Hi all,

I experienced Dmt something like 10 times in last 3 weeks with a "machine" at doses of 45mg or so.

Each time is now the same :

I smoke the stuff and keep the smoke at least 20 sec.
Then I an violently hurted, close my eyes an see some nice colors and after a while I loose conscience.
After a time I cannot mesure, I'm back with very huges visuals for 5 minuts or so.

Between the firsts visual and the moment I come back, I don't remember nothing. I just remember I focused on my breathing some seconds (it's very confused) but i didn't remember nothing of what I guess was a breakthrough (no Cev, no entities,....)....

Do you think I have to up the dose or should I have to try again to familiarise for the sensation ?
In a normal way should I remember what appen during what I can call "the blackout"

Thanks and sorrh for my poor english...

blackout typically happens with too high of a dose, and with proper vaporization 45mg can be just that.

try about half your regular dose and see where that takes you.

Thanks for the anskwer, I'll try less.

The point is that this "blackout" duration seem to not exeed one minute. It's why I figured I was just pre-breakthrough.

The problem with breathing is also strange. It's like I feel I stop breathing but volontarily, like when I keep smoke (once angain, it's very confuse in my head)

So, in a real breakthrough, should I completly loose conscience of who and where I am, and should I remember all the experience ?

Actualy, I'm 40 year old and well experienced in psyche. Perhaps am I breakthrouging but I expect something more "strong" than it is really. They were by the way a very strong experiences, but I feel like something is missing......

I would also give your head time to analyze what it's going through, 10 times in 3 weeks for a person new to DMT is fairly extreme from what I've heard on the forum and from my own experiences so far, take a break for a few weeks and come back with a fresh head, I believe theirs some tolerance level with DMT substances too.

Perhaps are you right on this point

As nothing else happen than very huge visuals after comming back, I considered I'm far of the goal and think there is nothing special to analyse, what is probably wrong....

As I was waiting to get dmt for years and years, and absolutly want a huge result, I didn't comply with "dmt spirit" and didn't waited the right condition to do it...

Thanks for the advice.

I'm with Parshvik ok this one. Blackouts are indicative of overdoses - not breakthroughs. While DMT experiences may be difficult to remember, those experiences that are hard to remember are ontologically different from blackouts. In a difficult-to-remember breakthrough, your consciousness actually underwent the formality of experience from which it may bring back scattered memories. In the case of a blackout, there is no experience, and no memories to ever scrounge up.

As for your breathing, it's normal to have the sensation as if one has stopped breathing, but I think it was either Strassman or Gracie and Zarkov that found that even though people who had claimed that they were unable to breathe at a certain point in the experience, the clinical monitoring of the breathing showed that there was nothing out of the ordinary in the breathing patterns, so it's just an illusion of not being able to breathe. If it happens again, just reassure yourself that you'll be fine, and let what happens happen and see where that takes you.

In a real breakthrough, you may or may not retain knowledge of who and where you are. It's different for everyone, and for me it can be different from time to time. Sometimes I retain complete awareness of who I am, where I am, what I just did and what's going on. Other times I get so wrapped up in the experience, that I sort of forget what's happening and "who I am", but I feel there is a distinction to be made. In the case of DMT, when I lose awareness of who I am and all that, I have no idea that I've forgotten who I am in the first place. I'm just so incredibly distracted that it slips my mind that I don't know what's going on. In the case of salvia for example, the ego loss is much more complete where when I realize that I don't know who I am, I cannot access that information. I can't figure out who I am, what I took, where I am, why I feel like this, etc...With DMT when I have ego loss, as soon as I realize what's happened, it all comes flooding back to me, as if it were just brushed aside, but waiting to come back to me as soon as I realize what's going on.

Even if you don't have a full ego loss, you may not remember all of the experience, but then again, I think people's memories are much weaker than what they often give themselves credit for. For example, if you were to go see an outlandish sci-fi movie, and turned the sound off (so you couldn't remember plot points/verbal cues) my guess is that you'd have a somewhat difficult time reconstructing that movie in your memory. Sure you may be able to brings some fragments and pieces back with you, but ultimately when you try and recreate a scene by memory, most of it is based off of expectation as opposed to what you actually perceived. DMT seems to underscore the weakness of memory with the salient experiences it provides and unlike a movie, you cannot go back and re-watch, so it becomes important to remember. I suppose much in the same way that "remembering" an awesome scene from a movie won't bring you the joy and satisfaction as actually watching the scene, the same holds true for DMT. People want to be able to keep that experience right on the cusp of their memory banks so they can summon it back up in a kind of way, but a weak expectation-based memory is no substitute for the real experience, not to mention that in hyperspace, particularly for those who haven't traveled so much, expectations for what goes on there is about as low as it can get for experiences you'll have in a lifetime, which makes memory even weaker in this area.

Lastly in regards to 10x in 3 weeks, it's perfectly normal for people to go through this "honey moon" phase of consuming a lot of DMT upon first extracting it. When I first started smoking DMT, I was doing it several times a day, on most days for months. In that entire period, I think I might have had one negative experience. As I said before, black outs are indicative of overdoses, not a lack of respect. Overdoses also seem to tend to land people in hot water moreso than high frequency of travel.

Thanks for the anskwer....

I'll definitly try around 30 mg instead of the 45 mg I used to smoke on the last tries. As far as I know, 45 mg is not a massive dosr, but perhaps am I sensitive.

Actually, the blackout occure after what I think is the Chysantemium (a very colorfull and complex patern) I saw closed eyes during the onset. That was why I was thinking I have to take more spice to reach next level.

Concerning the breathe and other strange feeling, to be honnest I haven't been frightening as I know I will not die....

I will also try next time without music. Perhaps music "disturb" me. I think I remember (very confusely by the way) that I was hearing the music without any deformation during these blackouts.

Anyway, as the visual when comming down where very powerfull, I didn't know if I had breakthrough or not. Now I'm sure I hadn't, but I'm confident that with a little more preparation and better settings I will reach it soon....

try keeping your eyes open. it's hard to tell if you're really blacking out or just drifting away in a mess of sensory overload. with your eyes open its a little easier to stay grounded and you can watch the transformation from sober to tripping to breakthrough happen much easier. at first breakthroughs can be a little confusing but i feel that with return visits you start to become more aware of what's actually going on. when i first started smoking DMT it was just a mess of flying colors and I could never remember the details when i came back. after a while I started noticing these colors were turning into entities and guiding me places and it's damn hard to forget something like that!

If someone is having trouble breaking through, keeping the eyes open isn't a very reliable way to break through specifically because of the grounding feature.

I think the advice in here is spot on and 30mg sounds like a great dose for next time. If you are stilll having trouble breaking through at that point perhaps even lower or double check your smoking method to see if you may be burning or losing spice through screens.

The honeymoon phase is something I went through as well and after a few changa experiences almost back-to-back I would experience a short blackout instead breakthrough.

As far as open or closed eyes, my eyes close automatically when I reach my breakthrough dose. It is the final hit that I feel myself begin to fall backwards as my eyes close (must be quick to put the device down after inhaling). Especially if I catch a carrier wave (ascending humming or nature's version of it) as those things are like a lullaby to me and I'm gone long before they peak. Like guided tuning directly into hyperspace channel. If you hear one of these definitely listen in, it is a delightful ride and you can ride it to breakthrough if you are lucky.

Ok.

So I'll try 30 mg next time without music, and try to have one eye open and the other close to respect all your advices

Actually, I tried one time to stay eyes open but it wasn't possible...

I think my smoking methode is relatively efficient with the machine, but I'll pay more attention to don't touch the metal with le flame.

I'll keep you aware of the results as far as I try again.

Last question to put all chances on my side, I use to lie down on my back just after the last hit. I imagine the position have no influence, but if there is any, please let me know.

Thanks again for all these reply.

Lying down should work just fine. As long as you are nice and comfortable you should be good to go. I've heard some members mention certain religious/yoga/etc poses, but I have no experience with them.

Happy journeys!

I can't speak for everyone, but my posture most definitely affects what I see in the experience. There is something extremely peculiar about the way I interact with hyperspace. The thing is this with my eyes open, I'll have holograms flood the room. The room acts as a sort of container for these things. Sometimes they may extend slightly beyond the room, but for the most part, they are as if in a container. Now, even with eyes shut, hyperspace still seems to conform to the container of the room I'm in. So for example, if I'm in a small room and close to a the wall I'm facing, all of hyperspace will be right up in my grill. If I pivot my head (without opening my eyes), hyperspace then will then take on a deeper space between myself and the ceiling (even though my eyes are closed and can't actually see where the ceiling is, yet hyperspace knows). Likewise, if I do it in a much larger room, the visions expand accordingly. The distance between yourself and the visuals can have a big impact on how they interact with you, and therefore can make a big difference. Laying on my back would be a very different experience for me than being seated, reclining on the same bed.

This is very interesting I will have to pay more attention to it. I have had one experience in particular where my CEVs still displayed the room I was in, though its own hyperspace version of the room, and I could navigate the room with my eyes closed. It got to be more complicated than that, but I believe the rest is irrelevant here.

Most of my experiences have been outdoors seated or lying down, but this will be interesting to look into. Panoramixx, I'd recommend listening to Global as he seems more experienced with the effects of positioning.

Reminds me of this infographic:
Signal Theory. Toward a Unfied Theory of Psychedelic Action or: “Hallucinogens and Recurrent Excitation in Cortical Circuitry”
http://www.tripzine.com/listing.php?smlid=697

Looks to be 6 years old now, but more specifically I'm referring to the full section containing this quote (RECURRENT EXCITATION AND PARANORMAL PERCEPTION):

While the research done so far as I've read refers to more basic visual phenomena than a DMT experience might entail, I still think these regions of the brain and the resulting excitation/response may be playing a part here.

Reading I have done on theories for the perception of coherent motion and local motion has also brought such things to mind as the JimJam/Chrysanthemum and it's fine movements, stretches, and expansions. Granted, I don't have a great understanding of these topics (especially some of the math involved) so these are only observations.

When I do it outside, everything blows up and is gigantic and grand. It goes from having a small sailing vessel in your room to a full-sized navy hauling vessel outside. At least for me anyway. Doing outdoors is a great experience, I just find it to be somewhat unfocused.

Hi all,

Just a return on my case...;

I've now take something like 25+ machines dosed between 30 and 75 mg (most of them around 45mg).

On all my experiences, I don't remember nothing visual of all my breakthrough, just some sensations and/or impressions. No elves, no "hyperespace", no entities or somthing else. Just some complex paterns just before the breakthrough, and after, no visual memory of what happen.....

It is not blackout, as I remember some sensations, but nothing like it's usualy described...

Some of my friends try my stuff between 30 and 45 mg, and all of them had a breakthrough with hudge visuals, entities, etc...;

So, the problem is myself, not the stuff or the smoking method....

It was anyway very nice and strong experiences, but it's little bit desapointing....

Why this is happening to me ???

Make sure you're holding in your hits as long as possible. Also, perhaps it's time to invest in a GVG. Maybe the Machine just isn't working for you.

I'm kind of sure it is not linked to the vaporization method.

It is the same with 30, 45 or 60mg, no remember of any visual. I also experienced several method of vaporisation with same result.

When my friends try, with the same stuff, the same machine, and the same men lighting, it work "as usually described" for them....

We often use to say that everybody react differently on psychedelic. I think I react differently than most of other peoples on DMT.... And I'm not particulary happy of it.....

I'm sure I breakthroughed, and each experience is very profound. For example, I had lots of time the real sensation to go back on my body after the breakthrough, and need several minuts to remember what or who I am and rediscover my body, but with no memory of any visuals. This is actually the only differences of what is usually described. No memory of any visual.....

You seem pretty adamant that despite the fact that you have no memory of visuals that you're not blacking out. Now it seems to me that if you just have no visuals to begin with and retain awareness the whole time, then that's one thing. If you can recall no visuals and you suddenly feel yourself coming back into your body, that sounds an awful lot like a blackout. The only advice I can offer is the same advice offered at the beginning of this thread, and that's to lower the dose (perhaps below 30mg even). Find the dose where you still do have visuals, and crank it up from there.

What kind of lighting are you doing this in? Is it dark, light, dim? Whatever it is change it up. Do it directly in front of a bright lamp if you need to.

you might just be unlucky, my friend never remembers what happens, he know its something huge but he never has any recall of the experience.