fairbanks..this is going to sound weird, but what is your avatar? It looks like Daniel Vitalis. Sorry I just had to ask

I've never been vegan or fruitarian and have always been a big promoter of not only meat but also fats. Those two diets are possibly the most dangerous next to the standard american diet. People get seriously defficient in vitamins and protein. Also if you're vegan or fruitarian you're still eating domesticated versions of the fruits/veg even if they're organic. Meat is VERY important in our diet and I've read a bunch of stuff about it in our evolution.

Also, many misinterpret Tony Wright as being a pro-vegan/fruitarian guy b/c he focuses on natural fruit relation to neurogenesis. You can take what you want out of it, but he actually has research to back it up. He also says in the book that we aren't meant to be eating meat as often as we are which many misinterpret as anti-meat. When we were hunter-gatherer meat was a treat, for the most part Tony and Dennis et all are talking about going back to indigenous diets. Left in the Dark is not a pro-vegan/fruitarian book unless you want it to be jamie.

I think you should also read about Cambridge and Durham University research on degeneration in brain/body size since agriculture.

This isn't just throwing out theory, there is extensive research.

Hahaha. Na. It's a picture of native man.

Well, you are right..Left in the dark is not really a book abotu veganism. Tony Wright is a raw vegan though(with supplementation). I know this because my gf is friends with him. Ive read the book a couple times and she has spoken with him about all of his ideas in length many many times.

People do interprete his ideas as raw vegan ideas though, and he does talks at raw fruitarian events so that is the crowd that I think he tends to get the most attention from and it was in the context of following a fruitarain diet that I first came across his ideas.

I definatly agree with his ideas on epigenetics..I have just moved away from the whole fruitarain thing and think that there is a truth somewhere between his ideas and the work of other people like Weston Price.

"I think you should also read about Cambridge and Durham University research on degeneration in brain/body size since agriculture."

Ive looked over it before but not in depth. I definatly think that industrial agriculture was the beginning of our downfall..

Good for you man, fruitarian is a scary path. Where did you get your fiber or protein from? And cholesterol for the brain? Strict diets make me nervous and they have no anthropological history until industrial poverty in the third world.

I dont like saying this because people get offended but I do think that society in general is feminizing men..and the whole womens rights movement has tried to make it as if men and women are the same..they are equal but they not the same. The role of a man in our society has been reduced to a joke and testosterone has been made out to be this evil hormone etc.

I see more and more overly feminized men all the time and I think there is something seriously wrong about the whole situation diet plays a giant role in this.

I am really really big on fats as well..especially grass red raw butter and coconut oil..and tons of high high quality bone broth and wild greens and the best meat possible...and the purest spring water I can find..which means from the source.

I couldn't agree more brother. In fact, wheat contains phytoestrogens. That's the biggest staple of food in the male standard american diet !

Feminism has been co-opted by capitalism since the beginning of the 20th century. Advertising agencies used feminism to push cigarettes and jobs to women back in the 30s and 40s.

And not to be a dick after all this thread, but Terrence McKenna was a self described feminist. He supported a lot of eugenic like ideas with birth control as well. A lot of his ideas on society were amazing, and others were completely fucked side ways.

Well of course no cholesterol..fiber..fruits have some..protein..uhh... Most people seem to have never heard of LDL cholesterol before...

I have heard enough of the cholesterol is bad crap..and the "you dont need protein"...

I crashed HARD on that diet after a few years and so did my gf> I was fruitarain on and off..at times jsut raw vegan eating lots of nuts and seeds probly trying to get minerals..lots of greens..finally added in cooked food again and still was just crashing so bad. Wild fish, raw grass fed cheese, eggs, butter, tons of bone broth and freerange organic meats have gotten me to better place than I have been in years though.

Im really into wild foods though..farmed organic etc is great but wild foods are just a whole other level.

Yea bruthren we're on the same wave. We just gotta get to that point where we can handle a wild brocolli and dandelion salad!

mmm dandelion

I pick lots of wild dandelion. I love it so much I let my food garden just go on it's own this year and stopped weeding it as I am getting to perma and poly culture and the thing just filled up with dandelion amognst all the food crops. I had so much I was chopping the stuff up and cooking it with eggs in the morning.

That's whatsup, revolving!

I just gotta figure out how to kick this damned internet/computer habit. Return to the real mycelium network not this fake pos!

I like this idea..

http://www.youtube.com/w...index=6&feature=plcp

Hi,
(sorry for interrupting your interesting conversation by going back to McKenna)

Exactly. There is no positive evidence for TM´s ´stoned ape theory´. Actually it is not a theory in the strict scientific sense, for it does not present a falsifiable set of statements. You simply cannot disprove the ´stoned ape theory´ because there is no evidence for or against it.

Same with me. There is nothing wrong with T.McKenna not being the greatest "scientist". IMO it is also because being a "scientist" these days doesn´t mix well with being a poet, an engaged commentator, and a psychedelic prophet who impacted the whole generation...

Hindsight is 20/20.

We tend to forget that Food of the Gods was published two decades ago, that most of Terence's theories date back to before the internet and the very early days of it's evolution.

It's easy to sit back and throw out all Terence's theories now that we basically have access to infinite information at our fingertips, but I personally feel he deserves some credit for coming up with these ideas and starting these discussions well before the age of google.

Terence is no saint, he's not some kind of all knowing guru; but he was absolutely brilliant and was way ahead of time imo. Just saying remember the context here and give him some due credit.

That was a really interesting speech. Really enjoying this conversation. I need some deeper exploration soon.

double....

double

I understand Terrence is a fragile subject in the psychedelic community. I personally feel that he doesn't deserve full credit for these "ideas", in fact 'time wave zero' and 'stoned ape theory' came directly from Pierre Teilhard de Chardin with 'omega point' and the piltdown hoax. He also took a lot of his futurist and technocratic talking points from Marshall McLuhan. Finally, most of his humanist general pov's came from Julian Huxley. I believe the pop-psychedelic community gives him TOO much credit, I give him credit as a great speaker and writer, content aside. & I'm not discrediting him as a person either, I just think it's important for people in this community to not get swept up into the cult.

When reading you surrender your consciousness to the author and if you're diving into the deep end of non-fiction then you better bring a life preserver. It's good to fact check and discuss this stuff and show it for what it is. These kind of critiques have been going on long before the internet my friend, so don't think this is some new phenomena.

Also, jamie made a great point before about feminizing the population. Here's a great quote from Terrence in regards to this.

“The Mushroom said. [...] But since you brought it up. [...] I would be very interested in seeing a set of social policies, tax incentives, medical policies, insurance policies, put in place to limit male birth. [...]
This is the way to feminize the human race. [...] I’m a feminist. [...] AS A HUMANIST I advocate a reduction in male birth.”

~ Terence McKenna (starts @ 1:11 - "Speaking the Unspeakable" Maui, 1994)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IO7pHD3X9M That's the same speech I believe the OP was talking about. It's important for those listening to be aware of certain issues being pushed and to choose consciously if they want that in their mind.

Peter Bebergal said it best:

The three-headed beast
Imagine you are standing before the gate of Hades, which is guarded by the three-headed dog Cerberus. But instead of ripping you to shreds, he offers you some choice acid and a detailed map of the underworld. The world of psychedelic drug use is not unlike this friendly, electric-Kool-Aid-doling version of the ultimate hellhound. The first head is that of the drug-adoring hippies who grow their own mushrooms and continue to nurture conspiracy theories about the drugs while they search for a mystical experience from them. The second belongs to the scientists: people like Halpern; Roland Griffiths, who led a study in psilocybin and mysticism at Johns Hopkins; and Rick Strassman, whose 1990 then-radical research into DMT — the powerful drug found in the psychedelic drink ayahuasca favored by South American shamans — opened the door for legitimate psychedelic research, research done under very controlled and rigorous conditions. And the third head is a weird conglomeration of the other two, typical of such folks as Daniel Pinchbeck, who lauds the spiritual benefits of DMT and uses a kind of pseudo-science to, er, chart the date of the apocalypse, all the while having serious and sober proclamations to issue about the environment and technology. But many times — particularly when tripping on some fine blotter acid — these heads merge into a single face.

At the World Psychedelic Forum in Basel, Switzerland, this past March, those in attendance included Pinchbeck, the psychedelic artist Alex Grey, and a number of ethnobotanists, shamans, psychics, psychiatrists, and chemists — including Hofmann — to name a few. That all these individuals could unite under the umbrella of their interest in psychedelic drugs points to an underlying shared concern: is there a future for psychedelics outside of Phish concerts? And can this be achieved when, alongside those doing serious research, there are those who believe themselves to be reincarnations of Quetzalcoatl?

Read more: http://thephoenix.com/bo...cid-again/#ixzz29fTYultC