Jamie, I apologize upfront, I broke your post apart because I really wanted to respond to a lot of parts of it...not just to take your words apart. Also apologize for the resulting wall of text...
jamie wrote:^yes but many people dont have that luxury. What is some guy sitting in a jail cell for some victimless "crime" possibly going to be able to do to make a change?
He can start by transforming his mind so that when he gets out he can take an active role in society. Yes a lot of drug users are in jail, but the VAST majority of people in jail are not exactly the most up standing people you'd ever meet. Does that mean they deserve to be there? Of course not. But it does mean that damn near everyone can make a difference. Gandhi was in jail and he spread love and hope. You can make a difference anywhere you are.
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Or a single mom who has to work 2 jobs that pay nothing just to be able to feed and cloth her kids at walmart?
Same thing, though she is actually free so she could go donate time at a food shelter. Take her kids hiking into the woods and clean up the trash while there (My dad used to do this with me as a child). She may be poor, but taking positive action starts with changing the underlying mind. Just being positive helps the world in a small way. A lot of small way's adds up. The truth is she could do almost anything other than focus on how bad things are that she is powerless to change...
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I just dont think that everyone is in the position to be able to act like you guys are saying..and this is why people feel helpless and stuck and turn their anger towards the system in general.
All I'm saying is that everyone can chose in any moment to embrace positive qualities or negative qualities. Obviously a rich man has more means to effect greater change in society than a poor person, but then not alway's. When a human mind is empowered, completely empowered, it is almost unstoppable. Money or not, it's like the Universe opens up and creates a path for those that want to lead. Now the question in my mind is how the heck to we get people empowered like this? Heck I do I learn to stay empowered like this?
Quote:Some people do not have the luxury to stop working and go live at some protest site, or stop buying cloths at walmart, support fair trade and buy only organic food from local farmers etc..and the ones that can do that usually do.
Personally I don't think sitting at a protest site is very often the best idea. The occupy movement, which I supported early on, failed to form into a group that would make active change. Many just wanted to over throw the system, but that is beyond short sited and so many people would get hurt in the process. Ultimately no one takes them serious and you know why? Because they are just sitting around protesting/critisizing. The members of the Occupy movement that really got it are the ones staying in school getting law degrees, they are the ones actively participating in local politics, etc. They are not the ones still occupying sites holding up signs. Protesting has it's place for sure. But effecting real change requires working the system.
How many people go to local town hall meetings? Costs nothing. How many run for office or ask to pitch in and help a person with good ideas get elected? Cost nothing...or minimal. BTW I do not run for office and I very seldom go to town hall meetings. I am not pointing fingers here, just offering an alternative view.
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My point here is that there are many people walking around that carry a large burden or sorrow...many people I think dont even know how to be positive because noone has ever given that to them..they are used to this rat race mentality where one person tries to climb over the other.
^This. This is the root of the problem. I agree wholeheartedly with Buddhism's take here. The individual has to change on the inside first. However, I part way's with many other meditators that never get off the mat and help in the world. This is why it is so vital to help people defocus on all that is wrong. God it is so easy in this world to focus on injustice because there is so much of it. But the more we focus on something the more we become it. These people stuck in the rat race need help the most and honestly a lot of these people have plenty of means, but the are to attached to the idea (even if unconscious) that they have to keep up with the Jones'. If they can learn to free their minds in even a small way like some here have done they would be trapped less in the rat race. Learning to simply desire less is a great way to reduce suffering and negativity. It's also a great way to bring about positive change in the world.
I do understand that there are also a lot of truly poor people that barely find food to live on. They need change on the inside more than anyone else.
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Of course this is not everyones experience but there are people who have only been shown that and it is all they know. Noone like it, but they live with it and end up bitter about it. I can totally understand that.
I understand it as well, but I also understand that if I can convince them to not become jaded then not only do I help them not suffer, but ultimately I help the whole planet out a little bit more. BTW I am no saint here. I'm just taking the side of positive action. I won't pretend that I never sit around and bitch about things. I do, I just don't think it's the best use of my time and I try to do it less and less.
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I dont believe that most people have bad intentions. Most people I think mean well..whatever that means to them, which does not necessarily reflect reality all the time.
I also agree with you here. Most people feel utterly powerless, however they are not. We need to convince people that they are empowered to make positive change. Who say's only strong emotions like greed and fear can drive the world? Certainly not me.
Life is not easy for most of us. Rising up and taking part in the world around you is sincere hard work. Change NEVER comes from those that just want to hole up away from everyone else and be left alone....those people are honestly at the mercy of the system...and I fight those tendencies in myself often.
Effecting change is a big deal, but it can be done. People can learn to farm sustainably, they can learn to read instead of watching TV. They can learn to enjoy things like walks in the park with loved ones instead of etc, etc, etc, . We all have choices and our individual choices collectively add up to the world we live in.
Change one persons mind and convince him to do the same. Then change another's mind and another's. Pretty soon you get an exponential radius of positive thought and action emanating from a central locus. This is real karma. It happens in real time and it never stops happening. Watching the poll results in the USA right now is almost proof of that. Can people's opinions really change that fast? Yes.
I mean just think of the profundity, and I know you have Jamie, of how interconnected we all are. I mean seriously. We walk around, all most everyone on the planet, acting like we are some sort of individual with rights. Yet none of us could ever survive alone on the moon. We are nothing without the trees to provide clean air or the rivers to provide water or the soil to provide food. The trees are nothing with sun, rain, and soil. The chain of cause and effects leading up to this exact moment in time are almost infinite in number,...perhaps they are infinite in number? We are where we are right now because it's exactly where we as a living biomass have decided to be. For me it helps me check myself. I want change to...badly, but I'm 1 of 7 billion.
I need to reach out to more and more people to both share my views and to receive their views. Together we can all learn to live on this planet together, but at some point we literally have to start thinking less as individuals and more as a whole...and this has to start first and foremost with the people that can actually wrap their minds around the unity of this entangled web of living biomass called earth. We have to be willing to work for change and give up expectations of results. Just changing yourself is indeed changing the world and most certainly it changes the world from you POV massively.
If your religion, faith, devotion, or self proclaimed spirituality is not directly leading to an increase in kindness, empathy, compassion and tolerance for others then you have been misled.