http://www.nytimes.com/r...a-death.html?_r=2&hp

Article has no info on how and why he died.

But hiding the body by the shaman sounds really really bad.......

Dodgy stuff! I wonder how he died.

Oh my god, poor kid. Only 18 years old. The article said the retreat was Shimbre, I assume this is the same center Chimbre? I just find it difficult to swallow that people who base there work around helping and healing would just throw this kid in the bushes somewhere hoping that no one would find out. I sort of held the idea that this center must be a very good place, the figures I've seen speak about it on documentaries seem so sincere. I guess it just goes to show even though many know the path, few will walk it when it comes down to the true test of life. My thoughts and prayers go out to the family of this boy, to the this man who is facing the consequence, as well as those involved in this center. It just blows my mind that someone could do this poor kid that way. Very sad.

Edit

This is the same "Chimbre" from the documentary stepping into the fire. They have removed there facebook page and there official website is all but bare.

I can't seem to find so much as a statement from anyone at the center, though I wish I could hear there view.

They definitely need to speak up, this is a damn shame.

How horrible. Kind of puts that movie about the guy and his retreat in a distinctly different light.

If I recall correctly, they use a lot of san pedro in their brews as an admixture.

I have never heard of a death involving strictly Ayahuasca, this may be a first, I can't help but question what was in the brew. As Art Van said, perhaps some San Pedro was added and the mixture did not agree with the boy. I feel a bit foolish for being so excited about the documentary stepping into the fire. Perhaps we westerners who sometimes feel we would be better off drinking Aya with guidance of a shaman in Peru are a bit mistaken.

I just keep googling, hoping to find some sort of explanation, an apology. However just the opposite these guys seem to be sweeping there tracks. It is just so sad.

damn this is really sad, and kind of scary. I would really just like to hear what the shaman has to say about it, his take on what happened.

This is tragic.

A few questions run through my mind.

1) Was it a normal brew?
2) Did this kid divulge all the medications he was one? Did he fast.
3) Is it possible that some people with very low thresholds to aya can actually be poisoned from it?

Jus tragic.

BTW I have never felt that I would be safe in the jungle with a shaman than at home with my wife.

yes this was chimbre..mancoluto is the shaman there and there has been a large debate about this guy for some time in the community..most of it not good..

You have to remember though, and this is a big factor to remember here..alot of strung out drug addicts go to chimbre. I think the guy sort of advertized ayahuasca and chimbre as a way for addicts to detox..so there is that factor there..on top of the factor that many people in general who are very sick with aids, cancer etc end up in peru seeking healing with ayahuasca..of course there are just as many who dont go for those reasons so we cannot say that it is that..but the deaths like this at centers are extremely few and far between and I have to wonder how many of them were just people sooo sick already that it was just their time, or maybe were drug addicts trying to detox and maybe took some heroin or cocaine the morning after while still heavy harmala'd and weekend from the diet and withdrawls etc..you just never know and I dont trust the media to tell us that part.

Either way the fact that he hid the body is totally fraked up and I was on the fence abotu what to think of this guy and this has changed that for sure..

BTW art, I have not heart of san pedro being used as an admixture there..I know they use ayahuasca and san pedro both but I have not heard they combine the 2. I dont really know though.

Not that speculating helps, but deaths like this have occurred before because of Nicotine.

my first thought was "datura/brugmansia" but that would most likely mean this wasnt the first time.

my second thought was this kid picked up some of the cheap, abundant, and potent coke from one of the innumerable people in peru and unwittingly combined it with aya either before/during/after

i hope that this kid had some serious medical issues and just died as a result of fatigue and being overwhelmed by the experience. there would be no blame for this, but it isnt ground for hiding a body...

its one thing to have someone die and report it, thats honorable. its totally wrong to first say he went missing then say well he died and burried him :/

i never really thought mancoluto was a holy man as many people who represent entheogens seem to be (imo). his comments on film are snide and he suggests things like aliens living on uranus, which is made of gas...

something i never understood was how could someone who regularly participates with purgative medicines that require fasting maintain such a large belly as mancoluto. i saw a picture of him eating once, it looked like hed fight right in with the fatest of westerners while dining

the situation is tragic for the kids family, for chimbre, and for entheogens. id like to see this solved, there seems to be very little media/information available

There have been a few fatalities due to drinking ayahuasca in the past. From my understanding after speaking to a woman who went to Iquitos for a retreat and ended up being rushed to the hospital flat lined but was revived. The reason for her NDE was anaphalatic shock from one or all of the plant medicines consumed. This can happen with nearly anything introduced to the body that a person can have a severe allergy to. So in many of these cases in which the aya was brewed properly severe allergic reaction is usually the cause of death. The admixture of datura can also be fatal if not carefully prepared. I would never drink aya made with datura...not in a million years.

As far as this case goes it is more than disturbing, its an outrage. To ditch the mans body like a piece of meat is inexcusable and disgusting. Shame on the people involved. There are too many bullshit artists out there claiming to be shamans.

I am sad that this happened, especially about the deceit on the part of one shaman.


I've read a lot of books on shamanism. Who here hasn't? Well, doesn't the shaman frequently warn you to be cautious/true of heart/whatever and warn that the plant spirit might choose to kill you...or warn you that sometimes people end up staying in the spirit world, or that it is tempting to stay in that world, or that evil spirits can potentially 'get you' in the other world.

Sure, this was posted in the CEL for a reason, we generally do not want ayahuasca to get a bad rep like this. But powerful entheogens do have potential dangers. We've all had trips that we thought we would never come back from. I'd say that such types of fatality are rare in the extreme...but theoretically possible.

The beginning of the end for grey market Aya in the USA and Europe?

Found a bit more info in this

This is very sad news..


on this page there is info from those who worked with him. Most of its 2+ years old but its relevant. Read the second post on that page http://forums.ayahuasca....;hilit=mancoluto#p200100

i was pretty wierded out by the guy back when watching "into the fire". but i never expected anything like this

This is sad. My sympathies & respect to everyone who is or has suffered due to this.

That said...

I am always amazed that stuff like this doesn't happen more often. (The dying part... but also to a lesser extent the covering it up.)

To be honest, heavy doses of MAOIs can turn a very long list of things deadly. Things that are normally somewhat toxic, but dealable... things that are totally safe and relatively healthy even.

While everyone who gives out the brew should be super diligent about making the dangers clear, they are not always even aware of all the combinations that can result in problems. I have met ayahuasceros that think of uncomfortable physical issues during a journey as par for the course. As others have mentioned, people regularly put dubious admixture plants into brews. Just because something works for you, and gives your journey an extra bang... does NOT mean that it is something that should be given to seekers or noobs as a matter of course.

There are substances that I have a high tolerance for and a fond affinity to that I might combine with controlled amounts of harmalas to good effect, but I absolutely don't recommend to anyone else... even if they could handle it.

I think the biggest dangers tend to be people who have come down from the brew and feel normal, but are still heavily inhibited in the MAO department. This is a period of time that can last many hours, and even though I know better... I have often been tempted to drink a coffee, eat something extremely spicy, or consume a drug that would be a no-no.

Having my heart race for an hour after accidentally drinking a few sips of wild Hawaiian coffee well after base-lining drove this point viscerally home for me. G*d help those who make that mistake with smoking crack or crank.

With the amount of people who take psych meds so ridiculously high... I see a serious recipe for disaster that few talk about. I have spoken before about a young woman who was on anti-psychotic and anti-depressive meds who 3 times denied having taken anything she shouldn't in a medicine circle because she was mortified that people would know she was crazy. It was only my intuition and getting in her face privately that made sure she wasn't literally mortified.



Sorry for the ramble. This is very sad.

This is sad news, but surely one should be made to sign a legal document stating that they are clean from dangerous substances before attending a ceremony, for the protection of all?

I suppose it's classed as adventure tourism, and it does have it's risks especially for people who may already have weak bodies because of years of substance abuse, etc. So drinking lots of strong Aya especially with strong admixtures may be trouble in waiting.

Whatever, trying to hide the body like this was despickable, and i wonder what's gonna happen at Chimbre now?

As we all know, there are numerous reasons in which the death could have occured. The hiding of the body is the thing that will cause alarm in this story. This will make the story stand out more, and give a poorer picture of Ayahuasca.

This is a damn shame, that the actions of this man could have more of a damning effect than the death itself, which is sad in its own right. Hopefully an autopsy will shed some light on the situation, and hopefully this mans actions will not impact the entheogenic world too greatly.

Peace

Macre

Of course, you're right Macre.

It seems that Chimbre have gone against their promise of ensuring they provided a duty of care as they seem to state on their website. For example giving people such powerful medicine, and then leaving them unsupervised in the jungle is a problem waiting to occur. They came to the centre because they wanted some help, and were left unsupervised where if anything happened to them they would not be able to recieve help at the right time. Sounds very slapdash for a seemingly professional organisation.

--Set and setting was ignored. Some may even say that this also left the participants in a danger of being attacked out of a protective circle, if ever there was one. Whatever, when such large sums of money are paid you expect some professionalism and adherence to their stated policy.


But what really is doing the most damage is the fact that the Shaman apparently buried the body and lied about the death.

I can't help but wonder if it was the first person the "shaman" did that to.