"Our entire much-praised technological progress, and civilization generally, could be compared to an ax in the hand of a pathological criminal." - Albert Einstein
Posts: 299 Joined: 13-Jul-2012 Last visit: 12-May-2014
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Many people have had amazing experiences with ayahuasca and gained a lot from it. I wouldn't dismiss it b/c shulgin says so. In fact many people have had bad experiences with the synthetic or extracted alkaloids that he has "known and loved."
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 194 Joined: 31-Aug-2012 Last visit: 26-Feb-2015
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fairbanks wrote:In fact many people have had bad experiences with the synthetic or extracted alkaloids that he has "known and loved."
Love that! Many people have died from synthetics he' s "known and loved" unfortunately. Ayahuasca has such a long history thus track record. From what I gather in your post, you haven't even tried any psychedelics yet correct? I would probably start with something a little less intense. Try and get your hands on some mushrooms. Start out with a gram and maybe work your way up. IMO the tryptamine family of psychedlics have the most to offer as far as spirituality and insight into oneself. I am completely convinced that there is a wealth of information built into us, with miles of intuitive knowledge tucked away in the genetic material of every one of our cells. Something akin to a library containing uncountable reference volumes, but without any obvious route of entry. And, without some means of access, there is no way to even begin to guess at the extent and quality of what is there. The psychedelic drugs allow exploration of this interior world, and insights into its nature. - Shulgin
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 373 Joined: 17-Jun-2012 Last visit: 21-Jun-2021
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Mars Man 233 wrote:After watching the video posted here about the shulgin's ayahuasca experience and them not gaining anything from their bad experience I don't see what's to gain from it. These people are very experienced. They wrote 2 books. I'll do some more reading before choosing which psychedelic to try first. Personally I view every moment as a learning experience so I would be hard pressed to not find something to gain in an experience, let alone an ayahuasca/DMT experience. I am currently unable to watch the video, but what did their "bad trip" consist of that they were unable to make a realization as to the root of it? I classify a "bad trip" as some thought/idea/thing that mentally upsets me and usually a general loopy thought pattern that takes it deeper. During the "bad" part of a trip where I am stuck on this 'thing' it may be rough, but when I'm more level headed (during the trip or not) I can look at this same thought/idea/thing and see it completely differently. I can see how I was upset by this thought/idea/thing, why I was upset by it, and I grow from that. What did they experience in their bad trip that they believed they gained nothing from it? IMO at the very least they gained the knowledge of whatever that experience entailed and that they can make it through a bad experience. I suppose it's already been said though. To each his own. The inner soul is full of joy. Reveal my secrets and sew me whole. With each day, "I" heeds your call.
You may not care the slightest and may not be the brightest, but from here "I" sees you're mighty for you created it all.
And the jumbling sea rose above the wall.
Through this chaos comes the order you enthrall.
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Dreamoar
Posts: 4711 Joined: 10-Sep-2009 Last visit: 28-Feb-2025 Location: Rocky mountain high
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VIII wrote:I agree that if you want to avoid any potential for a rough few minutes/hours then psychedelics are probably not for you. Although personally I don't enjoy MDMA.
edit: I'm speaking of all psychedelics I'm experienced having bad trips with: DMT, Mushrooms.
I suppose it depends on what you think a "bad time" consists of. In my experience, what you experience on psychedelics depends on you. You will experience yourself from a new perspective and at first some of these perspectives can appear negative and bring you into some seemingly depressed thoughts. After looking through this perspective a little longer you may notice that this perspective is not negative at all, but something you needed to see. That depressed loop of thoughts has been transformed and through the window of psychedelics emerges a new understanding of that depression, from which joy is free to sprout.
The question becomes are you willing to temporarily experience these aspects of yourself? Are you willing to step outside of your normal self to see what you are truly capable of? Are you willing to fully surrender yourself and trust that you will be OK in the end?
Never fight her flow.
The words feel heavy, but they're soft as snow.
From this short despair, I found the life I wear.
You have to do a little digging to get to the goods and digging can be hard work at times and a jolly ol' time at others. To be honest before I tried psychedelics I thought I would have many more bad trips than I've had. Perhaps I'm lucky.
In the end for me it has always ended in the following ways:
1) Suddenly see it in positive light.
2) Realize I'm just tripping, these thoughts are ridiculous.
3) Later (post-trip) understand the meaning of the negative thoughts I had.
4) Later (post-trip) realize I was just tripping, those thoughts were ridiculous.
Possible #5: Denial???
Best of luck on your journeys if you choose to follow them and welcome to the Nexus. This is an excellent post! Very well said VIII.  @Mars Man 233My stick to MDMA comment was somewhat in jest, because with MDMA you are (almost) guaranteed a positive experience. Though I've seen a few people have a bad time on MDMA as well. Psychedelics can give you amazing, beautiful, healing experiences, catalyze major creative and perceptual breakthroughs, and assist you in learning, growing, and transforming yourself in ways you never thought possible. They are a godsend and a powerful ally to those who dedicate themselves to learning how to utilize them properly. Like with everything else however, you have to take the good with the bad. Sometimes difficult experiences are exactly what we need to grow, psychedelics tend to shed light on your deepest feelings and bring forth unconscious and repressed emotions a lot of the time. They are not something you take to just get high and have a good time (that's what MDMA is for  ). Working with these things is just that, work! These are the most powerful tools for psychological growth and healing available and like all forms of power they can be misused and cause some serious damage. I'd suggest re-reading VIII's post and asking yourself if you are ready to undertake such a level of work and commitment, knowing that the benefits will indeed outweigh the trials and tribulations. Also, I'd suggest before making any decisions, listen to the whole Ask the Shulgin's talk rather than just the little snippet I linked above so as to see how all this applies not only to ayahusca but all psychedelics in general. Whole talk here: http://www.matrixmasters.net/salon/?p=73Direct download: http://www.matrixmasters...ns-PalenqueNorte2006.mp3If you do choose to undertake this journey, do so with conviction and know that it is ultimately a path of growth and healing. I wish you infinite blessings and happiness on your adventures. -Namaste
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סנדלפון
Posts: 1322 Joined: 16-Apr-2012 Last visit: 05-Nov-2012 Location: מלכות
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VIII Wrote: Quote:In the end for me it has always ended in the following ways:
1) Suddenly see it in positive light.
2) Realize I'm just tripping, these thoughts are ridiculous.
3) Later (post-trip) understand the meaning of the negative thoughts I had.
4) Later (post-trip) realize I was just tripping, those thoughts were ridiculous.
Possible #5: Denial??? I'm not really sure that telling yourself that "i'm just tripping" and "these thoughts are rediculous" works for everyone. I know that such things would not be very effective for myself personally speaking. I have a hard time seeing denial in any form as a positive thing I suppose And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not percieve the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "brother let me remove the speck from your eye", when you yourself do not see the plank that is in your own eye?-Yeshua ben Yoseph
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 373 Joined: 17-Jun-2012 Last visit: 21-Jun-2021
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Eliyahu wrote:VIII Wrote: Quote:In the end for me it has always ended in the following ways:
1) Suddenly see it in positive light.
2) Realize I'm just tripping, these thoughts are ridiculous.
3) Later (post-trip) understand the meaning of the negative thoughts I had.
4) Later (post-trip) realize I was just tripping, those thoughts were ridiculous.
Possible #5: Denial??? I'm not really sure that telling yourself that "i'm just tripping" and "these thoughts are rediculous" works for everyone. I know that such things would not be very effective for myself personally speaking. I have a hard time seeing denial in any form as a positive thing I suppose Ah I listed denial as a possibility I would be unaware of, such as I believe you are getting at? I've had a few times where I was just obsessing over irrelevant details and making them out to be all-important which is when I find those sayings helpful. I believe that in many cases saying "I'm just tripping, these thoughts are ridiculous" could hinder progress towards what the psychedelics were helping uncover. It is in these cases that I believe further integration can help me later understand the meaning of the negative thoughts I had. You make a valid point though, imo, that casting thoughts off as being simply ridiculous shouldn't be done with haste. I apologize if I misunderstood you. The inner soul is full of joy. Reveal my secrets and sew me whole. With each day, "I" heeds your call.
You may not care the slightest and may not be the brightest, but from here "I" sees you're mighty for you created it all.
And the jumbling sea rose above the wall.
Through this chaos comes the order you enthrall.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 194 Joined: 31-Aug-2012 Last visit: 26-Feb-2015
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Eliyahu wrote:VIII Wrote: Quote:In the end for me it has always ended in the following ways:
1) Suddenly see it in positive light.
2) Realize I'm just tripping, these thoughts are ridiculous.
3) Later (post-trip) understand the meaning of the negative thoughts I had.
4) Later (post-trip) realize I was just tripping, those thoughts were ridiculous.
Possible #5: Denial??? I'm not really sure that telling yourself that "i'm just tripping" and "these thoughts are rediculous" works for everyone. I know that such things would not be very effective for myself personally speaking. I have a hard time seeing denial in any form as a positive thing I suppose I was thinking the same thing when I read that. I am completely convinced that there is a wealth of information built into us, with miles of intuitive knowledge tucked away in the genetic material of every one of our cells. Something akin to a library containing uncountable reference volumes, but without any obvious route of entry. And, without some means of access, there is no way to even begin to guess at the extent and quality of what is there. The psychedelic drugs allow exploration of this interior world, and insights into its nature. - Shulgin
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1856 Joined: 07-Sep-2012 Last visit: 12-Jan-2022
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Eliyahu wrote:
I'm not really sure that telling yourself that "i'm just tripping" and "these thoughts are rediculous" works for everyone. I know that such things would not be very effective for myself personally speaking.
I have a hard time seeing denial in any form as a positive thing I suppose
it works for me on occasion,in fact i have ridiculous thoughts when i"m not tripping! I remember when i was young after one of my first lsd trips i came home after larking about with my friends all night having a very nice time honeymoon tripping. I sat on my bed still tripping hard and couldnt work out how to get my laces undone and started freaking out. I thought to myself is this a bad trip coming on? No its a ridiculous situation where i am incapable of working out how to get my shoes off that started to get serious in my head, in the end i went to bed with my shoes on. However i then put my stereo on with headphones on my head to recieve full blast psychedelic rock, brain,whoosh, napalm without realising the phones weren"t plugged into the hifi.My dad came in screaming (and he is a grumpy fucker at the best of times) i had to laugh. That was pretty ridiculous too. Ridiculous can be good, it can be your friend and ally in this world of ours. I guess you have to learn when you need to and laugh when all else fails.
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סנדלפון
Posts: 1322 Joined: 16-Apr-2012 Last visit: 05-Nov-2012 Location: מלכות
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VIII wrote:Eliyahu wrote:VIII Wrote: Quote:In the end for me it has always ended in the following ways:
1) Suddenly see it in positive light.
2) Realize I'm just tripping, these thoughts are ridiculous.
3) Later (post-trip) understand the meaning of the negative thoughts I had.
4) Later (post-trip) realize I was just tripping, those thoughts were ridiculous.
Possible #5: Denial??? I'm not really sure that telling yourself that "i'm just tripping" and "these thoughts are rediculous" works for everyone. I know that such things would not be very effective for myself personally speaking. I have a hard time seeing denial in any form as a positive thing I suppose Ah I listed denial as a possibility I would be unaware of, such as I believe you are getting at? I've had a few times where I was just obsessing over irrelevant details and making them out to be all-important which is when I find those sayings helpful. I believe that in many cases saying "I'm just tripping, these thoughts are ridiculous" could hinder progress towards what the psychedelics were helping uncover. It is in these cases that I believe further integration can help me later understand the meaning of the negative thoughts I had. You make a valid point though, imo, that casting thoughts off as being simply ridiculous shouldn't be done with haste. I apologize if I misunderstood you. ok...I can see where your coming from. I could definitely see how psychedelic experiences could amplify a "what the heck was I thinking?" type scenario when it comes to over analyzing and paranoia type thoughts. I guess I was thinking you meant to deny the "magic" so to speak of the experience. And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not percieve the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "brother let me remove the speck from your eye", when you yourself do not see the plank that is in your own eye?-Yeshua ben Yoseph
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 373 Joined: 17-Jun-2012 Last visit: 21-Jun-2021
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Looking back I can see I certainly oversimplified my position on this topic. Eliyahu that's definitely more what I was referring too, over analyzing and such. The magic of it is very much embraced, no matter how long it takes to be revealed on its many levels. The inner soul is full of joy. Reveal my secrets and sew me whole. With each day, "I" heeds your call.
You may not care the slightest and may not be the brightest, but from here "I" sees you're mighty for you created it all.
And the jumbling sea rose above the wall.
Through this chaos comes the order you enthrall.
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