Hi everyone,

Swim is looking for recipes to brew ayahuasca that causes less nausea. Regardless of wether the purge is an essential part of the experience, swim is looking for all ways to reduce nausea to a minimum.

The relation of the beta carbolines to the DMT seems to be central, as too much of either will cause nausea (particularly the harmalas, right?). There is this study that analyzed this relation, and they found the average portion contains about 160 mg of beta carbolines and 30mg of DMT. Source: http://www.erowid.org/ch...ca/ayahuasca_info8.shtml

So, swims question is simple: Is the amount of DMT that can be absorbed directly related to the amount of beta carbolines? To some degree it obviously is, but is there a threshold? In other words, for example, are 80mg of beta carbolines enough to allow for the absorption of 60mg DMT? It's definitely not my intention to add 60mg of DMT, I'm just using this number to explain the question.

Is it that the RIMAs, once in the system, allow for unlimited absorption of DMT (like, they just "open the gates", or do you need correspondingly more RIMAs as you add more DMT?

It would be very interesting to find that ratio, something like X mg of RIMAs allow the absorption Y mg of DMT.

Thank you very much for any input and information!

If you are that focused on avoiding nausea, perhaps you should completely avoid things that are known to cause it.........

ie. aya.........

IMO

i agree.
if you are purging too early, try the 'ayahuasca' diet.
but really the purge is a part of the ayahuasca experience.

that being said, try whatever ratios you want.

While I agree with The Observer that if you wish to avoid nausea you should avoid things that cause them, I think it does not add much to the discussion because it moves the focus away from main question from OP.

But this question cannot be answered very easily. Each body is different and it's highly dependent on a lot of factors how effective the DMT is absorbed. Some people need a small amount of harmalas in order to allow the DMT to be effectively absorbed while others require large amounts. On top of this also comes that every human being also has a different effectiveness, efficiency and pace in which their digestive tract absorbs nutrients and drugs.

You could experiment with this. You could take an x mg amount of harmalas and then take a y mg of DMT and see what kind of effects it produces. The next day you repeat this experiment with the same amount of harmalas and 10 mg DMT of DMT than the day before. You could do this until you reach a certain upper level after which you up the dose of harmalas with 25 mg (or perhaps only 10 mg) and then start at y mg of DMT again, increase dose until you reach your limit. Yes, that would require considerable amounts of time and experimenting but it is pretty much the only way to find out. This is how the Shulgins tested their new research chemicals, except they started in the nanogram dose for safety reason.

However, there are ways to reduce nausea through other means. I hear good things about essential lemon oil (food grade, not the kind used in aromatherapy) and that 10 drops is enough to prevent nausea. Irregardless, you will get nauseated because most psychedelics cause nausea. I sometimes even get nausea on LSD, it's part of the psychedelic experience.

Cool input, thanks. It's really a lot of curiosity that's driving me to figure out that relationship and to understand how they affect my body in different amounts. The intensity of the aya purge is often just influencing the experience a lot, and particularly making it difficult to sing and make music. The nausea of LSD and mushrooms hasn't so much affected the direction of the experience to that extent, personally.

Senior ayahuasqueros have said that the key for them in reducing nausea lies in discovering the right amount to drink. So generally that means you learn to work with less. And yes, the diet is surely a very important factor. But isn't it that any larger (or too large) amount of harmalas causes nausea by itself (even on perfect diet?)

What also got me thinking about all this was Changa. Because Changa allows to visit the jungle spirit without any nausea whatsoever. These experiences made me learn how pure, clearheaded and non-physically discomforting the ayahuasca world can be in its essence. It's really the intoxication and confusion that comes with the purge that I want to reduce. I think that's a legit quest.

Anyhow, swim will definitely start experimenting with extracted harmalas and freebase spice in various combinations, starting really slow... Maybe there's something to be discovered here!

There is no need to use SWIM on these forums. There is no proof it would help in court and it makes people look silly.

Please remember to dissolve your freebase DMT in orange juice 5 to 10 minutes before consumption. Freebase DMT has a really nasty burn and can leave your tongue, throat and stomach hurt pretty bad for up to 20 minutes. I tried it out, because after I was told that it burns, I wanted to really wanted to know how much it would burn. I spilled some DMT on the table while handling it and I made it into tiny pile on the edge of the table, placed my nose over it and inhaled. On a scale of 1 to 10 on how much it burned? I'd say a good 7 to a 7.5 that slowly climbed down my throat as a drip for a good 20 minutes.

harmalas will cause nausea if you take enough. just lay down in the dark when this happens.. its at that dosage that the interesting things start happening, ime