planet.

I dont see humans as a parasite on the planet either(though we do play that role at times)..I think something far deeper than that is really going on..and this is where the gaia theory sort of draws a line. I think that the world dreams..I also think that every process is analagous to every other process on some level..everything mirrors everything else..the same struggles you observe in your life are played out on planetary and cosmic scales.

But hey, I also believe that culture is somewhat analagous to an epigenetic stresser on the planet..you can see this directly in the way that any given ecosystem will be expressed based on the cultural paradigms of the peoples within it. You could have 2 identical ecosystems, one might end up as downtown NYC and the other virgin forest protected by it's peoples.

For whatever reason, I was in an unexplainably bad mood yesterday, my general mood was all over the place, up and down side to side, it's been like this for months and months now, it feel's like I'm waiting for something to happen, a lot of my friends have been feeling the same way too.

I also keep getting this strange feeling every now and then, even if I think about the feeling it occurs, like I'm about to leave my body or something 0.o it's bizarre, such peace and unexplainble feelings are beyond words I feel..

Something seriously strange is going on

Sure... civilized and domestic peoples have a mental virus, but the "system" of nature wasn't homeostatic before us and won't be after us. You need to get out of that systems theory view to describe nature, it's not based on reality besides inside of computers. Computers are self-regulating and homeostatic, nature is dynamic.



WHERE did I present my idea of a perfect system? I'm against systems theory views on nature. The Gaian hypothesis as well as the beginning of western ecology was based on this mechanical perfect view of nature. Go look at the history of the word 'ecosystem' invented by Arthur Tansley who extrapolated on Freud's idea that the brain was an electrical machine. Tansley thought he could apply this to all of nature so he called it the 'ecosystem'. So actually the whole history of western ecology is a mechanistic view on the world my friend.



If anybody needs to lighten up, it is the Gaian theorists. You and Phyllode described Gaian's best,"Protect thyself from the Passover. Gaia doesn't like Them." "why should 'Gaia' care about You..or Us humans". If that isn't the most annoying dark pessimism then I don't know what is...You're no better than the fanatical religious right, the only difference is you are pretentious about environmentalism. Not to mention the fact that you separate the world from us. We are apart of the world, and 'Gaia' isn't punishing 'us', we are punishing ourselves.



How are you proving anything by linking to the deep ecology wiki that hardly even mentions Gaian hypothesis? Who are all these noble ecologists that mesh with Lovelock? Have you actually studied ecology or did you just read up a little on the "deep ecology" wiki?

Contemporary ecology says that the environment is dynamic and unpredictable. The Gaian hypothesis and ecologists from the 50s and 60s believed that the environment is a predictable machine that self regulates and is always striving for balance. If you actually look into Lovelock, Gaian hypothesis history, and 50s-60s ecological history, you will find it's connection to cybernetics and computer systems theory. Daniel Botkin did a study out in Isle Royale in Lake Superior on moose and wolf populations to see if their 'ecosystem' was predictable and self-regulating like Gaian's assume, and in fact found the opposite that there was constant change in dominance of wolf to moose to flora population, it was all in a state of dynamic unpredictability.

It doesn't take more than a few months studying nature to find that it isn't this perfect little machine, it is very complex and dynamic. Western ecology up until recently has had a simplified view of nature that only sees it as a closed system unaffected by causality. Gaian and cybernetic/systems theory views on nature have never been proven in actual studies on nature, but only on studies of COMPUTER MODELS of nature.



How did I present indigenous culture as uniform? The Gaian hypothesis is the one appropriating and turning indigenous spirituality and greek mythology into uniform as smoke and mirrors for the reality that their theory is based on cybernetic computer system theory.

Again, here is a documentary from BBC Adam Curtis about the influence on cybernetics in ecology: http://thoughtmaybe.com/...nes-of-loving-grace/#top Part 1 is about economy and cybernetics so you can skip that, but part 2 is on ecology and "shows how our modern scientific idea of nature, the self-regulating ecosystem, is actually a machine fantasy. It has little to do with the real complexity of nature. It is based on cybernetic ideas that were projected on to nature in the 1950s by ambitious scientists. A static machine theory of order that sees humans, and everything else on the planet, as components – cogs – in a system. But in an age disillusioned with politics, the self-regulating ecosystem has become the model for utopian ideas of human ‘self-organizing networks’ – dreams of new ways of organising societies without leaders, as in the Facebook and Twitter revolutions, and in global visions of connectivity like the Gaia theory. This powerful idea emerged out of the hippie communes in America in the 1960s, and from counterculture computer scientists who believed that global webs of computers could liberate the world. But, at the very moment this was happening, the science of ecology discovered that the theory of the self-regulating ecosystem wasn’t true. Instead they found that nature was really dynamic and constantly changing in unpredictable ways. But the dream of the self-organizing network had by now captured our imaginations – because it offered an alternative to the dangerous and discredited ideas of politics."