This video presentation is from the Psychedelic Science in the 21st Century, a conference in San Jose, California. (April 15-18, '10)

Quite a wonderful presentation given in 25 minutes. I want to get some discussion going and see what the community thinks about all this. As most of you probably know, James Kent is the author of Psychedelic Information Theory. Which is freely available for download as an e-book here. And here's Kent's homepage.

Additional Links:

To Catch A DMT Elf: http://www.dosenation.com/listing.php?id=1552
Kent's Interview with Psychedelic Press UK: http://psypressuk.com/20.../interview-james-l-kent/
Reality Sandwich Interview: http://www.realitysandwi...om/discussion_james_kent

Kent has some interesting things to say, but i don't take any of it too seriously after reading his "case against the dmt elves" piece where he reduces the experience to basically random brain noise, in some ways http://www.tripzine.com/...ting.php?id=dmt_pickover

IMO that article clearly indicated he has either very little actual deep experience with dmt, and/or he had some very terrifying ones and is now pulling a classical joemolly/jobono (i.e. reactionary/fear refutation). For example, he said

"Although this [the dmt experience] may appear at first glance to be "shocking," it is actually no more shocking then the fact that most people dream at night, or that most people see geometric patterns (pressure phosphenes) when they close their eyes and press against their eyeballs. But the difference between pressure phosphenes and DMT is that DMT is illegal and very hard to come by, so most people never have the opportunity to experience it. If we could all hold our breath for a minute and produce vivid hallucinations of alien landscapes it would seem quite mundane, no more than a mere curiosity of the human condition. However, since this particular alien landscape is produced by a specific rare substance (DMT), people seem to think it is akin to unlocking the mysteries of the universe when they actually get their hands on it.

Now don't get me wrong, DMT is stunning in its effect, no doubt. But, like anything, when you do it many times the magic tends to wear off and reveal itself for what it is; an exotic aberration of the brain's perceptual mechanics."

dmt is no more shocking than the fact that people see patterns when they put pressure on they're eyeballs? really?? I also have observed the opposite among people in regards to his notion that "the magic tends to wear off over time" after many experiences. From what i've experienced after hundreds of trips, and read from countless other psychonauts, nothing could be further from the truth there

^^I think Mr Kents description/explanation that UC quote above is a tad misleading/disingenuous because the 'aberration' induced by DMT is a whole lot more than simply producing alien landscapes as he fails to mention the associated cognitive aspects of the experience.Should DMT evoke the alien landscapes without the additional head-effects then he has some truth to his words.But, realistically, how can the 2 aspects be separated?

I don't feel that the experience has anything to do with it being rare. On the contrary it's very abundant. It's just illegal.

Yet, I don't completely deny that it's possible it could all just be "noise". I don't believe it is but it kinda makes sense, the possibility of it. The human mind is not very well understood. I describe my dreams as random thoughts and information coming together as patterns that are visually displayed to me during sleep. Many objects, structures, people, and activities that occur in my dreams have a lot of significance with things in my day to day life. Things I see hear and experience deeply effect my dreams (which I'm finally having btw due to nicotine patches).

I wouldn't be very disappointed if I found out there was nothing special happening rather than cool visuals. I didn't feel this way at first. BUT the experiences I have had make it very difficult to actually agree that it isn't real in the sense that I am experiencing something that operates without my presence, elsewhere. I doubt someone one is going to be able to analyze the experience itself and come up with any kind of real answers as to what and how it is.

After skimming through Psychedelic Information Theory (I will give it a proper reading when I get the time), one of Kent's ideas/theories stuck out to me. He proposes that during a deep psychedelic state, what is being viewed by consciousness is reality at the quantum level.

I thought that was a refreshing, scientific take on what is happening during a deep breakthrough (and a nice continuation on Aldous Huxley's Mind at Large/filter of reality ideas).

Can you explain what was scientific about this?


Kind regards,

The Traveler

Mr. Kents theory/idea/s regarding the psychedelic experience in no way, shape, or form explains even remotely what I experience on a huge breakthrough dose in one hit......no it does not.

I applaud the man for his efforts in trying to understand an experience (that in my eyes) is simply IMPOSSIBLE to describe in conventional reductionist means. I give him an A for effort.....but that's all it is.....EFFORT....effort that dissolves in the face of such an experience, especially the heavy experiences.

Sorry there Trav, I think I might have been hasty in the use of the word scientific. His idea of psychedelics being a way of viewing reality at a quantum level obviously is speculation at this point (and may remain that way) so perhaps pseudo-scientific would have been a better term?

I'll admit straight up that my understanding of science, especially at the quantum level, is not my strong point (though I do try to understand and learn more about it when I can).

I have to agree with the others here who find Kent's assertions lacking. I am even inclined to give his book an EPIC FAIL title, but I haven't actually finished it... so I will refrain.

I guess he means well. But it seems to me his experience as a psychonaut is akin to someone who went to NASA space camp calling themselves an astronaut. If all you know of the psychedelic world is the minor synesthesia, trails, patterns and hypnogogic type imagery that one gets from threshold doses of LSD or mushrooms... you might be able to imagine the noise hypothesis. Breaking through on DMT and remembering even 2% of that experience shit cans that concept for me utterly and completely.

Also, as a regular and lifelong lucid dreamer... his portrayal of the dream experience smacks of inexperience and wrongheaded assumptions as well. No one would presume to write books about nuclear physics without having extensive decades long experience in the field, but every guy who remembers a half a dream in the morning feels qualified to say what dreaming is or is not.


Of course, it is just my opinion that he is postulating from a position of rank inexperience, and even so, he could still be right regardless... and may well be about certain specifics... except that IMO he is not right and his conjectures are laughable. The psychonauts in my circle tend to laugh out loud and weep tears of joy reading his words or listening to him talk. It is like someone who read a pop psychology book on social interactions and watched a few playground playdates coming to the UN and purporting to understand the underlying causes and structure of international diplomacy.

i haven't read psychedelic information theory, but proposing that the psychedelic experience involves quantum level processes in the brain really isn't anything new at all

Leary, wilson,mckenna, and others all suggested as much almost 40 years ago now. The docs who wrote the book you're name comes from, inner paths to outter space, also suggests a model like this involving the microfilamental system. Whether anything like that will be found to be true, i don't know. But looking deeply at my own experiences, and others, i'd be hard pressed not to admit there seems to be some blatantly obvious non-local qualities to them

yeah the guy comes up short IMO..I found his ideas interesting but not really convincing when I first heard them a few years ago..I dont think he has the answer to whats going on that is for sure.

James Kent said:

Just wanted to make sure we keep our integrity here, thank you for explaining.


And I think that James Kent, like us, is still searching for an explanation to our hyperspace world. We might not take it for 100% proof of anything but it might be a clue to solving some puzzles without our own mindsets. I guess that James Kent is fully aware of this and is already working on part 2.0 of the evolution of his thoughts on this subject.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

"Psychedelic Information Theory" misuses several mathematical ideas in a variety of places. As a scientist (mathematician) I was very disappointed in this. The neurochemistry overview sounded coherent and was interesting but I'm not a specialist in that field so I cannot comment on the accuracy. Other than the chemistry, it is does not qualify as a scientific treatise. As speculative metaphor? Perhaps. But Kent claimed he was writing science and this doesn't hold up.



As an operating principle, if you are reading a work of philosophy, religion, or psychology and someone mentions quantum mechanics you should immediately become suspicious of the quality of the thinking. Quantum mechanics is our most accurate and precise physical theory but is horribly, horribly overused to draw conclusions about "fundamental reality".

eH

Good point.

I can’t remember the name of the logical fallacy involved, but it’s something like “appeal to complexity”. It involves “explaining” one unknown with another unknown, resulting in not really explaining anything at all.

Consciousness is not well understood. The relationship between psychedelic states and consciousness is not well understood. Quantum mechanics, although capable of very accurate predictions, is not well understood. So what do we gain by explaining one unknown in terms of another?

I probably should've been wiser in my choice of words. There is book by James Oroc "Tryptamine Palace" that touches on quantum principles within the psychedelic experience too, as well as the others mentioned by universecannon which I have read some of as well, I must have had a brain fart moment by not remembering the other examples when I wrote my initial post. I think it's a fascinating speculation none the less. I'll stress again that I am not a scientist and I still struggle with understanding science at times so I'll be more wise with my use of words pertaining to scientific principle in the future.

Some of Kent's ideas I find interesting, others not so much ("A case against DMT elves" for example).

Thanks for the dialog in regards to this though, it helps me to learn more about the boundaries of science and what is and is not considered a scientific approach

I haven't read his book yet, but I did find his lecture interesting. Atleast he's trying to give some model for the mechanics of this process; and in that event, I give him credit for his efforts. The neuro-reductionist theory has its place and doesn't necessarily mitigate the value of the experience. We're really just beginning to scratch the surface on the scientific modalities of understanding how these compounds work. And I think Kent's assertions, although possibly flawed in some ways, still attempt to chart the waters on a seemingly vast ocean. And for this, his work is worth investigating.

However, we need far more research done in many areas before we can begin to draw some sort of framework for this experience and it's not a guarantee that we will even be able to.

great post hyperspace fool

I don't really agree with James Kent but salute his attempt to make sense of things, I read his case on the Elves a while ago and was somehow glad to see someone who remains skeptic after doing it "a bunch of times". Though I m not sure that asking the Elves to do some maths so we can test their intelligence is the way to go.

In my view both Reality and the DMT state are the result of our nervous system's interaction with a neurotransmitter, so they both share a common base-root in the way that they are produced. With this in mind I find it difficult to call one completely real and the other one completely non-real or just made up by the brain. I think I never heard him or others taking this into account actually.

I like the idea of testing the DMT space and its residents though, had anyone here been conducting experiments of some sort and had some results, strengthening or changing his opinions about it?