hey all!

im sure others are wondering what the difference between tek's is in terms of: yields, reagents, time, and difficulty

so im performing side by side extractions on 100 grams pedro powder

the different approaches ill use are:

1. d-limo dry tek
in this process ill mix cacti powder with 25 g NaOH and add minimal water, stirr thoroughly then dehdrate entirely. this basic cacti substrate will be powdered and pulled with d-limo during 15 minute stirring pulls

2. d-limo base paste
in this process ill mix cacti powder with 25 g NaOH and add minimal water, stirr thoroughly and cover with d-limo, sitrring the basic paste through the dlimo continually for 15 minutes

3. traditional a/b
in this process ill make an acidic tea 3x, filter, decant, bassify. pull with d-limo 4x with each pull an hour, the last being a heated pull

4. alcohol extraction
in this process ill cover the cacti powder with 500 ml 151 rum and agitate occasionally for 24 hours, 3 pulls will be completed, the last will be a heated pull

5. water extraction
in this process ill make and acidic tea 3x, filter, decant, and evaporate to a resin


extraction types 1-3 will be repeated with xylene for comparative results, whichever technique saturates the nps most effectively will be repeated for (1) dlimo + fasipa and (2) xylene + fasa

*all saltings will be done with 1.5-2% hcl in water, with 3x50ml saltings per pull*

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please feel free to suggest more methods to compare with

Awesome, this will be REALLY appreciated

If you are willing to do the work, comparing two different salting methods would be great too, for example FASA (or FASI) vs HCl

Great idea, mew. Looking forward to the results!

i intend to first see the most effective means of saturating the nps (either xylene or d-limo) and based upon the hcl salting yields ill try fasa for xylene or fasipa for dlimo

this whole experiment will only use 900 g cacti powder, a minimal investment!

Awsome man this will be very useful info cant wait for the results to be posted. Good luck you've got your work cut out for you.

This is AWESOME, Mew! Bring on the data! Thank you.

-information about extraction method 2-


the best consistency for method 2 is "whippable" so it can be spread to increase surface area

the best container is one with a large flat bottom and considerable sides to reduce splashing/hold dlimo

mew spread it evenly over the dish and stirred/made lines over the entire substrate (while submerged in nps) 10 minutes of mixing over 30 minutes, 5 times

100 g cacti powder was mostly exhuasted by 4 pulls of 250 ml dlimo, a 5th was done for data's sake

out of the 1250 ml used 1200 was retrieved, there was minor splashing and the last few drops on the substrate.
to get what wouldnt immediately pour off out, mew found that by rolling your cacti sludge around it forms a glob and releases more solvent, as does rolling it into a glob and letting it settle flat

mew went a bit overboard with the salting and used a total 500 ml total of ph 2 solution (after nps contact)
the solution is oddly greenish, the nps has returned to its lighter yellowness from the saturated green it was prior to salting

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extraction method 1 information.

mew spent about 5 hours dehydrating/ mixing/ breaking up another 100 g cacti powder bassified with minimal liquid to try to make an anhydrous substrate from which to extract upon, right now its pebble sized chunks and needs more dehydration before it can be repowdered, mew suspects a coffee grinder will be most useful

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important to note that 69ron over titrates his salting solution a ton, his solution was measured at a ph of 1 before nps contact, mew diluted this to a ph of 5-6 then salted, the resulting salt was remeasured at a ph of 9 and didnt separate easily from the nps.

***ignorantly more acid was added (i thought that a ph 9 solution wouldnt be sufficient enough to have salted mesc, i theorized i had some basic contamintion driving my ph up, however considering mesc is basic, mew learned a lesson he should have a long time ago)
with the addition of the acid (ph 2 total salt solution) before and after contact with nps. the salt solution separated easily

info on extraction method 2's improper salting

the 550 ml solution was filtered through a paper towel to remove excess d-limo
it was evaporated for 7 hours, after 5 hours nothing more evaporated for some reason (in a dehydrator) so it was moved to a hot plate where it steamed dry in a matter of minutes leaving a black n brown dish of sparkles

it was scraped up into a test tube and washed 4x with 10-15 ml each time (dry acetone)
the acetone was saved and evaporated and stored with other old acetone washes, when the vessel is full ill wash all the acetone washed tar with more acetone and retrieve all lost alkaloids

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an experiment that developed as a result of my using too much acid

ill compare the results of pulling with a ph of 2 vs a ph of 6, the ph of 2 yielded a dark salt that was couldnt be cleaned past brown with several acetone washes. maybe with less acid there will be a lighter color product. also they will be bioassayed (same dose) and far enough apart tolerance plays no role so we can see the potency difference

the salt from the ph 2 pull dosent entirely dissolve in water either

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extraction method 2 will be repeated after washing the solvent due to my improper technique

You can discard whatever doesnt dissolve in water, so you re-a/b it.. The weight will diminish of course but it will be much cleaner.

more info on the improper salting situation

i scrapped what i could up by my blade was not great so i decided to dissolve it all into water and store the liquid rather than lose product to poor scraping skills

i noticed that not all of it dissolved, there were little black insoluables suspended/settling in the solution


mew will bring the salt saturated water to a boil to hopefully dissolve all that is mesc and then let cool, whatever isnt dissolved when its cold will be discarded, the result will be posted soon

is dissolving in water then separating insoluables what you consider an a/b?

Man a good 3-4 pulls with 25ml 1% hcl solution should be more than enough to pull the mesc from 100g portion of powder in salting .

What a/b means is to redissolve product in acidic water, basify, pull with np, and pull that into acidic water, but that seems abit overkill. Could try dissolving and mashing in slightly acidic water, filtering out any solids, and evaportaing again.

isnt mesc hcl water soluable anyway, so shouldnt it dissolve with acidification

using vinegar to acidify, when the product is evaporated and exposed to moderate heat the vinegar would break down leaving just the more solid hcl

what would the ph be of a 1% solution?
to make a 1% out of 33% id dilute it by 33 times its volume, interestingly enough 69 ron calls for a 15x dilution, a bit over 2%, could the ph of 1%-2% really be a difference of 4-5 ph?

will gauge with ph papers to see

I like to add a couple drops of acid to the water when redissolving an alk salt just for safe measure to break up the gunk better and ensure yeild doesnt suffer as much, makes me feel better .

Using vinegar to re-acidify and then evaporating might just give you a bigger mess since vinegar has contams in it

a ph of 5-6 hcl solution would work?

how long might i mix 25 ml of this 1% salt solution through the dlimo? dosent it literally have to touch all areas of the dlimo to salt it? and since the dlimo is over a liter my 25 ml seems so small? but im not a trained chemist, this is how i learn


thank you nexus for teaching me the ways of the mescaline hero

Ya 5-6 would be fine for redissolving the salt for sure.

Swim uses 25 ml with 900-950 ml d-limo, so you get an idea. Basically the water molecules just have to be well dispersed and come in contact with the d-limo for about 10 mins. 1250 ml d-limo is probably worthy of 35-40ml 1% hcl pulls.

to break that down to its ratio of salt to nps...

you use 1/10the the nps volume to salt (ph 5-6 or 1%)
each salt is 1/40th the nps volume, 4 salts = 1/10th

for each liter of nps, 4x25 ml salts




onto acetate... since i have 5% acetic acid, id dilute it 5x to get it to 1% that way my salting solution would be 1/5 as contaminated (typically i salt with straight vinegar and way too much by your suggestions) maybe the acetate would be much nicer in a more conservative approach

using fasw or tasw might i try the same salting approach as the hcl and above theorized acetic saltings, ph 1 + 1/10th nps volume over 4 salts... no real difference other than just something different, might like to try it anyway if it sounds... well sound

what about bassifying your crude extract, lets say you botched something like i did and want to get fumarate, i wonder if bassifying the crude salt -> dehydrating freebase paste -> pulling with acetone -> filter/decant -> mix with fasa. would this precipitate mescaline fumarates like it does dmt fumarates? if so theres no need for me to worry about cleaning my dlimo of acetone/ipa

The 1% hcl soln isnt pH 5-6, more like pH 2-3.

Acetic acid is a weaker acid than hcl and it has a much larger molar mass thus you would likely need more than 1% soln, probably 4-5%.

so what do i want, ph 2-3 (1%) or 5-6 (?%)

could you explain more about the reason for 4-5% acetic acid so i can extrapolate that info and apply it to fumaric acid aswell, this is the type of info im looking for