you dont need to make your mind up, science has done that for you .

Not to re- derail the thread or anything, but I wanted to touch on that "flashback" thing.

I think much of the popular conception of flashbacks is that you somehow end up with something stored in your fatty tissues or whatever, and then you end up having some kind of mini experience when the stuff is dislodged and re-metabolized. And although I don't argue that such a thing might happen with a heavy user (or former heavy user), I don't think that's where the majority of so-called flashbacks come from.

When I had my first big psychedelic breakthroughs, and in the three or four acid-soaked years surrounding those, I had just shattered my reality. I had gone from being an overly confident art kid with a small but concrete-feeling mechanistic worldview, to having to let those beliefs go and permanently make myself comfortable with not knowing; I had to learn to hold those two big contradicting truths in my head- that, while being a smelly primate, I was also, in some sense, the mind of the universe.

So we are talking about a huge cognitive dissonance here. A paradigm shift as epic as they come. And I think this probably happens to a lot of people who embark on serious psychedelic exploration.

So there you are, standing in line at the grocery store. You are surrounded by the mundane: tabloids talking about celebrity love handles; PayDay bars; woman with slightly impatient toddler; the ka-ching of the cash register. Yet it is all totally new- that toddler is a complex manifestation of divine love and order; that PayDay bar a multidimensional abstraction. And the passing of time... You stand there, hearing the murmur around you, allowing your consciousness to merge in and out of the linear flow of time, going off on other errands in all different temporal directions.

So would this kind of everyday experience be a flashback? Or simply an exploration of a new set of understandings?

And no, these new understandings don't go away, even decades later. But the more you integrate them, the less unhinged your new reality will feel.

Now back to the OP: in terms of substances that are more or less commonly available and known to the public, in terms of average dosage vs level of experience, in terms of how much your reality can be shattered forever by a single five minute trip, DMT reigns supreme, IMO.

Yes I forgot about joe rogan. He gleaned alot of his info from straussmans book and spouts if off like fact, but even the book says its just conjecture and is yet to be proven.

Can't wait till I go on my trip

I've never taken a mega dose of LSD, so I'm unable to comment on that dose range personally, however I feel compelled to point something out. The comparison you draw between LSD and DMT at similar subjective effect ranges is only accounting for where the "wall wiggling" effects come into play. I think the argument that joe was trying to make was that if you were to make the same comparison for a breakthrough dose of each (regardless of what the physical dose size is) that the LSD experience can seem more powerful. On the other hand, Guyomech draws the analogy between LSD and a blunt instrument, so I can't comment personally other than to say I've read other mega LSD experiences that run contrary to that opinion. It's really so hard to tell because putting everything aside, everyone's breakthrough DMT experiences are gonna be different from each other and their breakthrough LSD experiences are gonna be different from each other, so it's really hard to even tell what we're comparing here.

Now I will speak to this comparison from my own personal experience of each. I do feel to be on your side as well JacksonMetaller. The sheer clarity and presence of magical, absurd, and significantly meaningful and detailed hallucinations of DMT along with the austere religious/spiritually ecstatic experiences make it hard to say that LSD is more powerful than DMT, but as one of the above posters pointed out, people are much more willing to take a breakthrough dose of DMT than LSD, so most of us only have moderate experiences with which to compare to our DMT experiences. Also as was noted, 5-MeO DMT is more powerful than DMT subjectively (it can tend to frighten and overwhelm even the most experienced of N,N users). I believe James Oroc either came up with or pointed out the saying that 5-MeO DMT is the "power" and N,N DMT is the "glory".

with salvinorin-A has reverse tollernace.
my god, my last experiance was nutty

Not to derail the thread either, but how does reverse tolerance work? I'll look it up now.

"Reverse tolerance" can seem a bit arcane. Think of it more as increasing one's sensitivity to a substance. Through repeated excitation of certain neural pathways, they become easier to excite, and one's sensitivity to them is increased. This happens with DMT as well.

I'd wager it gets so much attention because of hyperspace, whatever that may be. Sure you can sort of get there with mushrooms and such, I can speak from experience, but it's rough as hell, and the rest of your mind is sort of a mess by that point. DMT puts you in hyperspace reliably, and so far as I can tell it's a great deal more lucid than it would be if you overdosed a bunch of acid... It wears off in a matter of minutes, it's easy to obtain, easy to dose and the experience is second to none. Most powerful for sure. What's not to love ?