let's see...

deadly mandrake
castor beans
Datura spp.
Strychnos nux-vomica L.
mescal beans...

the list goes on and on. all of these "natural" alk sources are much more deadly
than the common RC's.

the whole "natural" vs. synthetic is a tired argument rooted in ignorance.
give it a rest already.

^ that does not change the fact that psilocybin, mescaline, DMT, salvinorin etc have a very very long history of safe human use behind them..they have been studied and it is understood well that these substances are not toxic at all in the doses we would be using them..there are no deaths atributed to them..you can grow them at home and find them in nature in the form of plants so you can both cut out shady vendors etc and you can be sure that you have what you are expecting to have.

You cannot make these claims of RC's..

Exactly.

Last time I checked plants don't make many synth mistakes or labelling errors.

I'm very aware some plants are toxic, hence I do my research before I use. I have no way of doing this with LSD/RC's etc.

sure you do.
we're in the thick of the information age. we didn't have this much accessible knowledge even 21 years ago. there are reports galore on a vast array of compounds.
you no longer need to delve through index cards or microfiche to get references.

the only gripe I have with RC's is you roll the dice regarding quality control measures; there is no international standard protocol for ensuring quality control is implemented with these compounds.

but, this is why we post threads about qualitative chemical tests.

jamie, salvinorin is still a new compound in pharmacological research fields. they barely elucidated within the past couple decades that it acts on kappa receptors, which are still poorly understood. salvia was still largely unheard of up to the early part of the 21st century.

Yeah this thread became a bit of a discussion on whether vendors are safe rather than if the actual rc's are safe.

I'ding the rc or the plant etc is where the dangers lie. Vendors of both rc's and natural entheogens have probably sold mislabelled things.

Thank goodness for forums like this wherewe can discuss such things and educate ourselves

Honestly with the popularity of rc's nowadays its actually quite easy to get an estimation on how safe a specific chemical is at normal dosages.

If you wait at least six months to a year after a popular drug has reached the market you will have thousands upon thousands of reports to study what effects and potential side effects a drug will have.

Also there will always be idiots pushing the boundries like these swedish kids who died from 5it due to overdosing an unknown chemical, this is sad but it does keep us responsible users at bay and reminds us to always start with allergy tests (dose the smallest amount possible etc) and start from there.

Taking rc's does come with some riscs but as long as you actually research the chemicals properly and esp the vendors then the riscs can be cut to a minimum.

Not so fast Benzyme. Haven't we forgotten human error of the mislabelled compound being sent out and causing deaths. It's happened already. When you buy an RC even from a trusted source you are usually buying with your trust in their hands. If it goes wrong who you gonna tell??

WHERE'S THE QUALITY CONTROL??, ISN'T THAT IMPORTANT? or are liver transplants 2 a penny these days??

Do you know if its correctly synthed, etc?? There has been 1 horrid incident in the past that turned hippies into veggies.

OK, Datura, nightshades, bla bla bla...you have to go and physically pick them, that's the difference. you are in control if you go looking for wild plants. That's the difference. With RC'S you put your trust into a vendor. Sure he may recieve feedback that his 5-it has put someone in hospital, or killed them, but that's too late.

If they are properly manufactured to quality checks deeming it safe, then they would no longer be under the guize of research chemicals. untill then, you diminish your being and put your life into the hands of some kid wanting to make a quick buck. When you fail to master your own life someone else will take over and do it for you. You put your health into their hands!.. mmmm, enough already!

Sorry i need to chime in here. Recently a nexian who was banned was ingesting large amounts of changa and smoking unknown plants from the side of the road. We all agree that is dangerous. The death from 25-x nbome in australia was caused by the guy running headfirst into stationary objects. He would probably have done the same thing on shrooms or ayahuasca. I don't blame the drug It's the unstable user or unecucated user. The guys in sweden were sold dodgy stuff imo because they reside in sweden where the drug laws are pretty shitty meaning that the drug users there need to place their trust in any old vendor they can get a hold of. We don't have that problem in the uk or the us. so why do you keep using that argument? you live in the uk!

You are involved in rc drug forums too, do you spout this stuff on that forum too? I hate to do this but you are pushing yourself into a corner.

Ive never heard of mislabelled drugs killing people in the uk but i have heard of people dying through 5-it and mxe and mephedrone etc. which most of them are banned in the us and the uk.

And you keep going on about kids selling drugs on dodgy websites! who the frack were you buying from?? I don't buy from kids peddling drugs on dodgy websites. I buy from tried and trusted vendors not kids lol.

You have totally sidetracked this thread. Why don't you start a dangerous vendor rc thread somewhere on the forum if thats even allowed.

No offenece christian but you get my heckles up with your constant bashing and seemingly know it all attitude. ffs man.

aMT and the NBOMe's are both known to be safe at advised doseages. People who die on them are doing something wrong or are maybe suffering anaplactic shcock or something. Or are buying their chemsa from idiots.

Demented, just because i'm a member of other RC sites, doesn't mean i use them. The "scene" i find fascinating, and i can see it for what it is, and it's all about making a quick buck.

This is not the same as forums like drugs forum or erowid which are totally neutral!

> If you did as much research as i did you will KNOW that there have been numerous RC related deaths in the UK, and even the bestest of "reliable?" vendors have had mishaps with dodgy batches, etc.

-Regardless, i was simply spreading awareness about the safety of RC'S of which you seemed to be rather ignorant about, spamming threads with your aMT getting smashed experiences like kids do on other RC forums. I just thought it looked childish, and made RC's look like toys to be played with, when they are not.

-I didn't like the way you started talking about DMT on a RC pushing forum a while back, where the general vibes there are: lets take stuff and go crazy, oh and when's the next meph' replacement, etc! (i'm glad that you have now stopped mentioning DMT there, but i use this to illustrate irresponsible posting without understanding a forum's type of vibes)

> It sounds irresponsible because it is to post like this. These are NOT toys, and when you post: it gets noticed. Is it good to talk about taking a high aMT dose, then take nbomes to get smashed?? What message does this send out!... Do you think it's sensible??.. Do you think any authority reading your post will be impressed with your attitude to these things??..Do you think that people like you may actually be damaging a scene that you so cherish with your RC mixing adventures of unknown toxicities??? Don't you realise the message you send out when you post what you do??..Maybe take a step back is what i'm saying and think about that before posting, because your posts can influence others who may look to you for advice, may be some youngster, etc.

I already apologised for my irresponsible mention about getting smashed. I was under the influence of a strong drug and quite literally felt like i was on top of the qorld at the time. As i said when i read it sober i grimaced.

My problem is you keep going on about rc's being unsafe wehn the fact of the matter is it's vendors who are unsafe and not the actual rc's themselves. As i said the nbomes and amt have been widely researched and are both safe imo. If you buy rc's from silly kids online then expect to get burned. I just don't think tarring the actual drugs themselves gets us anywhere. It's just scare tactics. Asi also said why dont you make a dangerof rc vendors thread instead of spamming with non useful spitefullness aimed at rc vendors who have obviously pissed you off.

The reason i wont delete my getting smashed post unless im told to do so by a mod is that i think its part of the amt experience. Anyone who know me knows i dont talk like that. That sentence came part and parcel with the whole experience. peace man.

Demented, you still don't get it do you. This is not about some Vendor who "pissed me off", i'm not that petty or shallow, this is about raising awareness of the TRUTH.

There are 2 factors at play here:

1, RC'S are not safe, because they are "research chemicals", and you are the guineau pig.
Quality control is also unknown.

2, Vendors not only sometimes make mistakes, but some also use cutting agents in their products meaning that 1 vendors chemical may cause an overdose that anothers caused threshold experiences on. You really are at their mercy as to what they tell you because unless you undertake your own expensive tests you won't know.

So you are totally WRONG to say that rc's are safe, it's IMPOSSIBLE for them to be so. You have a lot to learn, and i hope you do so safely.

Just thought i'd mention that simple truth. Have a nice day.

Ok let me rephrase that then. The rc's i have taken recently have been safe and have been bought from reliable vendors and not kids peddling drugs online.

When i talk of the rc's being safe i of course mean the actual chemical itself as advertised.

I do agree that there are dodgy vendors out there but i don't use them.

There is NOTHING safe about the purest "research chemical" sold online by the bestest of vendors in the world, because they have never been tested for safety.

That is why they maust be sold "not for human consumption"!

--Hey have a good day, and have a little think about that one.

aMT has been getting tested for 50 years! Iknow the nbomes are new so i wont claim them to be safe but with safe administration and responsible use and doseage etc i see no problem with them ..yet

They are sold "not for human consumtion" to get round food and drug laws and for no other reason. As i said aMT has been thoroughly researched already. Have a great day christian

aMT was used as an antidepressant in very LOW doses, yet was withdrawn because of side effects. This should mean alarm bells already. It has not been researched for safety in large doses, however, like it is currently used, by the "scene".

The way rc's are sold is to bypass the medicines act. Clearly they cannot be sold legally for human consumption because any drug like substance that does must have government advice and warnings to protect the consumer.

Demented, if you almost kill yourself on an RC, i'd like to know how the RC vendor will be of assistence. Looking forward to any info on that one .

Cheers.

i don't expect the vendor to be of any help the same way i don't expect tesco to help me if i choke on one of their bananas. I would have an ambulance called and give them all the information they need to help save my life.

Amt has shown to be slightly neurotoxic which is why i assume it was banned by the russian medical folks. I dont intend to take aMT everyday. Once or twice a year will do me fine.

Theres plenty of unsafe drugs peddled to the population by government regulated doctors etc. Drugs are inherently dangerous, especially ones you need to take everyday. peace bro

True, but you have legal protection on your side when things go wrong, if they do. Being an unpaid labrat isn't so cool.

Cheers dude.

Agreed