Buddhists believe that it takes 28 days of gestation before the soul enters the body. Coincidentally, it is theorized that it takes the pineal gland 28 days to start producing DMT.

A woman in the spirit molecule speaks about how she believes DMT takes you to the place where souls await re-birth.

People who go through near death experiences seem to report alot of similar things with people who breakthrough on DMT.

I say find people who have gone through NDE, give them DMT, and have them compare the two.

I would love to see that.

I'm willing to assume that some nexians have had near death experiences. I can say, that from what I have heard of people describing what they see during NDE's seems similiar to what I have experienced. But not completely.

Also I dont know about the buddhist thing, but I havent read anything about a theory of when the pineal gland starts producing DMT, but the pineal gland is fully formed at day 49. So I doubt it is making any chemicals until then.

(FUNNY, i did a search to make sure my info was correct and found a post by sidefx on psychonaut.com regarding this exact thread. haha)

It is also believed by some that the soul enters the body at day 49, and that is also when you biologically become Male or Female

I actually meant 49 days. I don't know why I was thinking of 28. My bad.

I think this is all very interesting as well, and also whether or not there is a connection to dreaming. It's different obviously, but also seems related. I have some ideas about this but I'm not sure if I want to put it out there just yet.

Whenever someone mentions these ideas, there are always a couple of negative nancies who rush to jump in and say "It's not proven DMT comes from the pineal, or that it has to do with NDE or dreaming" Etc. Etc. And of course this is true. It's NOT proven. It's a theory, put forward by one of a VERY small number of people who have ever been allowed to study this stuff. It's possible that DMT is actually synthesized in the lungs, but how can that go from theory to fact if it's taboo or even illegal to study it? If more research was allowed, maybe some parts of these theories could either be proven or disproven, it's not the fault of anyone here that it's still unknown. But until then IMO there's nothing wrong with speculating based on what little we do know. And it stands to reason that a group of people as familiar with the effects of DMT as this one would be a great place to start in trying to understand just what exactly it's all about, why it's in our bodies at all and how it works.

The big bang is just a theory too, and so is evolution, and relativity, and all kinds of things that people generally accept if they understand them well enough. But you don't see these same people jumping out to remind us that there's no proof whenever one of those things gets mentioned. I'm just saying, it's annoying and I hope this conversation won't go that way.

I theorize that dreaming is kind of like low doses of DMT, except that it's different due to the fact you are asleep, I havent had full blown Lucid Dreams, but would be curious to ask anyone who has, how it compares to DMT.

Regardless, dreaming is hallucinating without a doubt. So some kind of hallucinogen is most likely at play with dream making. I would say with death as well.

While I'm no expert on the matter I have had a number of lucid dreams and they are NOTHING like DMT. I'm always baffled that people compare them. Sure after doing dmt quite a bit some influence may slip into my dream state but it's not like a dmt trip at all. Dreams are much more representative of daily reality yet less organized. Dmt is highly organized and BIZARRE. Very unlike anything I've ever known or experienced.

I also feel like Hppd rates in nondrug users would be absurd if we all produced active doses of dmt daily.

As for near death experiences I have no experience and would be extremely interested to hear from someone who does

It is not 49 days. It is the 7th week of gestastion, falsely interpreted by laymen as 49 days. There is no chance of accurately knowing such a thing about human development without actually doing something as inhumane as disrupting healthy pregnancies (and even then, you never know exactly the fertilisation point where from you can start counting days)

BTW, nipples and eyelids also form and digits separate among thousands of other things during the 7th week of gestation, I wonder why people focus on pineal. The buddhist notion about when soul enters the body could very well mean that the soul leaves in the nipples.

Dreams can be pretty bizar. I've heared some crazy stories. They get more realistic when you are lucid. But that's just the start. From there on you can experience some wild ass things you would think someone has to take in copious amounts of drugs to get there. Dreams are in fact the closest thing known to man that compares with the DMT experience. And funny enough, everybody has them.

Im with you Crazyhorse in not wanting this promising thread to turn into the shit storm like another thread recently. I agree with some of your points most notably people jumping in to shout that the verdict is in and the pineal has NOTHING to do with dmt production in the body or dreaming and death experiences. This may be the case it may not. The truth is sufficient research hasn't been done in this area yet to be conclusive so people shouldn't be so quick to speak as it has.

First...as you probably know,

A scientific theory is the highest point a scientific idea or hypothesis can achieve. Facts are included in the data that can support or refute a theory. Many people get stuck on these terms and say things like "its called the Theory of Evolution not the fact of evolution" and to be honest they are simply showing how little they understand science in that one sentence. Im not saying this is you btw.

Facts are different things than theories completely. Facts support theories but a theory will never become a fact. It can only be supported overwhelmingly by the collected data as in the case of evolution and the big bang and be considered accepted science. (someone correct me if im mis speaking here). Evolution and the Big Bang are as close to being a fact as is possible in science. They are as close to proven as a theory can be. There is no debate other than special interest, creationist nuts, and fringe/pseudo sciences.

This is why I bring this all up not to make you look wrong just to show you that your comparison isn't accurate. In the case for the Theory of Evolution, yes its a theory but one that is supported to be correct by ALL of our sciences. Genetics, biology, chemistry, anthropology ext. All of the research in these sciences points the the exact same thing which is that evolution is REAL and is accepted as such by anyone who knows what they are talking about. (yep thats gonna ruffle some feathers but its true). If you choose to deny what ALL the sciences, all our collective observations of the natural world are showing to be true, you dont know what your talking about, imo.


The same with the Big Bang. Physics, cosmology, chemistry, ext all point to the same conclusions. The big bang happened. So hopefully you see why its not the same thing as the hypothesis , not really a theory, that dmt is made in the pineal gland. Its different because the data didn't support it unlike Evolution and the BIg Bang so its a bad comparison imo.

But where I agree with you is just because one scientists research didn't support this idea doesn't mean the verdict is in and its a done deal. Like you said we need more research in this area. maybe Strassman was going about things the wrong way and is a half wit therefore didn't detect dmt there. Im not saying this is the case just that if anyone is going to comment on this subject accurately all they can say is; one scientist, that was able to do research with dmt and the pineal gland didnt find it there, period. Doesn't mean it never will be.






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They've already known for sometime that DMT is present in your blood in minuscule amounts. I can't remember the post but there was some breakthrough in being able to detect the small amounts of DMT and some other chemicals. Anyways...

My dreams alone are like mushroom experiences. Now I cannot compare them to breakthroughs, as I have not had one yet, but the visual ability reminds me of how I "see" in dreams quite a bit. Only that dreams seem like DMT visuals with a slight haze added on.

I've recently been recalling dreams much better lately and they are even more intense than they used to be. My dreams contain things that represent daily reality, but mostly are built in abstract craziness that only someone who overdosed on LSD could come up with.

Edit: dang it. Sorry for continuing to derail your thread.

Dr. Strassman and his team actually are researching this now and we should be learning a lot about the function of endogenous DMT in the near futre.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=36251

I thought it was really interesting what that woman said on spirit molecule too about bein in that place where spirits wait to be born and she felt like shed been there before thats crazy.

Yes you're right I see your point. There's really not enough support for any of the ideas about DMT to call them theories, so hypothesis is the right term. Just trying to make a point to the guys who would rather bicker about what's been proven and what hasn't, than set that aside long enough to try to have a productive discussion on an interesting topic.

I had thought that Strassman was the one who originated all the pineal/DMT talk, but I guess you're saying his research said there's NOT a connection? That's interesting, I haven't had a chance to read his book yet myself so I don't know, I just see him being referenced in support of it all the time, on boards like this and by Rogan etc. But I've also read about the lungs idea. I really don't think it matters, what interests me most isn't where it comes from but why it's in us at all (and in so many other things too.)



That's the first I've heard of this, good to know thanks for the info!

Just a quick de-rail here (apologies)

I remember reading somewhere recently (can't remember where on the net)

That the Pineal Gland actually forms in the roof of the mouth (in early feotus) and travels up into the brain as development progresses...
It is also 'light sensitive' at that point...

What's THAT all about..???

Sorry just another piece of the puzzle..
(Pineal research goes back quite a long way in the medical circles)

Strassman himself said that the pineal connection he made was just a supposition and needs to be looked into for confirmation. He stated this in his book, The Spirit Molecule.



The pineal migration from the mouth roof to the brain center was also his speculation from the same book; however, I haven't closely monitored the development of a fetus lately, so I really can't say whether this is true or not.

Sorry if I'm derailing the thread, just wanted to contribute this info, I don't have anything on the DMT vs NDE issue.

Ah I see. Like I said, I haven't read it yet. I'm still a noob to the DMT world. I Just saw the documentary and I don't think the pineal was mentioned.

However, I DID read the much more recent statement that Dreamer linked to above, in which he says:

"This effort has been made even more important following the recent discoveries of Cozzi et al. (5) that the enzyme responsible for synthesis of the endogenous hallucinogens is present in pineal gland, brain, spinal cord and retinal tissues of primates and appears to be an inducible enzyme, an enzyme that responds to specific signals. "

Not trying to start a debate about it, this STILL isn't proof of anything. But it says to me he's still investigating all the possibilities and we should hopefully have more solid info very soon.

Unfortunately I don't have any info on the NDE connection either, but it does seem to make a lot of sense, and the anecdotal account above is pretty interesting. It's a shame the guy isn't still around to talk to anymore though.

Sure theyre bizarre and realistic but I find absolutely no connection to the dmt experience whatsoever and I can't imagine anyone who's done dmt thinking so either. Perhaps psychedelics have influenced people's dreams but they're definitely not the same thing. When I say dmt is weird I mean it's f***ing weird beyond comprehension. After reading about dmt I thought I was in for a dream like experience and boy was I wrong. It couldn't have been further from such a thing. In fact I'd say sober reality is closer to lucid dreaming than dmt is.

I've overdosed on heroin 2 times. The first time it took the emt 2 shots of Naloxone to revive me. My lips were purple and I had been out for 15 minutes, so I was told. I didnt experience anything.

Did they hook you up to an ekg and or eeg? Were you true flat line, heart stopped, no neural activity? Some od's are very close to death but hovering with very low blood pressure and heart rate but not actually dead. The vast majority of flat liners do not have classic NDE's . They remember nothing.

That's amazing crazy stuff. I'm so glad your still with us. As a former addict I have huge empathy and respect for the struggle. Much love amigo.

Thought you might find this post interesting as well.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=33124