What does it feel like?

The only time I have experienced what I think was ego death I felt as if there was an even higher "super-ego." It was as if no matter how hard you try to escape ego it is so essential that it will trick you into believing that you have overcome it so that it can manifest into a super-state where you are unaware of its presence.

Would really appreciate any insight to this.

I think it's something that takes time. A lot of observation and awareness of your ego tendencies and dependency. Until the point where you've become so aware and experienced at the observer position that it just drops/dies w/o you realizing it.

Here's a great article about ego death. http://deoxy.org/egofalse.htm

Also, I recommend the 'ego-death' movie, Revolver!

Makes sense. I'll look into that.

It's when you lose the ability to distinguish yourself as a subjective observer from what it is that is perceived (that you are observing). It comes in various gradations, and so it's not all black and white. In some cases, there may be forms of your "ego" remaining intact, though not in its normal hyperactive form, and other times "you" are gone along with everything else. You are witnessing and experiencing something, but there's no one really behind the wheel to make judgements of what it is your are experiencing or thinking...no one's home to do the thinking...or maybe someone else entirely

i dont think the ego can simply die i see it as your ego being manipulated to the point you cannot recognize it and it becomes something else something new momentarily

I disagree. There are many egoless people out there. It's a very real phenomena of the psyche as charted by psychoanalysts. It's the feeling of oneness and lack of separation from the world around you. You are completely interconnected and unaware of the self/ego. It has happened on many of my psychedelic exps including my very first one with mushrooms. As far as getting there w/o a psychoactive substance and remaining egoless constantly, there's meditation, yoga, other trance therapy etc, hence why I said before it takes a lot of time and practice in awareness and observation of the ego. Then it just drops/dies, nirvana, awakening, enlightenment, all one in the same.

One day I will understand more clearly. For now I have a small preview of this effect which reminds me of a distinctive LSA trip where I saw myself as a machine more or less that has built in cameras and recording devices to interact with the brain and keep it running but association with those events and calling them my own would be false.

Very cool dot. I had a similar vision on ayahuasca last week. I was completely unaware of reality or my self. I was the ground, underground to be specific, watching the inner-workings of the machine of mother earth. It was a hyper-awareness though, so everything was sped up and dramatized with color accentuation, really weird shit. But I still consider it of my self. B/c if we believe in that ego-less space of oneness and inter-connectivity than these visions and reality are non-dualistic. Reality is from one self, but self is of reality; one. Premium paradox, ya dig?

When a baby is born, according to neurologists, it has no ego, no sense of "I", and does not distinguish a separation between itself and the world around it. That baby's parents are extensions of itself, which may be why they get so frustrated when we clueless adults don't understand their needs- it feels like a malfunction of selfhood. Gradually, through experiences like these, the child builds up distinctions between itself and the world, but this is a learned thing; it's a reaction to the push-pull of the world around it, and as such a necessary survival mechanism.

As the child grows it develops a narrative about itself; "I like bananas but hate melon"; I am good at baseball but feel embarrassed when I make a mistake", etc, up to the entire elaborate stories we build around ourselves; our tastes, inclinations, and the way we see the world around us; and more importantly, how we wish the world to perceive us. Because these things are tied to the function of surviving and thriving in a group society, our minds are constantly honing this thing, and as we relate to the world around us, we see it through the filter of someone possessing this thing, and it effects everything we see and do. Nonetheless, in many ways the ego can be seen as a construct of language, although it does have strong bioligical underpinnings.

In a powerful psychedelic state, we leave this heavy, cumbersome thing behind (or at least parts of it). Many who experience ego loss, even many times, often feel giddy about it; "Holy cow, I cant believe i always carry that thing around... What a relief!", although it can also be shocking and disorienting- some even confuse it with real death, or think they have lost their minds.

So I don't really think of the ego as being a distinct part of the mind, but rather a filter that the mind interfaces reality through. It serves many necessary functions: interacting with others is made easier, and possibly richer, because of it. I'm an artist, and in some ways my ego is my brand; people pay not just for the work itself but for the value of the artist as perceived within society. Ego is involved in almost every conscious thing we do. Our egos sit and look over our shoulders as we sit here typing about the ego. I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I'm interested in hearing your responses to this post, as that reflects the way I am perceived in the group here. Hey, I'm just a damn primate, gimme a break.

On the other hand, being aware of your ego, knowing when and why your decisions and perceptions are effected by it, can be very liberating. It's great not to worry about your unglamorous car or shoes or whatever, when so many people get absolutely immersed in these concerns. That way you can live your life according to what you feel is right, as opposed to what you think others might want. I think that psychedelics can give us the perspective to understand these things better and to make permanent changes to purselves in that direction.

Guyomech says it best!



Oh wait, that's ego gratification, I take it back!!
Or do I?
You decide!

I get what you guys are saying, great responses btw. It's kinda like the matrix reloaded when neo entered the "Real" world I had a feeling he was still in the matrix.

Wake up, Neo...

The Matrix has you...

Philosophy and the Matrix

@ Guyomech....Nail > Head =

Also read somewhere: studies show that babies only develop the ability to 'remember', via neural mapping, at around 18 months...seriously, can You remember being 2 years old?
It's anybodies guess as to what it must be like to be an very young infant...pretty trippy I would imagine...

Ego is the 'dualistic spanner in the works'...obliterate it and truth unfurls...

Yeah, watching our little sproglet in action, it's easy to imagine it being a real trip... She gazes at things with absolute wonder, like they must appear magical. Without a clear pre-installed impression of a thing, that thing must be intangible, changing, until finally a solid picture is formed. And we all know how much fun it can be to babble senselessly while having a good fry...

Guyomech's explanation very well describes "the ego" as it's meant in terms of psychology. But I think there's more to the "ego" in spiritual terms (which I mostly take from the Buddhist perspective).

From that more general perspective the ego is a kind of interface shell that comes with WRONG (but useful) prejudices: things are "other," and need to be either grasped or rejected. That's sort of the "basis" of the ego--it's a machine that parses reality into that framework. And that shell can remain even when the "psychological ego" breaks up/dissolves.

I've always especially been struck by the Zen monk Bassui's personal koan: "Who?" Whatever his mind experienced he would ask "Who?" Meaning who/what is experiencing this. When he had an answer to THAT he would ask "Who?" Who knew the answer he was experiencing, and so on. Supposedly, that's how he found a deep enlightenment.

And it's good intellectually, because you can always notice your own duality: there's always a "you" that notices that "you" have a thought, and you can "know" you still have an "ego" (i.e., a machine that the real "you" is running) when you CAN ask the question "Who?" The goal then becomes to become one with the fundamental "Who?" and at that point there is no duality anymore.

this is what i strongly suspect. real ego death would leave you disabled at best. most people i've seen or read or heard of with it seem to exhibit a perverse egotism that compensates for weakness by both denying it matters and aggrandizing themselves enough to declare it the result of some obscure form of greatness. the selling point for their books and tapes would be narcotic spirituality.



"Who?" me. "Who?" me. "Who?" me. "Who?" me. "Who?" me. "Who?" me. "who is asking?" me. "then who is answering?" me. "so you're talking to yourself?" yes. "so what's the question?" there is no question. it wasn't my idea to ask who, it's just tradition. people get anxious or confused and become susceptible to the fancy of those who are not, attempting to purchase peace with faith. "what a depressing state of affairs!" indeed, Abrazaderas, indeed. "i suppose that we have to stop talking to ourselves at some point."
yep. at least as far as this runaway example of... well i don't see the point. who? me. the question feels asinine.

I find myself in a conundrum of this sorts at numerous points throughout any given day. I'll have an unpleasant, reflexive thought that seems clearly to be a reaction of the ego. So then, "I" begin scolding my ego...but isn't the voice I'm scolding with the ego's voice? It sort of seems like we have a bunch of egos who simultaneously hate themselves, and at the same time have one of the strongest psychological self-defense mechanisms that we know of. Usually when I follow a line of thought through like this, it either results in brief clarity, or just a mental fog, so I just try and "reset" and move on.

Same here global."the ego voice" isn't 'you' in the sense of your present physical being. "the ego voice" is more or less my subconscious mind manifest in thought. It feeds on my fears, doubts, and insecurities, controlling or even paralyzing my actions. It's the ultimate con artist and procrastinator. It's your greatest enemy. It's hard growing up in techno-industrial civilization b/c this sucker becomes powerful. We've accumulated many fears, doubts, and insecurities, self worth or lack there of, before we've even graduated highschool. What's worse is that we truly perceive it as 'ourselves', in reality it is simply our residual self image. It doesn't hold merit if we are present, aware, in a state of love, trance, meditation, psychedelic journey, but it loves when we over think things in difficult situations.

Here's some scenes from Revolver that pertain to this:

Abraz, I wouldnt be so quick to dismiss Swimfriend's koan, especially with such derision. There wouldn't be such a deep ancient tradition of meditation if there wasn't some kind of concrete reward. The idea is that, under enough examination, many aspects of the self reveal themselves to be, in very real ways, illusory. It's way more than just a mindless Moebius strip of who/me.

Yes, but the point is, what is "me?" What are you? The question is very simple, but what it's pointing to is the most intense, mind-blowing explorations a human being can have. (And be warned, it can really undermine any sense of normality, because everything one thinks of as 'life' is touched by this question.)

"What am I?"

"I'm me."

That's when you try to find the 'thinker' who says that. "Who is thinking this thought?"

It might take months, or years, to really let this question sink in. And of course it would feel asinine at first, as we come to take our identity as a 'me' inside our skin, driving our body for granted. "Of course I'm me." That really means nothing, it's just a bunch of nonsense syllables really that stand in for an identity. It's like a thin sheet of gauze covering up a bottomless hole.

The answer to the question "What am I?" has nothing to do with language, it isn't a thought.