I am going to be doing an extraction soon on some rue, but dont know exactly how much of the alks I should take to achieve MAO Inhibition. Any info would be great, thanks!

I recommend just taking a high dose of them by themselves the first time -without any dmt or dmt containing plant- in order to get a feel for that psychedelic space by itself (which is VERY interesting even without dmt)..For that i'd start with around 200mg..you can always take more and/or smoke some dmt to get where you want to from there

for pharma..it depends what you're aiming for

because the dosage can vary so much from person to person i'd start with around 150-200mg harmalas and 30-40mg dmt. For some like myself, this is a high dose. for others, not at all. It can take a while to get the hang of dosing pharma, since there can be misfires

Speaking of pharma experiences...

This morning I took 250mgs rue-hcl and 45mgs spice an hour later.
90 minutes after that I felt as bad as I've felt in a LONG time. Full body shivers. Brain phasing in and out. Visionary space was present, but the body load and mind effects were such that the only thing I could do was keep going to my center to ride out the storm. This was early this morning and I ended up going back up to bed to lay with my wife to have someone with me. I never did puke, but I was seriously knocked off kilter hard and quite nauseated for a few hours.

WTF happened? Who knows. The last few weeks have been pretty stressful at work... I feel 100 times better now...a good 8 hours later. But man this dose was VERY uncomfortable for me. I think it was to high of a rue dose personally as that much DMT is less than some people vaporize.

Anyway, yeah pharma can be a strange beast indeed.

---

Back to Gone-and-Back's original post. Yeah man try 250 mgs of haramals on their own first, but then honestly I'd try 150 and raise you DMT amount to a comfortable level from there.

I have used harmalas on their own before, just not an extract. I have always taken straight rue in caps. I have been on the edge of that space, and know somewhat how it is. Im more interested in the mix with mushrooms though then dmt, much more predictable and its all I have access too at this point in the year.

Then I would start with half your normal dose of shrooms.

Then I'd add in haramals in 25mg incrments until you find a comfortable dose.


Peace

I've noticed that dosing in the morning is especially intense, probably because the stomache is more empty. But yea that dose would absolutely floor me for a lonngg time. One of the roughest trips i've had with pharma was from only 160mg rue alks and 30mg dmt

Yeah man. I was floored..and caught off guard because honestly I was expecting a light to moderate dose at best. My wife was actually pretty worried about me for awhile...and then we switched roles and I tried to calm her...which ironically help me start feeling better.

She did however think I was plum cray when I woke up today and did it again...sorta. 100mgs rue and 4 grams chali. This time was a nice relaxing puke session followed by a nice light DMT headspace. No hyperspace, but an overall good solid cleansing feeling.

I am inclined to just do traditional aya from now on. I can tolerate the purge..in fact when the purge finally comes it's actually welcomed because you are tired of the pressure building in the stomach. Then you purge..then you feel awesome and the voyage can really begin.

Peace

yeah 250mg of rue alks is a lot, for me anyway. Your experience sounds very very familiar to me in relation to high dose harmalas. I think this is likely what real jungle ayahuasca feels like..this might be why drinking doses like that a currandero might be useful. When you get really good doses of harmalas like that the experience can be very different with spirits all around you manifesting in the room. They can look like real people and animals etc and the nausea at the same time can be so bad that it is painful to even endure it..and then the vomiting comes. I have not dosed like that for months now..with good reason!

Believe or not, my worst and most uncomfortable experiences, complete with shaking, headaches, horrible nausea and vomiting, unable to feel comfortable for more than a few seconds etc were with caapi. Caapi can and does do this same thing IME at larger doses..it just seems easier to get there with rue due to its consistant strength..caapi seems to varry much more. I have had this experience with rue as well but never quite to the extent that I have with caapi on 2 occasions. I once had this happen with caapi(and not muricata this was B.caapi) and it lasted the entire night and I still felt sick and uncomfortable the next day.

When you reach this level with harmalas, for me anyway it tends to linger for up to a few days I find also..which can be nice but it can also be a pain if you still get mild transient nausea like a day later.

Yes be very careful with your first pharma dose.
I did 250mg's of caapi extracted harmalas and 85mg's of DMT my fist time and that was a year ago. I can say I'm still fully recovering and integrating that trip. That was way too much. I should have gone with 150mg's of harmalas and maybe 50-60mg's of DMT to start with.

Yeah man, I recently extracted rue harmalas from Gibrans tek, took 200mg in a shot of grapefruit juice the other night. There was definite inhibition but not much other noticeable effect.

Soo lastnight me and my girl both dosed 250mg the same way and just layed out on my bed with some ambient music. After about an hour not much was happening, so I thought "hmm, lets do a 50mg booster a piece"........big mistake haha

Within a half hour after taking the booster we were laying on my bed and my girl sticks up her hand and I saw this beam of light come off her hand! She immediately says "di you see that!!?" I laughed and was like "yeah i saw that beam of light come off your hand!"

I then proceeded to look at her face while layin next to me and her face looked very "whispy"...tracer like.....actually heavyyy tracers. After that I got incredibly naseous. If I closed my eyes I was GONE and just spinning....felt like I was tumbling end over end!

Long story short..it lasted for 5-6 hours....it felt like forever though. Have never been that sick from harmalas ever. Hands were shaking uncontrollably. After about 5 hours had passed I decided to get up and walk to the bathroom....haha....yeah. Awash with tracers and I almost fell over in the hallway several times. I could barely stand in front of the toilet without falling over haha.

Slept amazing though....an extremely lucid and peaceful sleep. Rues nuts..

I'm always blown away by the effects that people report from doses that (to me) seem rather small. More and more I'm realizing that I'm a complete outlier with regards to my required doses. I have given my gf 200mg of harmalas extracted from rue on a regular basis for a month or two to help with PTSI, to wonderful effect. The one time I bumped her up to 225mg, she said it was a bit much and got some nausea from it, but otherwise, there were nothing but positive effects according to her.

For me, 200mgs or less is essentially a subconscious dose. It will have mental effects and soothes/relaxes me without any truly noticeable acute effects. From 250-300mg I will feel some very minor "floating" and "stoning" effects, not all that unlike effects from certain strains of cannabis, however, there is no mental fog. In addition, I usually have a general sense of well-being/comfort and feel fairly relaxed, perhaps even slightly sedated.

Between 300-400mg, depending on what I've eaten, if I've exercised and perhaps other factors of that day, I find that the aforementioned effects are enhanced significantly and a level of physical drunkenness begins to set in. Nausea sets in somewhere between 350-400mg, but is barely noticeable and comes in waves, if at all.

From 400-450mg, nausea is common although not overwhelming. Any purging is self-induced and tends to yield little to nothing (depending on what I've eaten, obviously...but the reflex does not feel very "deep" ). I have tracers and undeniable physical drunkenness along with yawning, difficulty reading or focusing on fine motor tasks but am overall functional and have gone out and done manual labor and other activities at this dose.

500-700mg ????

I have dosed myself in the 700-900mg range perhaps 3-4 times, mostly owing to my own forgetfulness when taking pre-measured capsules or dosing before getting a couple hours of sleep and then dosing again after waking up. These experiences have been full blown psychedelic experiences with subtle, yet full visual-field tracers/visuals, near-complete lack of fine motor control, incredibly diminished muscle coordination, full-on repeated purging (on one occasion from both ends), continual yawning, strong auditory hallucinations, dizziness, cramps and the most serene feelings of bliss, joy and well-being once it was all over, in at least 2 cases lasting several days (with one case lasting over a week). I do not recommend or advise taking these doses and cannot imagine what ridiculousness would ensue if any admixture was taken. In reading some of the older ethnobotanical literature that claims that harmalas are not psychedelic by themselves, I can only assume that the researchers in question did not take high enough doses to experience the acute effects that can be induced.

Snozz, I get that drunken off balance feeling between 250 and 300. But I have never actually gotten nauseated from haramals alone...though 300mgs has been my upper dose thus far.

Oral DMT is a hard beast to tame to say the least!

I think what's happening here is that after X amount of time the alkaloids are simply still sitting around in your stomach. It's at this point that you think "hmm, been a while and I feel absolutely nothing, guess I should just redose".

X amount of time and then a bit, depending on what's in your stomach, everything is transferred to the small intestine. This triggers a very rapid cascade of absorption and the good stuff starts rushing through the blood-brain barrier. You will feel this with ayahuasca as a sensation of intense heat localised in your abdomen that spreads through your veins; the higher the dose the hotter the heat. And consequently here is where you get a nice little surprise as the alkaloids all hit you at once. Then to add injury to injury, your booster dose hits relatively soon after as your stomach has now emptied.

It pays to remain aware of this effect. Oral DMT on an empty stomach can hit as hard and fast as smoked DMT; in fact harder depending on the dose difference. The same effect applies to all psychoactives. Eat a big meal and you might not even get drunk off a bottle of spirits. But down three beers one after the other on an empty stomach and you'll get drunk fast.

I've had good success with 200mgs pure syrian rue harmalas orally waiting 2 hours then small amount of dmt smoke. Effects still strong 45 min later.

At 200 mgr rue I get first tracers and also some tiny light flashes (or it seems that way) that occur when I change view direction. Some impact on perception but actually quite non psychedelically. Good base for adding the mimo tea.

Anyone knows when maoi really set in? I've read about 1.5 mgr/kg weight, so for 70 kg person its like 105 mgr. I think that's a bit low, and suggest 2 mg/kg body weight. What you think?

Those tiny little light flashes are so interesting. Usually our of the corner of my eye I'll see them then I go to turn and then disappear and put some sort of spin on my perception in those moments right after.

snozz you are a mutant! :] 700-900mg would probably have me bed-ridden for days 0.0

200mg is a full on psychedelic dose for me and i can't walk well at all on it. i've purged on this amount a few times as well. If i lay down in the dark on that i'll have visions and probably obe's if i relax into it enough. the thoughts un-braiding into separate idea complexes existing simultaneously is also cool, its like parallel processing or something..but as with the visions, once you notice it you can tend to snap out of it. Its interesting how these idea complexes can begin to move from being processed on a 'thought' level to being processed more visually. it can just seamlessly switch over and sometimes you don't notice until you snap out of it! like you can literally see what you're imagining. on a high enough dose where nausea/purging is inevitable this just seems to start happening constantly, but it can take a bit of relaxation for it to move more fully into the visual spectrum to

One funny thing that also often happens on harmala-only doses with me is that i go right into lucid dreams sometimes if i end up falling fully asleep, only in these dreams its like i've taken a TON of pharma or ayahuasca with dmt, and not just harmalas by themselves..and the dreamspace is constantly re-arranging itself. so i can't do much but lay down lol

Rue is like a rollercoaster, you drop too big a dose and it's like looking down a long way towards the ground thinking "oh sheeet, I've done it this time".

and its at this dizzying point that you know you have done the correct amount

Come to think of it, that's very damn true ... Why does rue go from "meh" to "can't move but puking out internal organs anyway" if you just add like 1g?

Also, is there a way to inhibit the dizziness & motion sensitivity while preserving the super-senses? I'm sure there must be quite a few non-spicy herbs that synergise with rue.