Listen man, you made the blanket statement that Hermes was the god of language. That was one of his many attributes that I listed as multiple correspondences remember: fairbanks wrote:protector and patron of literature and poety but as well as thieves, herdsmen, invention and trade, athletic and sports. So if anyone was rushing their mythology, it was you my friend, putting the blanket of language over Hermes. In fact in the Homeric Hymns he is depicted as a trickster with words where the Muses chastise him as a baby for trying to talk his way out of predicament. "We know how to speak much that is false but seems like the truth, and, if we like, we also know how to speak the things that are true." - Muses. Which is ironic since you're trying to piece this who language puzzle together. So if anything he'd be the god of FALSE language. But we know this is not true, b/c he is depicted as the god of boundaries jumping between the mortal and divine realms constantly. Language was one of his many attributes, like most mythological gods.

Again, like I said in my first post to you, Mercury was god of trade. Mercury: Latin word merx ("merchandise"; compare merchant, commerce, etc.),mercari (to trade), and merces (wages). When Hermes was re-written with Mercury they were using Herme’s trait of trade. Stop putting this blanket of language over everything to connect your dots. It sounds like you’ve got some serious selection bias if you’re only pulling that out of this mythology to present your case.

And remember what Terrence said, "Culture is the effort to hold back the mystery, and replace it with a mythology" ~~~ "This is something, culture is not your friend. Culture is for other people's convenience and the convenience of various institutions, churches, companies, tax collection schemes, what have you. It is not your friend. It insults you. It disempowers you. It uses and abuses you. None of us are well treated by culture." -Terence McKenna

In regards to the bee-headed shaman rock art, you are completely off. First off, the Tassili n’Ajjer (plateau) is no older than 10,000 years as dated by optically stimulated luminescence on the plateau’s sediment. That means that the oldest rock art in there dates only as far back as the Neolithic era and as early as the beginning of the Christian Era. Almost every source you’ll find about the bee-headed shaman dates it around 6,000-9,000 BC meaning anywhere in the Neolithic era.

Also, Terrence wasn’t the first to give his interpretation of this rock art. Back in the 30s when Henri Lhote was in Tassili n'Ajjer he used the term "martian faces". Then later in the 60s Erich Von Daniken dubbed this alien notion a "serious possibility." It went as far as Jean-Loic Le Quellec interpreting it as martians! & Ethnobotanist Giorgio Samorini said the fungoid features of the shaman where rather morning glories instead of mushrooms. So you see there were a lot of different 'far out' theories of this rock art over the past century, it's not like TM just hopped on a discovery, more like just continued the radical lineage. In fact it was more like a manufactured discovery, as he only used his wife's dramatized re-drawing in his book Food of the Gods.

Original:



Kat Harrison-McKenna's Drawing:



As you can see she decided to add in a lot and spice everything up. The original rock art is nowhere near as dramatic as she portrayed. Even a lot of the patterns and lining were change, not to mention how many more mushrooms she added after the original 4 that were in the original.

Anyways. Please tell me how the cross of agadez

is related to this rock art. I would love to know. You seem to just bob and weave between mythology with selection bias to prove your standpoint.

Not trying to take anything away from your subjective exp with mushrooms, they're definitely a catalyst for creativity. But to apply all this objective occult theory to it is a bit annoying.

Also, in regards to your shpeel about the plastic. A) dude is not in a kayak but in a canoe lol. B) industrial nonylphenols DO not dissolve in sea water C) even the plastic that does break down makes it worse with smaller pieces and plastic particles in the water. You think that the plastic disappears if it starts to dissolve? No, it makes shit even worse!



In regards to the plastic that can't dissolve into tiny pieces/particles, the debris in the gyres reach concentrations of 20,000 pieces per square kilometer...that’s just shy of two pieces every 1000 sq feet. Imagine walking down a sidewalk (about 4ft wide). You’d encounter a piece of plastic debris every 100-150ft.

You are right that there is plastic patches in every ocean. The plastic patch in the atlantic is just as bad despite less press than that of the pacific.

Hm. You seem the type to love scholarly debate. Prove yourself right! Prove the other guy wrong! A lot of your posts in this thread seem....a little raging. You even "lol" at me for mistaking a canoe for a kayak? Oh I get it, hahahaha, this guys mistook a canoe for, get this--a kayak! What a maroon! What are we competing over anyway? Fine, get out as kleenex cause you are going to cream your pants right now--I admit it, I was wrong and you are smarter than me.

Just kidding. But maybe I am mistaken.

Blanket statements that I made about a given mythological figures attributes....hermes had more role than one. Really, arguing about mythology is silly. you get nowhere with it. Well, you get a lot of wars when people take it literally...but you got your knickers all in a bunch over me stating that hermes was a god of language. Is this semantics? Did i say he was THE god of language? Thoth taught writing to the egyptians. hemers and Thoth were amagated into hermes tresmigistus (which i mispelled). hermes was the messenger of the gods, a trickster....kind of a psychopomp type of figure. Read the mythologies of the world, check out some Joseph Cambell--the trickster/psychopomp/messenger archetype pops up in many mythologies--often being associated with language, writing and magick.


Anyway, I'm seriously done with it. Lighten up dude.


The cave painting you just posted very much changes things. I'd seen that one before--for some reason, I thought it was a different bee headed guy. Now it turns out kat harrison "restored" the original? Maybe the original had a whole lot less mushroom iconography to it?

Perhaps the agadez cross is much less like unto the cave painting than we thought. Go ahead and bust a nut over that last sentence

then again....The "restored" version also has hand prints. Did she add those too? Or did she faithfully restore the thing, just bring out faded bits, reverse the image black and white and let us see what was there?

Also, in the original it almost looks like this bee-headed guy is wearing a loin cloth that hangs low, whereas in the resored version it appears to be his dong hanging there.

I don't know...and personally, I shant bang my head against the wall trying to prove the unprovable.

Peace.

no hard feelings man. don't take it personal. can't really understand a person's emotions or feeling over the internet...it's a forum though, a place to debate...I'm not the type of person to debate but when I'm on a forum I'm balls to the wall. There's a lot of disinformation out there, it's good to give counter points etc...sorry if you think I'm heated, it's just my writing style.

very true that we don't need to bang our heads against the wall trying to prove the unprovable. like TM said, all this mythology stuff is just a cover up of culture for the fact that it's all really a mystery. no need to connect the dots and do some selection bias to show how this came from that from this. it's a worm hole homie.

Yep. Would love to talk about it over a beer or two. No Hard feelings at all, love a good discussion ( I'm Italian) but writing has its limits.

One word...Emoticons...

They may be silly smiley faces but they can really convey meaning/feeling and emotion when used in context.. and help dispel misunderstanding

Hilarious... the military. I lost you guys. I have to prove to you that we are the dominant specie on the planet? WTF are you talking about?

uhh what are YOU talking about? I never argued against us being the most dominant..I stated that this is true, but that this is NOT proof that we are the most intelligenmt. Please read my posts before responding.

hahah so true. but not really what I meant in that context. he was coming at me as being some crazed debating nut job know it all. but this is an internet forum, the perfect place to debate!! I don't debate people in the real world, cuz that's just some pompous shit. the powerful personality always wins. the forum is the proper place to bounce opinions, facts, etc, to come to conclusion. if you put crazy comments out there, expect someone to counter the shit and be ready to back it up... I just didn't appreciate the ad hominem, when he doesn't know me from adam. IMO this isn't really a place to bring in all the emotions and personal stuff, leave it at the door (front page).

To provide some closure for this thread, I'd like to post this tribute to Terence McKenna's life called "Deep Dive into the Mind of McKenna". It sheds some light on who he was behind the scenes of his public persona and cult like status and struggles with the very medicine he preached. It's a reminder that tripping isn't just some magic carpet ride to an evolved cyborg state, rather reflection of the deepest self.

So the dominant specie is not the most intelligent one. Interesting. I need to ask an opinion to my bottleneck dolphin friend. Oh wait, he can't write yet. I'll wait a couple of thousand years then.

All this started because I said I liked McKenna's theory of the stoned ape...

whatever it's snowing in Tahoe.

Me and you get into some fisticuffs, you're smarter than me, but I whoop that ass. Dominance doesn't necessarily mean greater intelligence. In terms of human species as a whole, our dominance actually can be defined by a lack of intelligence.

Here's a great movie, just for you MA: The Superior Human?

"The idea that humans are superior to all other life forms is a fundamental underlying premise of western culture. It is an old historical idea, rooted in colonialism, and is embedded in religion and science. It is one of the root causes for destruction of the natural world, animal cruelty, war, the extinction of species and other immense problems. The Superior Human? challenges this arrogant and self-destructive ideology; unwinds the myths, using examples and ‘common sense’."

I've read that dolphins sleep one brain hemisphere at a time. Can you imagine consciousness as not a linear progression from less to more intelligence? One would think that the delphine mode of consciousness is utterly different than our own....should we debate which is "better"? Sleeping with half the brain awake--what's it like when they dream? Perhaps you can ask a bottlekneck friend all sorts of questions--but you may need to wait a few hundred thousand years till you evolve to it's "level".

Which is better, an apple or a pear? Which is more correct, your version of a particuliar deity or the next guys? Why is yellow? How intelligent is an ant? Is an ant even an individual--as a member of a seemingly collective mind comprised hundreds or more ants, what can we really know about it's mind?

It's easy to make assumptions.

Confucious say "quick to judge, slow to understand".

ANd your point is? WIth all respect for dolphins and all the other beings populating the planet, none of them has the intelligence to modify their own environment, build technology, or escape the food chain... But you are saying the they are better? What does it means? Better for what? Me evolve at a dolphin level? And I am the quick to judge? You make no sense at all.

Our dominance is defined by our technology, art, history, literature, architecture, poetry, explorations of this and other planets, exploration of our minds, chemistry, physics, mathematics.

Find me another specie on the planet as capable and we can talk about it. Sorry, we have the responsibility and the burden of the planet. Not ants, not whales. Us. Dominance absolutely means more intelligence. which means survival.
and the capacity to build a weapon or a trap, and catch or kill a bigger and stronger opponent.

"Dominance absolutely means more intelligence"

Source?

This is just a naive statement to make, for obvious reasons.

Dominance might mean a different kind of intelligence, but not necessarily more intelligence.

...and you do know, that we have not escaped the food chain right?..cus that really does not make any sense. Are you a breatharian?

You can go look at the research done on cetacean intelligence if you want to..everything is there to conclude that they have a capacity for intelligence that matches our own. You can refute this all you want with more fallacy arguements but it does not really hold up against scientific data tht claims otherwise.

How is this intelligent if it is destroying the only home we have and causing our species as a whole to devolve and degenerate. If anything it displays the ignorance of our suicidal tendency in techno-industrial progress. Like I said earlier, dominance doesn't necessarily mean intelligence. We haven't escaped anything. We are apart of the earth, not above or beyond it. Please check yourself before you wreck yourself, b/c techno-industrial modification is bad for your health, it come's real stealth.



Capable of what? Why give us so much positive credit for the amount of genocide, inequality, and ecological destruction we've incurred? He who lives in glass houses shouldn't throw stones at others. Please actually watch that documentary on the myth of Human Superiority before spitting out humanist bullshit. Put us on a pedestal somewhere else. We are taking no responsibility for our planet at all. We in the civilized west only hold as many capabilities as military occupation and resource extraction allow us. It's up to you to find new alternative capabilities in non co-operation with this system, along with resistance against it.



NOT AT ALL. I'm more intelligent than my closest homie but he could give me a beat down at the drop of a dime. Intelligence is kind of frivolous in our objective world, it is the smoke and mirrors for the physical hand of the military to procure this techno-industrial progress that we perceive as our intellectual dominance.

These words, 'intelligence' and 'technology' have been deeply manipulated in favor of western dominance. These words are used to cover up and make the public ignorant to the destruction needed to facilitate this techno-industrial growth. The hidden hand of silicon valleys' intelligent technology is actually in the form of a fist in the military. We claim that all of our destructive progress is in the name of intelligence and technology and that we're moving towards utopia--but reality check--I just defined insanity. We can't keep doing the same thing over and over, destruction upon destruction, to allow for growth upon growth in hope this will eliminate that part about destruction. Remember where you came from and the natural abundance of earth, don't fall into the cybernetic techno-trippy-hippy trance. I know we're all on the internet so it's hard for you to take a second and look at yourself, but thankfully we are all psychedelic practitioners, so we do get that chance every now and then.

"...There is a notion gaining credence that the Free Market breaks down national barriers, and that Corporate Globalization's ultimate destination is a hippie paradise where the heart is the only passport and we all live happily together inside a John Lennon song. (" Imagine there's no country..." But this is a canard. What the Free Market undermines is not national sovereignty, but democracy. As the disparity between the rich and poor grows... Corporate Globalization needs an international confederation of loyal, corrupt, preferably authoritarian governments in poorer countries to push through unpopular reforms and quell the mutinies...not the free movement of people, not a respect for human rights, not international treaties on racial discrimination or chemical and nuclear weapons, or greenhouse gas emissions, climate change, or god forbid, justice.." Arundhati Roy

My personal observation. But if you have proof that instead the sperm whale is leading the world please let me know.
Please post that scientific data where dolphin can solve math problems.