Great thread Eliyahu, i could't read all the irst page before posting

Ok my problem is and i know you said this is not a discussion about whether god exists or not but i don't think the question can be avoided.

Ok where do i start mmm. God is an invention by humans instead of humans being an invention of god. The reason i say this is because the earth has been around for billions of years, life started at a fundamental building block level and evolved through simple lifeforms then onto dinosaurs and birds and then mammals. What would the purpose be of this evolving? Where does that fit into gods plans? Were the dinosaurs experiencing life like we do through god etc? I honestly think that god is a nobody or a nothing, nothing doesn't exist either imho so it's all swings and roundabouts.

The torah which is the fundamental building block to all modern mans views on what god is was written by guys who were on the run and had to solidify their people by making up a story that god created everything and chose the jews as his people ahem now come on, think about it logically for a second. I'm not denying that a god may exist but it's definitely not the god who was invented by desert nomads, stemming from an egyptian idea.

We are what we are, we're not god, we are a life form that has evolved over billions of years and will continue to evolve for whatever amount of time human life can exist within this universe. Probably a finite lifetime like the dinosaurs. Our consciousness on the other hand is something different though. I just can't compare us to a god. Nobody knows if a god exists or what it does or look like so how can we compare the two?

Live life, have fun and hopefully we can all meet up on the other side and continue to grow learn and expand

If there is a god then this statement is worthless and silly lol. Peace.

Your argument is a logical one. My experiences with DMT have led me to look at things from a somewhat different perspective however I do believe there is some factual evidence to support my beliefs. For example, based on what I have researched, hebrew mythology predates Egyptain mythology in that Hebrew writing has been found in connection with ancient sumeria wich I believe outdates egypt by some time...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumer


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akkadian_Empire



http://phys.org/news182101034.html

Obviously no way to prove my belief system but I personally think it makes sense. I believe that the story of Adam and Eve is ideed a factual account of how a highly advanced extra terrestial society (YHWH Elohim) created human beings.. The "seven day" period given for creation is actually representative of non-human time and did not really mean one human week..


I believe God is the Father being that created these "Elohim". As far as dinosaurs go I believe that was a project that belonged to the elohim as well. If dinosours and prehistoric life had not have existed we may not have the resourves we currently hav today in terms of fossil fuels.... Earth is a terrarium that took a very long time to prepare for the inhabataion of humans....

As I have mentioned before, the reason I study hebrew and the torah is because DMT entities that spoke hebrew to me suggested I do so. According to them Hebrew is a language that was devised by the creator himself, if you look at the incredibly intricate complexity of this language you will notice that this is a belevable statement...

IMO the Jews are reffered to as the chosen people because they have kept the Torah and Kabbalah in relatively one piece ovr the years philisophically speaking..THe jews have been the stewards of the most pure form of the word of God that exists IMO...

They may not have always understood what it was that they have been holding but they have kept it intact to this very day.....this is why they are considered chosen, obviously they were not given favored treatment by YHVH none the less.


-The other point I would like to make is that I believe it is possible to see God face to face, just as I have seen him. I think people underestimate themselves in this ability.

I respect your perspective.

I think the idea of an alien race creating us is quite believable but it's just a theory. Maybe i'm just an old fashioned (show me some proof) type of person. I do believe anything is possible though. Peace bro

I probably don't come off this way but I like to think that I am a show me the proof type as well........

I strongly believe that if one is able to shut off the thoughts and become fully aware.... then it is possible to see the proof. The trouble comes because I can't prove that your not just using your perception to it's fullest potential..

Only by having the experience can proof be revealed... The proof is revealed on an individual basis however because the will of God is to remain concealed except to those who seek him... by seek him I simply mean allowing yourself to become fully aware so that you can percieve energy directly.

-e

You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but you have given no logical proofs that would back up your positions... and I submit to you that such proofs do not exist. Not believing in G*d or any of the zillion gods we have envisioned is not any more provable than the opposite. For most of you, this comes down to simple gut level feeling or prejudice from your youth.

1) The Torah is not the source for a great many theistic beliefs. The Vedas, The Tao, concepts of the Great Spirit, The Orishas, Kukulkan etc. etc. have absolutely no connection to the 5 books of Moses.

2) The Jews are not merely desert nomads (not that there is anything wrong with that), but rather a family. They are ostensibly the direct descendants of Jacob and his 12 sons. Through Abraham, and the Sumerian ancestors, these people are supposed to be direct descendants of Shem son of Noah, and so on back through time. Their "chosen" status is more often than not a curse.

Their beliefs are not only not remotely Egyptian, but actually kept them separate from the Egyptians during over 400 years of slavery. Babylonian, Akkadian, Sumerian, Egyptian, Greek and Roman religions were all rather similar. Different names and different heroes, but a basic pantheon and history that even dovetails to an extent with Norse, Mayan and Incan religion. The thing about Judaism was Abraham's rejection of the old Sumerian gods and his divine encounter with a much more cosmic deity... who may or may not have been the one god of the Universe... but was certainly of a higher order than the petty and very human seeming deities that most other religions preached.

The billions of years argument (you have used twice) is basically worthless. Who can say that our time measurements are of any use in defining the cosmic. What might seem like a long time to us could be a blink of an eye on another relativity plane. A fruit fly can be born, live, reproduce and die in a matter of 2 hours... how could they use their sense of time to judge us or have any hope of comprehending our lives. In many cases we could even be their originators (we leave some old fruit laying out) and they would never connect those dots.

As for not being able to compare us to a god... it is really easy. To go with the Pantheism idea a bit, how would a red blood cell in your body know if it was part of a being such as yourself. Does it's ignorance make it any less you? You can say it is a "part" of you... but alas, it contains your entire DNA.

It might go through its entire life and never encounter anything but other blood cells and the cardio-vascular system. Interacting with a white blood cell might be a heady experience for it. Tales of other systems existing just beyond the boundaries of its own system might seem like superstition. Talk of a "Brain" somewhere might seem ludicrous even when his path takes him into that very organ.

Now think how much smaller you are to the Universe than a blood cell is to you. Forget even trying to fit yourself into the infinite multiverses overflowing with universes and dimensions of existence.


I won't argue with this.

This.

I believe you can prove a lot of these supposedly esoteric things... to yourself. I don't think that the human race is ready (or needs) some universal proof that we all just accept. The point is to take the journey and prove it to yourself. This is the difference between a mystic and regular Joe.

You might think that everyone who has reported a divine encounter was addled, disturbed or not wound too tightly... but if YOU yourself stood face to face with (take your pick) an alien, an angel, an ascended master, a god, G*d himself... you would be remiss to not consider that you were privy to something rare but real. Especially when you had such encounters more than once and saw that there are vast historical records of people throughout time reporting identical experiences to yours.

Is it proof? No. It is even better than proof... it is direct experience.

PS. It might come to pass in the coming time that governments and agencies that have had proof of alien life and even their connection to the human race and its development will come out of the closet with that info. The proof could very well exist and be kept from the general public due to their perception that such revelations would cause panic and upset the social order. I think it would be a good thing, and the media has been laying the groundwork so well that most people would not be overly surprised if it was revealed tomorrow... but I do think a lot of people would immediately drop out of their current religion. (A good thing, though IMHO)

Without this planet we would cease to exist, so who's really God?

Are humans nothing more than the universal consciouseness expressing itself in human form, as it does in animal and vegetation form as well as the earth, sea, sky, planets, doing so, etc?







I hereby reiterate my previous claim, and say i think EVERYTHING is God.

Hyperspace Fool,

I find your posts to be metaphorically comparable to an illuminating light. It remind me of this verse....

The path of the rightous is like radiant sunlight ever brightening until noon;
The way of the wicked is all darkness, they not not what makes them stumble...

Hyperspace fool said....



They are not obviously linked, however I believe that there are so many similarities between these beliefs that it supports my theory that Adam and Eve were the first humans and also practiced kabbalah as delivered to them by the Angel Raziel.(lit. meanting secret knowledge of God.)

There are not only similarities in many different beliefs throughout the world but there are also many linguistical similarities between ancient languages. For example ancient Hebrew and Navajo Indian languages have many things in common in the way that they sound.

This to me demonstrated that the tower of babble story may have been an actual event where extra terrestials confounded our speach in order to impede our development because we were developing rapidly in a negative direction...


Obviously, just a theory however.


Christian said:



I find this to be true. However I believe it could be said with equal merit that God is everything.

I was just about finished editing a reply to you hyperspace fool on my ipad and the thing kicked me out the nexus and i lost it all lol. I'll do a quick recap as im too lazy to do it all again.

The other religions you mentioned are things ive never heard of as i suspect most other westerners haven't either. So my original statement stands firm to the majority of people.

Comparing a blood cell to human is the same problem i have with the original question. You cannot compare a blood cell to a human the same as you cant compare a god to a human. We might all be the same in one respect like made of the same material but we are totally different in every other aspects of our own lives, god, blood cells and humans.

Or maybe im wrong and we are actually blood cells of gods and we are gods to our bloodcells, and that carries on upwards and downwards for eternity. Time is very relevant imo. Ok thinking this way then yes i agree we are god and god is us but it has nothing to do with old books and religions. Its science that is the true word of god imho. We are god, life is god and understanding science to explain things instead of old hocus pocus is worshipping god, ourselves, whatever.

Peace and respect bro

Thanks Eliyahu

I also find that the similarities are incredible (not just the stories, the linguistics, and the beliefs, but even many of the ruins)... and the ideas that there was some proto-civilization (i.e. Atlantis or Lemuria), that aliens were involved, and/or that ancient cultures were in direct contact with each other are all extremely plausible to me.

The Tower Of Babel idea also holds some merit in my estimation. I don't know if I would cast my vote for Hebrew as the divine and universal pre-Babel language as you seem to believe... but who knows? The fact that we have languages that are older than Hebrew could conceivably be explained, and I suppose it does make a difference. If Hebrew were, in fact, this archetypal language and the language of the angelic beings, then knowing it and using it would be a lot more valuable.

Anyway, nice to discuss and shine a little light on these topics.

Be well.

EliYahu, i agree we need to experience to believe, idont doubt that for a second. I have experienced god both through being a born again christian for about ten years before i realised its all lies. I have also met the white light on dmt after drinking a green liquid that 3 entities gave me while we sat around a xampfire in another realm. Let me explain that
I had vaped 60mg and had a slightly underwhelming semi break through, i thought it was nearing its end decided to get my head down and i must have fell asleep prett quickly because this is where the real breakthru happened. I was suddenly with the 3 entities round the campfire (is the 3 entities the trinity? Maybe who knows)
And when i drank their liquid i was catapulted at a trillion miles an hour headfirstbinto a swirling complex vortex before bursting into the white light, i assume it was god as all it was was love pure extacy and complete understanding. White light is god?

Anyway i respect u all and love u all, and lets continue our search for the truth. My only advice to u is to try and understand the old religions you talk of are er old theres a new religion justbbeing born through psychedelics and maybe you could try and look into that and put ur energies into new breakthru modern religions? Does that make sense? I hope so brothers


Peace, no wonder im DeMenTed haha xx

Eliyahu, i think this reply has highlighted some illogical reasoning of yours: When everything is already God, how then can God be everything?

My point exactly.

This kind of non-religious theism you are describing could very well be a type of Pantheism or Pandeism depending on your view on a transcendental consciousness in addition to the G*d = Universe concept.

Science, or rather the findings of science that appear to be true... are certainly at least one form of the word of G*d IMHO. It is possible that they are the only such word... perhaps. Outside of personal revelation, the laws of nature do seem to be the most obvious examples of structure and systems we have. Self-organizing structure is one of the definitions of intelligence. (The Universe doesn't have to have anthropomorphic intelligence to be considered intelligent and alive.)

I tend to lean towards personal revelations, though, because... well, this might all be a dream. And the laws of nature all seem real enough in my dreams... until I wake up into something that (often as not) is also a dream. Even when I am convinced that I have truly woken up into "consensual" reality, there is no way to prove that... and I have been wrong in this many times before. Sadly, there is no way to disprove the "life is a dream" model or solipsism.

So evidence collected by my scientific brothers and sisters can only ever have so much weight philosophically. My direct, empirical observations must always take precedence... no matter how faulty or unreliable my poor senses may be. After all, I only know of science and the laws of nature via those self-same senses anyway.

Peace & Blessings to you my friend.
HF


Edit: I believe most people have at least heard of the Mayans (Kukulkan was their winged serpent deity), Hinduism (the Vedas are their holy scriptures), Native Americans (Manitou or the Great Spirit is their height of divinity concept), Taoism and the other religious concepts I mentioned. The Orishas are African deities that are also worshiped in Voodoo, Santeria, Condomblé and other such practices.

I could easily make a list many pages long of concepts of divinity that owe nothing to the Torah. And, if anything, the Torah owes much of itself to things like the Enuma Elish and the New Testament has a lot of Zoroastrianism in it.

Cool man we have lots to learn, and long may it continue, peace bro x

Deeper, menaller and tepbeh. Dmt is god maybe. Xx

It's an odd style of illogical reasoning that governs the universe known as a paradox

For example:

I am everything yet I am nothing.
By becoming nothing I make myself accesible to everything
therefore nothing is evertything and everything is nothing at the same time


DeMenTed wrote:



In a sense, more accurately God is the source of this light. It appears as "light" because our conciousness is unable to concieve of it as anything besides light...

Hence the term "Kabbalah" this hebrew word means "to recieve" as in learning to recieve the light of the creator, that is learning to empathetically translate more and more of the light into a perceptual phenomena so it as palatable to our awareness...

The source of the white living light is analogous to a lantern reffered to as Ein sof, meaning the infinite unkowable and is considered to be the source of all that exists in every sense...

EDIT: The led zepplin picture of a hermit holding the lantern exemplifies this kabbalistic idea nicely...

DeMenTed also wrote:



You mentioned you were a born again Christain for ten years? As you pointed out you were lied to. One of the lies that they fed you and that you apparently still believe to this day is that psychedelics were not a part of the "old religions".

Putting my energy into thinking up a new modern religion is a waste of time IMO. All I would be doing is creating new labels for the same things Kabbalah teaches because kabbalah is the blueprint of creation...

The only reason the old religions don't work is because psychedelics have been censored from them and they are now just used to control the masses.

-peace.

Cool elayihu peace

Why is god the light, and not the darkness? Doesn't it make more sense that god is darkness? Darkness is the unknown, it makes us question ourselves, its mysterious and not easy and comfortable like humans tend to want. Also, darkness is always there, omnipresent.... even when you turn on the lights, the darkness is still there, just hidden temporarily by the light, just like silence vs sounds.

(just some random thoughts, keep the thread going my soul brothers and sisters)

Quite a profound truth...I like that...

I don't think god is the light, I didn't really word my prior statment the way I properly should have..

To me The Creator is similar to a person hoding a bright lantern, this lantern is actually the source of the light....

I would most definitly agree with you in that darkness is just as much an aspect of the creator as is the light. Light and dark both have their individual respective metaphoriacal values and neither metaphor is less important than the other one and one cannot exist without the other.

For darkness the metaphors are such as you said in that it represents the forces of the unknown, causes us to question ourselves etc. I for one am a big fan of darkness in that not only do I see it as an insperational source but also I find that only in darkness am I able to see the light in it's full glory. An obvious example of this is how I need to turn the light off when I take ayahuasca so it does not interfere with the delicate details in the CEV's that incur.

So while darkness has it's undeniable purpose and it's own poetic set of metaphors that go along with the idea of it.. The light also has it's set of respective metaphors that are easily associated with it. For example....while the darkness beckons me to explore it with it's intrueging nature, I will still want to have a flashlight with me if I plan to go out and seriously find out what the darkness holds. Also, plantlife needs light to survive but they also need darkness to trigger various hormonal chnges.


IMO Reality manifests itself through the manipulation of dark and light in the same way that a line that is drawn on a blank paper needs not only the page but also the ink to exist...
th original state of the universe is comparable to dregs of ink clinging to the point of a pen in wich there existed only the anticipation of creative potential but with no substance.

When god said "let there be light" it is interpreted to mean that this primordial ethereal light already existed prior to the creation of the world and that YHWH Elohim did not "create" the light but was manipulating a force that was already in existence, namely ethereal light...


In the Hebrew language light is the word AWR. The word Ether in Hebrew is AWIR. IMO when the Torah refers to "the light" as in "let there be light" it does not mean mere sunlight but is acutally refering a living ethereal light, that is to say.... the light that illuminates even where there is no light...