Hi everyone,

I have been dealing with social anxiety and depression for several years now and have tried numerous therapies over the past 10 years including drug therapy being prescribed by my doctor. To make along story short, I have been taking a benzo called klonopin for about 3 years and have recently weaned myself off it. I have not taken anything in about 2 months and feel really strong anxiety. It feels very debilitating. I need to find something to help the anxiety but want to go the natural route. I am tired of suppressing the issue and would like to get to the heart of the problem or at least make the anxiety manageable for now. Any advice on natural remedies that have worked for you would be helpful.

I have actually been to Peru about a month ago to try to overcome my problem and taken part in 4 ceremonies of ayahuasca brew. They were intense and a bit helpful, but unpleasant due to the anxiety. I see the value but I am looking for something on a more daily basis that is not overwhelming.

Here are some ideas that have been floating around:
-I have bought and am waiting for kava kava powder to be shipped to make tea from.
-Phenibut - Supplement?
-L-Theanine – Supplement powder?
-blue lotus herb?
- I have read on the forums that Microdosing with ayahuasca occasionally may be of help for insight that is not overwhelming. I know nothing about this at the moment.

Any help would be appreciated as this anxiety is very debilitating at the moment.

Thanks in advance!

I think I have the same thing you describe, for as long as I can remember... Never been diagnosed or prescribed though.

I find marijuana to be helpful even if briefly. If you get high enough you will forget at least in the moment. The only thing is that tolerance builds and regular re-dosing is required.

I find MJ is ok for me, but I am not functional on it unless I am at home. I tend to get a bit paranoid outside with it. MJ is not really what I am looking for right now.

kava kava and phenibut will be mildly familiar in feeling for you since you were taking benzos before. they effect the same receptors in the brain but obviously at a much milder level. they'd probably be good for weaning off benzos but since you've been off for 2 months it may just trigger a craving to go back to taking benzos regularly which you obviously don't want.

L-theanine as a supplement imo is pointless. you might as well get green tea (where theanine is from) for cheap which is healthier as well.

I honestly can't stand people using/advocating MJ as a daily treatment for anxiety or depression. They might as well be taking oxycontin which is much more effective at daily dopamine dosing. Most of my stoner friends say they don't even get high they get "normal" so they're not even getting the positive psychedelic effects they're just getting their dopamine leveled. Weed is very psychoactive and is a psychedelic that should be respected as such. I think it'd be good to use weekly in high dosage like terrence mckenna says. That way you can figure out the roots of your anxiety but not use it as a daily anxiety blocker, that will only lead to more problems IME. I got more anxiety than ever in my life from smoking weed regularly, I realized it needs to be respected and not ab-used.

Ayahuasca is super helpful. DMT is anxiolytic and MAOI is antidepressant so physically it truly is an amazing synergy for anti-anxiety/depression as well as mentally understanding your problems.

I've also heard people taking caapi in daily microdose to help their serotonin levels and keep them out of depression, but that's just like any other MAOI anti-d prescription but more expensive. You'd be better off getting some mapacho tobacco and smoking once a day puffing cheeks and not inhaling (I personally do this and it has helped my anxiety).

All psychoactives aside, if you really want to naturally cure your anxiety or depression you've got to take care of your body. The better you nourish and work your body the better you feel mentally. Popular western thought regards mind and body as separate, which couldn't be further from the truth. They posit that as long as you take the right pills and have a good mentality you can let your body go to shit, not thinking that the body is probably what's causing the need for pills in the first place.

Diet and exercise play the LARGEST role on your daily mental functioning. I've heard many people report ayahuasca teaching them that a lot of their mental anguish came from poor nourishment and exercise of their body.

I used to not care what I ate while hardly exercising and I wasn't ever overweight at all, but I suffered from A LOT of anxiety and depression. Once I changed my diet and started exercising I had a complete 100% turn around in anxiety and depression. Here is a real good ebook about the "golden age" diet which is fruitarian, the best food for brain function. It also shows how fruitarian diet can boost your right brain functioning helping to take you out of the anxiety/depression driven analytical left brain.
http://leftinthedark.org...ark%20free%20edition.pdf

Supposedly our diet during the 'golden age' when we had the largest brain capacity and were still aboreal (forest aka paradise) animals was 75% fruits and 25% veggies. We didn't eat grains until the start of agriculture (parallel to civilization), and they have charted since then a steady decline in physical and mental health with the meat and grain dominant diet. Grains give the brain a glucose rush and crash and release insulin, as opposed to the slow glucose digestion of fruit. Also, physically, our teeth, stomach, intestines, and colon aren't meant to digest meat as often as we do.

I'm not saying you gotta be super strict or become some raw vegan, but just be moderate. I still eat meat but not all the time. I also eat a lot of foods high in omega-3 & 6 fats and love my cholesterol. Our brains are made up of water and cholesterol so it's good to be eating that butter and fat !

The next level is getting back to indigenous diets and trying to incorporate plants like wild lettuce, dandelions, etc which have the highest medicinal value. Most of the fruits and veggies we see in the supermarket are degenerated versions of wild plants so they have a fraction of the nutrients. i.e. wild rice vs any other manufactured rice

Hope I was of a little help to you. Good luck with your journey towards an anxiety and depression free life. Even with a perfect physical/mental you will still have problems etc, it's just about shifting perspective and finding the benefit from the bad shit. Also, I think anxiety can be helpful in certain situations and can play a big part in your intuition.

Thanks for the thoughtful post. I already eat very healthy and am not a big fan of meat. I could use more fruits in my diet. I also run often for exercise.

Mapacho smoke is an interesting concept. I smoked a mapacho once after the ayahuasca trip and it was relaxing a bit, but I am trying to stay away from smoking as I have quit smoking cigarettes over a half year ago and don't want to fall back into the habit of smoking. Plus tobacco smoke is known to increase anxiety. I may look into the mapacho idea.

I was thinking of a more natural supplement combination I could take daily or so. I believe the majority of my debilitating anxiety comes from the problems left over from klonopin discontinuation. I have never had anxiety this bad and it has increased 10x what I am used to. I basically am looking for something extremely calming in the meantime as my body readjusts to life without Klonopin. In the longer term I would like to resolve the issues that caused the anxiety in the first place, maybe with MJ, ayahuasca, shrooms, ?

I will look into the ebook though as it does seem like good knowledge.

You should visit some forums that deal with the notoriously nasty benzo withdrawal symptoms, if you haven't already (there are many).

For natural supplement to a benzo I'd say your best bet is the kava. You can also get it in tincture and not even have to make a tea out of it. http://www.medicinemanhe...ava-tincture-p/kk15t.htm

I'm sure he's felt them if he's been off of it for a couple months. According to many medical websites Kava is actually used in benzo withdrawal.

I will add though that just b/c kava is more natural doesn't mean it's less dangerous or obstructive. You can get liver damage from too much and can get addicted like most other sedative medicines. Also, there have been reported deaths from overdose of kava. So please treat it with the same respect as you would benzos. It may not be as effective as the benzos so it could be easy to get caught up in going overboard.

Edit note:
When I've withdrawn from prescription meds it's just been a matter of time waiting to get back to normal levels. If you've been taking a med for a few years and then stop all of a sudden it will have a HUGE reverse effect on your daily mentality. Personally, I went cold turkey with adderal and for a week after I couldn't even keep my attention straight enough to formulate a logical sentence when talking to people. Figured out I never really had ADD in the first place and that I just needed to take care of my diet and excercise and start feeding my brain with attention stimulating activity.

for anxiety i would stay away from all gaba agonists since they downregulate gaba in the long run. including phenibut(although im a big fan of it), kava kava, alcohol, valerian, ashwaganda. not even mentioning benzos.

also habitual use of cannabis will lead to overall lowering gaba, should avoid as well.

caffeine inhibits gaba production too.

i would recommend piracetam, and anxiolytics that aren't gaba receptor agonists. relora, bacopa(upregulates downregulated gaba receptors), rhodiola, magnesium(malate form, 3+ times a day 1+gram each).

I am very aware of the Benzo withdrawal forums, but you gave me the idea to go back to seek advice there as well. It's been a while since I visited them.

Thanks for the advise on the Kava. I'll keep the dangers in mind. I already ordered the powder to make tea, but I saved your link to the kava extract for the future as well.

Lemon balm, contains the compound rosmarinic acid, which acts as a gaba transaminase inhibitor. It increases gaba activity by slowing down how fast its metabolized by enzymes. A crude comparison would be how harmalas do so to the enzyme monoamineoxidase, slowing down the metabolism of endogenous monoamines (like serotonin), or psychoactive ones (psychadelic tryptamines).

Benzos work by making gaba more effective, so your body reacts by producing less, and/or perhaps making the transaminase enzyme more effective at removing gaba iirc. Upon discontinuation you don't produce enough gaba, even after tapering down off benzos it takes a long time to get back to normal depending on how long you used them and your dosage.

I used it daily for a while after tapering off a fairly moderate etizolam habit (1mg daily for a few months), and its effective, not like benzos, but unlike benzos or kava (imho) has little to none of the cognitive impairing affects they exhibit. Still its very good for anxiety and stress i find, and is not habit forming or addictive im my experience, but don't know how it might screw with gaba receptors in the brain like benzos do in the long term, however i did not get rebound anxiety after several months of daily lemon balm tea, so its a far cry from benzos in that regard.

Can be a decent sleep/relaxation aid as well, just do a bit of research on it first, and if you have any kind of thyroid issues talk to a doctor about it first, as it has affects on the thyroid as well. For people sensitive due to thyroid hormone imbalances/deficiencies, it can have side affects or interfere with medication used to treat thyroid issues.

I noticed no side affects, and making tea from freshly picked leaves, well, tastes damn good to me. Compared to kava its like a good tasting herbal tea, and well, kava lol. Not to hate on kava or anything, its just an acquired taste. Lemon balm tea on the other hand is delicious to me, especially when mixed with jasmine green tea.

I'm happy that you are so active in trying to overcome your problem. I guess this is an important first step. Having to fight these problems myself, i wish i had an answer to you. All i can say is, that I figured that social anxiety might just be a symptom of a more serious, underlying problem. They say that you have to "go through" the anxiety. Well this might be true for really irrational fears, but i had to overcome my anxiety numerous times lately and it does not help.

Say, i have to to the students office to turn a paper in...i'd still feel miserable beforehands, feel almost shaky, nauseous...heart beating terribly. And for what? To say "I've got a paper toturn in for mr/mrs xyz!" BIG DEAL. It's ridiciolous and humiliating. But it does not change.

I would try to feel as good as you can, because this might give you the space to work on possible underlying problems. Excercize as mentioned, is a simple and good way. So is juices (veggies and fruit) and overall good dieting.

I wish you all the best man and a speedy recovery. If you found something that works, please feel free to share with us, because ...as you see, you are not the only one, unfortunatly.

Actually, kava does not downregulate gaba as proven in the following two scientific studies:

http://home.caregroup.or...erbs/Piper_methystic.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7701051

Kava has many other pharmacological effects aside from being a GABA agonist. They actually found that kava increases GABA receptor density as well as binding sites. I do agree though that it'd be wiser to look for other alternatives.

I take piracetam as well and don't see how it can help control anxiety, if anything taking large dose can cause anxiety. I also felt anxiety using bacopa. Can't say anything about relora, magnesium, or rhodiola.

You are correct. My GABA is low currently, Lemon Balm Tea, definitely gotta look into that.

Just a but of background: I was on 1mg of klonopin for about 3 years daily. I tapered down very slowly for a period of about 9 months and was off completely for the past 2 months. Finding it hard currently, but do not want to go back on any prescription meds.




Gotta look into these as I am not familiar with them. Basically need anxiolytics that aren't gaba receptor agonists.

Including Lemon Balm Tea

As some already mentioned in their replies, just because something is not rx doesn't necessarily make it safer. Often if a natural substitute seems to work well, you're just getting a compound similar to the one in the rx, with the added disadvantage that you can't properly control the dose.

You already said that your life style is on the healthy side, so maybe just take the benzo when you absolutely need it and don't focus too much on finding a magic supplement. Breathing helps a lot with anxiety, so does a regular yoga practice. You mentioned running -that helps burn the extra energy and lowers anxiety for a while, but it also builds a lot of tension in the leg muscles (often runners have very tight hamstrings, and that can throw your entire system off balance through postural issues and overcompensation). Deep tissue massage or the use of a foam roller also promote relaxation.

not to be ironic due to the boards that we're on but if you're looking for an anxiolytic I highly recommend none other than. dunh dunh dunnnnh DMT !

Here is a scientific double-blind study of ayahuasca admixture effects on anxiety/panic. Obviously the MAOI of the vine contributes greatly but what they say about DMT is just as interesting. It was originally posted on these boards by someone else but I reuploaded it to my mediafire. Check it out:

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?9dncoq0qpatackz

"It also is possible that DMT, a 5-HT2A/2C agonist that exerts
an effect similar of serotonin itself could
attenuate panic-like parameters since 5-HT2 receptor activation
in the dorsal periaqueductal grey has been associated to an alleviation
of panic symptoms"

Overlooked that. Yes, Piracetame gives me a boost in confidence but it works for only one week. It kinda feels like it boosts the good parts of your brain so the bad part does not have as much power as usual. But i suspect it being no good for my stomach, this is why i stopped taking it. Bot worth a try!

well, many do feel anxiolytic effect of piracetam, myself included, although effect is felt the strongest, far beyond subtle, only when its spaced apart by about a week or more. have you tried taking a break from it ? bacopa is mainly for recovery from gaba agonists, it hasn't been shown to have anxiolytic effect by itself.

i can also highly recommend deprenyl (selegiline - weak mao-b inhibitor) for depression treatment, and focus motivation etc. its non rx with lots of positive studies behind it and seemingly lack of negatives. dirt cheap too if you buy generics($1.50 per 10 tabs)

Micro dosing of DMT has a definite anxiolytic effect , just sniffing that lovely indole scent from the freebase sends waves of relaxation over me. Micro dosing via sub-lingual quids of Salvia divinorum has similar properties, cheap and still legal in a lot of places.

St Johns Wort has helped some. Kava can be toxic to the liver ( some have needed transplants from using it, ok rare, but...) Valeriana-St Johns Wort combo maybe better than Kava.

I'd stay away from weed, paranoia is almost a certainty if your'e withdrawing from benzo's. I've withdrawn from Benzo's many times, but still am able to take 2-3 a month ( dipotassium chlorzepate, Tranxene) without any problems, Also 1-2 Tramadol just for chilling out once or twice a week . Be careful with tramadol though it's more addictive than benzos and has horrible withdrawal symptoms.

Excercise ( as has been frequently mentioned here) goal orientated activity,regular sleep patterns can all help.
Avoiding junk food, caffeine, porn, violent tv films. All wholesome but boring ways of feeling better about onesself.

Anxiety is just in our make up, we all have it in one form or other!

Anxiety usually comes along with low blood sugar. The body produces adrenaline in order to raise the blood sugar, and this causes anxiety.

Cutting out carbohydrates - especially sugar - cutting down on things like starchy foods - white bread - junk food - etc. could help.

Are you overweight? Pre-diabetic or diabetic?

By the way, the American Diabetes Association has changed their mind about large amounts of fructose (such as in soda pop) not being dangerous.