Hi everyone!
I wanted to share a trip report, some related artwork, and hear you guys' perspectives on some things. Apologies if this is not a good section for these things. I'm aware there are art and Salvia sections but as a new member this seemed the best place that I can post in.

This may also be quite lengthy. I will do my best to categorize it so that you can pick and choose what you might like to read. Hope the length is not a problem. Thanks very much for your time and attention.

---Trip Report
I've been getting back into Salvia very slowly. I wasn't having anything more than a dissociation and a feeling of the body disappearing. Then I decided after numerous little vaporizing of 5x experiences like this that I would try rolling it in some papers with a little bit of Tages erecta(marigold). At first I did a very small amount sprinkled through out. I felt it quite well and decided it could work. Later after a few more "light" vaporizing experiences I decided since it was dark outside to roll a cigarette with a bit more in it. This led to a feeling of heaviness in the limbs where I nearly fell over/stumbled around a bit. I felt a kind of voice drop inside of me. Like a slightly hint of time trying to tug away from me. Since I've had experiences before I though, ah this can go deeper, this is working.

Crazy me, the next night I decided: Hey I can put much more in this time, and I don't want to stumble back inside through the dark, so I'll smoke it in my safe apartment space alone in the relative darkness. So I did. I cleared out a space in my closet, sat with the door open facing my bed with a fan in front to disperse any light smoke and paper bowl with some water to put it out in.

I braced myself best one could, let go best I could, lit it and took a drag. I held it in this time, for as long as I could or felt necessary. Probably about 20 seconds. I blow out no smoke, and "feel it coming on already". Like the atmosphere was being pumped out a little bit or something.

I took 2 more drags, holding about the same, no smoke either time. The effects got incredibly strong very fast. I started going a little crazy inside, and then I felt like I came into a totally different space. The strangest thing was that it wasn't enough to change my external reality, except that it had an almost (cartoonish?) effect. It was like the fabric of my perception of reality had been pulled back and I was existing in a shadow realm, so to speak. Visually it was all about the same, but I felt almost no connection to my previous idea of a self. I remember thinking or saying "Who's closet is this?!"

Somewhere in the background very very faintly was my past self, still so fading and distantly rational saying "this is enough I need to put it out and stand up and go lay down. The bed is just over there..."

I tried to do this with almost no relation to anything as it was before despite the relative lack of visual changes. I tried to get up but found myself...It's hard to describe...It was like I was trying to operate a sort of complex machinery with my hand gestures. Like a sort of "cha-ching" or shifting through gears on a very large mechanical truck. (which is some sense was "me" )

Instead of a visual changes I had a complete mind fuck. My thoughts were so strange as though they were synchronized with my body movements. I got the strong sense or irrational belief that everything I did was effecting and would effect the rest of my life. There was a very edge of the cliff type feeling of deep and profound terror. Every time I did something it was as though these "felt-thoughts" would span off into the universe in various perfectly calculated directions and curves, then possibly come back as though to let me know about how my actions are/were affecting the next and present moment in this strange space/time.

I somehow managed to abandon these irrationalities which were practically controlling my body(or so it seemed) for long enough to stop acting like this and put the Salvia cigarette out, despite it being still relatively filled. I didn't care 'cause I was done and freaking out.

So I put it out and set the water bowl with it down on the carpet to the front-left of me. I stood up as I did this and after that was done I was making my way around in the crazy sort of delirium to my bed. But my headspace was so fucked up that as I did so I found my body and everything I had as an intent shifted completely and made me turn towards the bathroom. I walked up to the mirror doing these strange synchronized thought related movements the whole while.

For what I can only imagine was the peak, I got the sense, like I had at the other doses, that this could go much much deeper if I wanted it to. The signs of this to me was this odd felt presence of other beings, or at least a kind of crazy speaking to them as though they were there. At some level it seems like it was a strange dissociative relationship to my thoughts during a panic attack as I was thrown into a delirious liquid salvia space.

This other beings thing faded, but a strange chopped sense of time which went along with the synchronized thought experience was present through most of the trip. Only when coming down did this effect give any hint of fading.

When I reached the mirror I had the strangest most frightening sort of delirious pep talk with myself to never do this ever again because it's dangerous and my life is good.

This in itself wasn't a problem but I sincerely felt as though I was writing something on my brain or making some profound and possibly dangerous permanent change to my existence. This was basically the gist of the trip. I eventually felt these effects wearing off and continued to talk rather honestly with myself in a surprisingly sound and helpful way until I eventually felt it wear off and went to sleep.

I woke up later and have been feeling ok. The experience reminded me of some frightening experiences, and I recall that I have done this before to similarly delirious effect.

-- Questions
I suppose my questions to you all are:
Have you had any effects like this? Is this a kind of "normal" effect of Salvia? Is this dangerous? How so? Could one go "permanently insane" from these types of experiences?

Artwork
Today I made some artwork, as I do almost every day. I feel it relates to the sense of terror and presence I felt to the trip as well as the shadowy unknown realm effect of it.
Salvia's Fear Noir | A Xenophobe's Nightmare Trip



Afterthoughts & Feelings
I am still a bit worried (although much less so now) about how dangerous this substance might be. I have a curiosity about consciousness exploration, but it is so very strange to experience things like this that I am almost completely put off at the idea of doing any more psychedelics in my life. And this comes from a relatively seasoned psychonaught. If I can be more certain that this is simply a result of the drug's effects on the brain and that I probably won't be led into a sort of permanent insanity, then I may (paradoxically as it seems) be wiling to blast off further, and/or get to know this substance's range of effects.

Any input, feedback, comments, etc are much appreciated. Thanks guys!

~FayingWorlds

Why thank you! I make most of my art digitally in Corel Painter. So it's mostly a simple soft brush at different sizes and colors. I think the Salvia trip at least brought in some different senses and colors to this artwork in particular.

I can appreciate that. I was originally wanting to use leaves and quid them but the place I went had only extracts. So far 5x has been more profound that I expected.

Thank you for your comment.

I think you did a pretty good job at describing your experience. Salvia space can be extremely alien, and effects often include strong, overwhelming physical warping, dimensional re-arrangement and basically a transformation of the way your awareness "communicates" with reality, including your own physical body. Salvia is not only able to take you to places, or to manifest presences or entities; it radically changes the rules of the game.



I can relate to all of these. The first time I had a significant salvia experience, I went through a first person glimpse of what I always understood to be gravity in modern physics. I remembered what they say: matter tells space how to curve, space tells matter how to move. A neurologist would suggest that salvinorin radically affects our mechanisms of proprioception, of perception and awareness of the physical self and its boundaries. But it goes much further than that.



- As I said, yes.
- It is, although the details of every experience can be unique. No psychedelic experience is equal to another, but in my experience salvia is the most unpredictable of them all.
- And regarding danger and safety... can it be dangerous? I'd say yes. But not in a strictly physical sense, unless we are dealing with serious existing conditions or heart problems. Otherwise, the only real physical dangers using salvia are your behavior and surroundings, since as you experienced yourself, it's very easy to lose control and awareness of your movements. Windows, sharp objects, fire, swimming pools and other potential hazards are to be avoided, preferably by using an experienced sitter. Other than that, I'd say that salvinorin is physically safe.

However, it is possible be left with a form of PTSD, and shaken to the core. Which would require some integration work. IME the dangers of salvia are there when:

a) You overdose. Measuring well your doses is particularly important.
b) You don't take good care of the setting.
c) You don't really know what you're getting into.

This last point relates to what mescaline-man said regarding the higher frequency of negative or terrifying experiences with smoked salvia. Many people have used salvia smoking it many times and have had mind-bending but positive and nurturing experiences, but the main difference between sublingual use and smoking is there anyways: onset speed.

Sublingual salvia (quid, tincture) starts working much slower. That gives the user the chance to slowly acclimate to the effects, besides the fact they have used the plant before or not. But smoked salvia, while very effective, can reduce that time to the minimum. Reality can become very alien in a matter of seconds, or a minute at most. That can scare the s**t out of you. Specially if you happened to be a carefree kid looking for a new high and clueless about what salvia can do.

Salvia is an amazing plant that, even more than other psychedelics IMO, requires doing things carefully and right.

And thanks for sharing your drawing, very interesting stuff. A salvia art gallery would be unique

These effects you've experienced are completely normal of salvia. So much so, that they only skim the iceberg really. Salvia is really only dangerous to the extent that when you're in the throws of a full-on breakthrough, the body can have a tendency to get up and act by itself without any memory on behalf of consciousness itself. That is to say that one is often completely unaware the body has been off doing things while you're being hung out to dry in the salvia-verse. I call 'em Salvia Zombies and it can be quite scary. There was a time where I myself smoked some in a reclining chair and when I began to find myself back in physical reality, I was in a completely different place. For this reason, it is wise to have a sitter with salvia, probably more so than any other hallucinogen (including DMT). As for going "permanently insane" that's not something that I think you have to worry about.

When you talk about smoking it in the closet, and forgetting whose closet it was, I just had to laugh because it's just so typical of salvia. If there's a drug that'll make you forget who you are or what you're doing, it's gonna be salvia. The first time I smoked it, I didn't know who I was or what I had just smoked. I thought to myself, "did I smoke weed?....no weed doesn't do this...oh yeah I think it was called "salvia"...I wonder what that does...." On other occasions, I've become the couch - identity and all. It was rather depressing as I mused to myself, "I'm just a couch. Nothing more, nothing less. I have no friends. People just sit on me." Salvia can get incredibly weird as you get deeper and deeper. It turns more into mad funhouse rollercoaster rides at the higher doses where logic and order cease to exist, so proceed with caution

Thank you all for your insightful posts and shared experiences. This is incredibly helpful. I will be sure to watch those videos soon.

It is good to know this isn't just some strange personal reaction but a kind of "normal." The language you guys have used has really helped me to make sense of some things in my own mind. The "Salvia Zombie" seems a very apt description. I was once a sitter (among others) for a mutual friend. It was more incidental as they were fairly set on doing it. :/ I ended up needing to gently keep their body from bumping too hard into the edges of tables. I wasn't so keen on touching their body as they were tripping but it does certainly illustrate that one most likely should have a sitter as suggested.

I'm thinking I will probably remain in my usual sobriety including psychedelics for as long as I'd like until perhaps I have a sitter and feel daring and prepared enough to journey into such strange dimensional-changing spaces as Salvia can apparently take one.

Haha, yeah, whilst forgetting who's closet it was I still had a bit of very faint background rationality that kind of expected this sort of amnesia and was basically going "oh shit...I can't go further than this safely." And thank god for that. I'm certainly going to heed the warnings and advice of cation here, and if proceeding at all with this substance in the future I will be certain to have a very good sitter present.

Also, I'd love to post more of my artwork here. It's not all specifically Salvia related but it is in the same sort of "underlying style" as the one I've posted here.

Thank you all again very much for your responses. I'm really loving this community. Peace and respect to you all.

~FayingWorlds

Salvia is not a psychedelic to be messed with, thats where I drew my line personally. Ive had a friend who lost his marbles totally(running away in the streets, laughing like a maniac and not responding to any outside stimuli) for 4 hrs. I was so scared that he would never come back. I was so shaken by it plus all my experiences have been dark ones with salvia. So yeah I don't and wont ever mess with it any more.
To me:
Aya = Mother
Iboga = Father
Shrooms = Brother/sister
Kambo = Doctor
Salvia= Twisted Jester (will change all rules of perception)

That seems like a fair assessment. I'm sorry to hear of your troubling experiences. It's definitely something I would consider with great care and personally require of myself that I have a sitter if I chose to have any further experiences with the substance. it is definitely quite powerful. In my (experienced) opinion anything which can make a person lose control of their body to such a degree should probably be approached with great trepidation and education.

Thanks for the comment.