I just wanted to add a quick viewpoint from the poet Rumi. His belief was that claiming oneself to be God is actually the greatest act of humility one can achieve. In acknowledging a God separate from yourself you create two different entities, whereas acknowledging yourself as God is to say that there is no thing that is not God and any illusion of your "self" is simply that - an illusion.

From one of his poems:

Don't think that saying 'I am God' is proclaiming one's greatness.
It is actually total humility.
Someone who says, 'I am the servant of God' infers two - God and himself - whereas someone who says, 'I am God' negates himself.
He relinquishes his own existence.
'I am God' means "I don't exist."
Everything is God. Only God exists. I am nothing.

Well said, my good Sir! I admire your obvious poetic flair. You are most certainly a Sufi and I dig your style of expression.

But seriously, this thread shows an amazing synchronicity to a parallel discussion and so, blows my mind. It nearly identically mirrors a discussion on another site. I could cut n' paste my reply over there... but instead, I'd like to treat this thread as it were a new equation presented to me. I'll try not to bore you all. Perhaps I will mention some examples from very advanced human beings and their perennial wisdom.

I believe that when Yeshua (Jesus) said, "I and my Father are One." He pretty much laid it all out on the line. It's essentially the same as saying, "I am God." I believe that he used the parent-child analogy to show his deep respect for the Creator. Plus, he was speaking before very tribal/nomadic peoples and couldn't really get into esoteric knowledge with the masses. He often said that he would explain his parables to his inner circle, the twelve disciples. But as a conceptual analogy, parents create children and so, we are children of the eternal Spirit... for we are children of Light, children of the Omniverse. Some say we are thoughts emanating from the Godhead, extensions of the Unified Field of Energy.

Sri Ramakrishna Paramahansa also felt that he was a child of the Infinite Being. He worshiped the Mother Kali. His devotion propelled him into states of Nirvikapla Samadhi and further, into fully bloomed Sahaja Samadhi, which dissolved any separation between he and the source of his sole devotion. He lost himself in the shift accompanying his marathon meditations. He dramatically transformed from a fanatical worshiper, steadfastly worshiping an external Supreme Deity (existing upon a Heavenly plane, light years beyond this earthly garden) to having his entire reality shattered by the force of his sudden awakening. He merged within his chosen guise for the Indivisible Quintessence, Kali, who was suddenly alive and present in all he perceived. Much as a psychedelic journey, he re-discovered himself in a far more expanded and complexly interwoven model or reality. His brain had undergone full bloom and hyper-activity.

He was so deeply immersed within his spiritual love for the Mother, that he became fused with the source of his devotion. He found the source of creation within himself. It was as if he woke up and realized in wonder, that he himself was God all along, suddenly aware of being God. All at once he morphed into the very embodiment of Advaita Vedanta, the path of Jnana Yoga, despite having been a Bhakti for most of his life. From that day on, he was half in his material body and from all eye witness accounts, living the other portion of himself, supraconsciously rocketing through layers and still subtler layers of hyper-reality... melting fully into the eternal current. Much of his later life was spent in Nirvikapla Samadhi and he was absorbed in bliss much of the time.

Henceforth, he was known for his belief that the Ultimate Reality was wholly indivisible and alive in everything existent, on every level/plane/dimension and in every atom, electron and quark. Ergo, the transcendental Heavenly Deity is alive and well within the fiery bowels of Hell. Duality is an ingenious illusion.

The Divine emanates myriad expressions, manifesting our universe in all of it's multiplicity. This force is Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omnipotent (as our mystical brother Hyperspace Fool so poignantly mentioned before). So, if God is everywhere, within everything, inside of us and beyond any limitation... both, with form and simultaneously insubstancil, free in it's very formlessness. All is One (yatta, yatta, yatta...).

Another equally wise and effulgent Indian Master, Sri Ramana Maharshi, spoke of God in terms of being "The Self". He also said the ego was assuredly unreal. His unique approach to self-inquiry revolved around the question, "Who am I?" thus the idea that self is not the body, persona or mind. "Neti, neti, neti..." For the Maharshi, Higher Self alone is eternal and the only true reality.

Within Indian metaphysics, it is common to proclaim, "Atman is Brahman." Plain and simple, the human soul is NOT a separate consciousness from the Supreme consciousness, they are One. It has often been alluded to that God is the very center of consciousness-awareness, the most indwelling observer, peeking at the universe through our mortal eyes. I feel this is most accurate, for when my ego-self has been suspended by the force of the Divine Light, I feel this intense merging taking place. I fuse within a surging current of awareness that is more than myself, it is wholly Sacred.

We can be naught but God Stuff, after all. I believe that God isn't a Zeus-like Deity above us all. God is what we are. We are inseparable from the Indivisible Quintessence. We are Gods. Therefore, if all is Divine. I/you/we are in fact all ideas within the Godhead. When we realize that everything and everyone is spiritual energy, we need to cross into a new paradigm. The old one is basically spent. God is the whole of the Unified Field of Being. We are included in this totality and rightfully described as God incarnate. As long as we don't feel we alone are God and everthing else is our domain, we are on the right track and not delusional or ego-maniacal.

Excellent contributions flickedbic & AllIsDistraction...

And, of course, a supernal effulgence of hypertruth from my dear friend Rising Spirit.

Namaste Aloha Shalom

This mornings thought is that GOD only exists because humans have invented such a notion.

Humans actually exist because of words, just like animals, grass, fish. Without names we are all one, just different. In the same way every moment we exist we are different, even though we constantly try and fool ourselves into believing we are the same or stable: we are infact "one", or interconnected, and the idea of seperation is really an illusion of the ego, which exists thanks to "maintainance".

I believe that life is constantly changing according to the natural flow of life. all "living" creatures with "intelligence" can manipulate this natural flow to suit their selfish needs.

So, if that's what being a god means to some then we are gods. However i don't think it's true and like i believe, we are only gods because of words- which create seperation. Really we are one, and this whole planet, cosmos, etc, and all that is, is god. We are as holy as a drop of water, a cats hair, a pile of dung.... because everything that exists is interconnected and part of life which exists moment to moment in a natural flow. Everything is sacred.

If this doesn't sound convincing think of the world that humans created for themselves, like the first "landowners" who called land theirs..that led to the creation of the system and jobs. Now that same system is ruining the same planet it depends on. How can we be gods if we created a system that is negative to our planet?, that is fuelled by confusion, dodgy culture, governments, and ultimately ruled by those who are in control of the land, etc, etc

So I want to start off by saying I realize there are many who have the idea of "I am God" in the proper perspective. The thing is I have certainly noticed there are also many who put a very Egoistic spin on the Idea that Humans are Gods. I understand it can be a fine line. I don't think there is anything wrong with the Idea of knowing we are God.

I see God like a cake that has been cut into pieces. Although the cake is in however many pieces it is still also a whole cake. The one is the all.

I also don't think there is anything wrong with humans being independent and achieving spiritual progression on their own, HOWEVER.....to take the stance that there is something WRONG with acquiring or wanting assistance from divine entities in order to achieve fuller states of awareness is in my opinion flawed. I believe that human beings are beings that have been designed specifically for symbiotic interaction with "other types" and "other frequencies" of life such as non-organic entities.

To want to go it alone and be your own god without any help from any other wiser entities is sort of a isolationistic perspective and a not very productive one at that.


Corpus collosum wrote:




Thank you for replying to this thread, I believe that this is the common conception and the original reasoning behind the translation of the plural Elohim into a singular word "God".

Further analysis of passages in Genesis reveal more evidence that YHWH Elohim is a not a singular phenomena. To site an example there is this passage from Genesis that if taken in the context of a singular God it would imply that God was just talking to himself. Would an omnipotent-all knowing creator being have a practical need to carry on monologues with itself? I doubt it.

To me the folowing verse from Genesis makes more sense from the standpoint of YHWH elohim being a "group" not a singularity:



In my personal opinion meaningful and descriptive phrases such as Elohim, Abba, Adoni and YHWH that are all titles that represent different aspects of divinity have been purposely omitted from the bible in order to perpetuate general confusion on the issue.


If you will notice in the above verse from Genesis as well as all through the bible.... the rich descriptive term YHWH Elohim has been omitted and replaced with the vague, abstract and meaningless redundancy "the Lord God".

---

To shed further light on why I feel the way I do about this issue I will share the experiences that I had which led me to formulate this particular belief system...

I have under the influence of DMT and Ayahuasca had visitations from a particular Entity that has Identified as well as proved to me on a personally undeniable level that it was infact the one true God and sole creator of the infinite multiverse. This being was very human like in many ways, much more so that many of the other entities I have interacted with under the influence of DMT.

This being wears a veil and as I understand it no living man can look upon his full face.

These encounters were so profound there are not words for the description of such an encounter.....

However, the point I am making is that from my DMT experiences I observed that there is a singular being, who is very human-like, that is responsible for the creation of the multiverse and it's inhabitants.

According to my current understanding this being created everything that there is in order to experience the joy of creation. Creation in my opinion was created to receive all that the creator has to offer in terms of giving.


From what I have seen, the Creator being is the ultimate and perfect giver and receiver module. Sentient beings were created in this image in order to be themselves ideal receivers and givers and also to be receptacles of fragmentalized divinity.


I believe the Garden of Eden can be viewed as a allegorical representation of what a proper relationship with the creator can be like. It is my strong belief that by acknowledging the existence of the creator and "giving" him all that we have to offer by existing to our absolute fullest potential as aware beings that it is possible to transcend the illusion of "limitations" and by so doing allow yourself to exist in a perpetual hyper-state of being that has limitless potential for opportunity and sustenance and becomes literally "Eden"..

The popular misconception that exists says that God wants us to "worship" him. This is another example of the original meanings of scripture being lost in abstract language. For example no one could say for sure what it is to worship something. Worship is a term that could mean 100 things to 99 people and is essentially a meaningless confused description.

From my understanding what God wants from us is not for us to "worship" him or to "believe" in him like he is the tooth fairy or Santa Claus. God does not want us to bow down to him 20 times a day in order to prove our reverence nor does he require us to carry on wordy monologues directed at him. I believe from direct experience that God want one thing from us, he wants us to exist to our fullest potential.

God wants inner silence from us, in my opinion "prayer" and "worship" is intended to be nothing more than silence. Why does he want humans to exercise their ability to be inwardly silent???
Because inner silence is the pathway to unadulterated existence.
Once you are able to control your thought you can then allow yourself to simply exist. This action in turn causes a human being to be progressively and increasingly aware of creation.

To summarize I believe the reason god the creator want a relationship with humans is not only because he himself has human qualities and desires interaction with his greatest achievement, humans. The creator also desires interaction with his creation in order to perpetuate the reciprocal symbiosis of giving and receiving. This establishes a connection between Creator and Creation allowing the circuit to then be completed. Once the circuit is completed Eden is allowed to manifest and absolute plentitude becomes reality in every single way. ------



As far as the idea of God being a jealous god. This issue is one that commonly comes up so I would like to briefly address it.

YHWH said "though shalt have no other God's before me". This is true he did indeed say that and he does definitely feel this way but it's not for the reasons many people believe.

Imagine it from the standpoint of a Parental figure. Think of humans as children. If you had a toddler aged child and you noticed one day that your child had a tendency to strike up conversations with random stranger on the street when ever the opportunity presented itself and in fact some of these "strangers" are unsavory looking characters...

Imagine for a moment what would your reaction be? Would you be upset because you are Jealous that the child is giving attention to someone else? Or would you be more upset because your child is unwittingly exposing themselves to potentially dangerous circumstances...?

Out of concern for the child's general safety the child would be FIRMLY and STERNLY told do not ever talk to strangers. The child of course does not understand all the reasoning behind this decree but the parent is clearly aware of the danger involved. By the same token most parents would not want their children looked after by other people who may have belief systems that sharply contrast with your own.

In some cases a parent is put in a position where they have to be direct and firm with the child for the sake of the child's own safety.

So my point is that God is a jealous God not because he is a selfish god. God is jealous because of his great love, with love comes protectiveness.

It is because YHWH is aware of the energetic dangers involved with following other God's.
=======================================================

I want to thank everyone for their thoughtful contributions to this thread thus far and allowing me the opportunity to communicate my belief system to you all for you individual considerations. I greatly appreciate you all for reading my threads

_-Elijah

Nice! I sure hope The Traveler installs a 'Like Button'. I so like your clarity of expression, specificity and eloquence with words, Brother Elijah.

Rising Spirit.....

The feeling is mutual. Since I first began posting on the nexus I have always found your threads and posts to be insperational and enlightning and I am always pleased as punch whenever you grace one of my humble threads with your well written and thought provoking contributions.

Much gratitude.

E-

As someone who has studied the Bible in some depth, spent time studying Qabbalah, and is familiar with Biblical Hebrew... I would agree with your assessment that it is not the "royal we" we see in the Old Testament. Most scholars agree that these stories are older than the Jewish religion, and older than the monotheism which caused people to go back and expunge most talk of multiple deities in the Torah but leaving various names and titles of G*d so as to leave hints for the serious mystic.

This, though, was completely erased from nearly all of the translations of the Bible out of Hebrew. It is pretty much standard that all the names and titles of G*d in the Bible be translated to the terms lord & G*d with occasional titles like "father who art in Heaven" or "King of the World" surviving the purge. As, of course, do some words that indicate gods and demigods that are clearly not "G*d" make it into many translations untranslated. (the various Baal characters, nephilim, sons of anak, anakim, sons of G*d, giants etc.)

In order to understand all this properly, you must keep certain key facts in mind.

1) Abraham was a Sumerian from Ur.
2) His father was an idolmaker and high priest.
3) He was therefore well versed in Sumerian "mythology"
3) Nearly all of Genesis is a "cliff notes" retelling of Sumerian creation and historical tales.

Place any story from Genesis next to the old Sumerian cuneiform tablets, and you will find that they are clearly summarized versions of the later. This includes everything from the Garden of Eden (E-din in Sumerian) to the Great Flood and the building of the Ark. It includes the whole Anakim, Nephilim, giants and all the rest. It is probable that the terms Anakim and Elohim are referring to the Sumerian Annunaki.

If you look at the Sumerian version of the Garden of Eden story, it is not a single deity talking to himself like a schizophrenic... but rather two or more gods at different parts. Our modern Jehovah is actually cobbled together from the two main Sumerian leader gods Enki and Enlil... with elements of a universal and transcendent "One G*d" tacked on later due to the revelations of the prophets.

The reason he seems so schizo in the Bible is that for much of the Sumerian tales, these two half-brothers and their descendants were at war with each other. Enlil (literally lord of the command or hosts) was the original "king in heaven" because he ruled on the homeworld. Enki (literally lord of the Earth) was the chief scientist (symbol of two snakes twining like a DNA double helix) and the actual creator of humanity. Despite being older (and seemingly wiser) than his younger half-brother, he lost the birthright of Kingship of the gods due to his mother being not the Queen.

At any rate, Sumerian mythology is vast and fascinating. It reads like sci-fi with clear depictions of spaceships, launch sites, wars with weapons of mass destruction and more. It describes a plausible creation story for humanity and describes the gifting to humanity of all the technology and science which historians to this day acknowledge were first displayed in Sumer. Of course, one must remember that the Sumerians had no practice of fiction. They did not make up stories for fun as far as we know. Nor did they think what they wrote to be mythology. They believed they were describing history and the world as they understood it to be. They believed these stories to be fact... as best as they could explain it.

Anyway, just thought I would throw that in there.

Hyperspace Fool...

Thank you for backing me up on the Elohim = God(s) issue.

I agree with what you said about abraham being sumarian and there have recently been found sumerian texts that contain hebrew script. I actually put the link to that article in the sacred geometry thread some time ago because of a discussion about Hebrew beliefs being older than egyptian beliefs.....

While the Sumerian mythology is interesting I do believe the author of the Torah had good reason to omitt many of the Sumerian myths from the Torah, possibly because they may have came from tainted sources such as the Nephilim themselves.

Yes, I could indeed subscribe to this view point, however I believe it is a fine line between the view of the poet Rumi...and the view of some that they themselves are God in almost a power craving luciferian sense...

Thanks-

Thank you guys for this great thread, it's a pleasure to read about all this interesting stuff!

I completely agree, it is a fine line. Myself personally, I have been walking that line for a while now trying to decide on which side to fall into. Lately however I've began to think that walking the line, the middle, is actually where the human=God definition rests.

We are God is the most humble sense, denying our own existence in an effort to acknowledge the supreme Creator containing infinite power.

While we are also God in the most powerful sense, creators of all we see and feel, know and experience while containing infinite potential.

It's a tricky thing... being a human.

[Also just wanted to add to the others saying this is a FANTASTIC thread. All of these replies are golden, let's keep it going!]

I think we made God in our image.
Not the other way around.

All the traits that we attribute to God are human traits. Horses of course would have a god with perfected horse traits, we have a god with perfected human traits.

I believe in a God, a higher power, but not in the Bible whatsoever.

I think we are God in some ways, we can exert tremendous influence and need to have a lot of responsibility. God is viewed as powerful, our evidence thus far is that we are the most powerful species we know of in terms of creation and manifestation.


I think a lot of our views of God are based on our need for self importance, we need to feel valid, and we use God to do that, by saying that we are the pet project of some perfect deity we justify our existence. We justify wrong action by invoking the justice of God, God will fix all in the next life etc.

God is a very dangerous concept.
Any species capable of conceiving of a God has become like one.

This I agree with. Probably not for the same reasons or coming from the same direction as you, but agree with nonetheless.

I think in order to conceive of things like infinity, omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence, you have to have some of that in you to begin with. As you said, horses wouldn`t come up with such a deity. Humans, for the most part didn`t even have such a deity until relatively recent times. Most gods historically were rather finite, petty (but relatively powerful) beings that had a single sphere of influence... or acted just like a somewhat more advanced version of us.

Most pantheons were composed of gods that could just have easily been Atlanteans, ETs, elves or wizards...




Perhaps. But the infinite and all knowing deity I mentioned above... the one that is not limited to thunder, wine-making or moonlight might seem to be a reflection of our growing sense of the size of the Universe... except it was described in multi-dimensional, MC Escher like glory 10,000 years ago at least. A time which predated telescopes by a long shot.

Thus, it is worth considering perhaps that it actually goes the other way around... at least some times. Divine revelations may be just that. Krishna revealing his infinite nature to Arjuna and so on.


Hear hear.

The Bible is an interesting book. Moreso if you play with the gematria and qabbalistic codes it is riddled with... but it is kind of a tedious bore. And, I have yet to see a single person read the book and then just magically grok the truth.

Parts of it are laughable. Parts of it are downright disturbing, though.

Probably the only X rated book that über conservative parents actual FORCE their kids to read. When I hear people putting down (fill in the blank with the vice that is currently destroying the youth--rock, rap, sex on tv, violent movies, D&D etc.) and then praising the Holy Book... I have to choke back my laughter, scorn and pity. Have these people actually even read the thing?

Sheesh.

RS eagerly presses the like button, yet again.

Clearly what you both refer to as the "bible" is the watered down and non sensical translation that is commonly thought of as an original text....

The bible as we have been spoon fed it contains the word God because it is a mistranslation..
Therefore the Idea of God is indeed an innacurate and as you pointed out a "dangerous" abstraction.

The word God is nothing more than a blatant Censorship.

The original hebrew gliphs that have been dumbed down and lamely translated into phrases like "the lord god" have been removed from the English translations of the bible that exist today...


YHWH Meaning

Names of God in the Torah


People commonly assume that the bible is a worthless peice of literature. This assumption is based on the idea that is filled with nonsense and dogma...It is only filled with nonsense and Dogma because it has been severely mistranslated from the original Hebrew version of the Torah.. Therefore all original Kabbalistic meaning has been washed away...

I believe that the Torah it is a text that was written by people who took psychedelics.

The torah is an allegory. It is an ingenious system of metaphorical description that can serve as a fluid and easy to understand guide to the natural laws that exist in not only the spirit world but also it is a blueprint of the rules and laws that govern the material plane as well..

The people who are "in charge" of religion as we know it today do not make a profit on teaching others to find God for themselves. Profit is made by creating a dependence on the existence of organized religion... If everyone could see God in their living room then there would be no way for any middle men to capitalize on other people....

This is why the bible has been censored the way that it has IMO, the church has everything to gain by withholding knowledge that could possibly lead to personal enlightenment...The church also had everything to gain by making the bible seem so confusing that it seems like you need someone else to explain it.

When in fact it is written to be easy to understand in plain language...it has been translated into an abstract and vauge text, hence the many problems such as the existence of words like "God", "Heaven", "Faith", "Grace", "Sin" "God", "Jesus".....

These abstract phrases lead to even more abstract phrases such as ....

"Jesus died for your sins"

--This is a statement that essentially extends from misinformation

Many church people parrot this saying and while I'm sure they think they understand the meaning of this phrase....In my opinion this phrase is a meaningless blurb designed to do nothing other than create a guilt trip of some kind...

Christ handed himself over to the Romans willingly not because he was suicidal nor did he desire to be a martyr. Christ allowed the romans to capture him because he realized that he could accomplish more in death than he could in life.

Christ literally percieved that his Death would merely be a tranfigeration. Christ appeared to us in the material world to be handing himself over to death... In reality he was traveling from one plane of existence to the next so that he could be of better assistance to humanity.

As an entity Christ is capable of assisting any one, any time an where with any problem, his ability is limitless.. Also -The hebrew meaning for sin is to miss the mark.. like an arrow that missed the target..

-E







-

I've studied the Torah, I used to study Hebrew.


When I write of the Bible I mean all of it, old and new.

Also the books excluded from it, the basic apocryphal texts included.

My opinion (no need to repeat it) of the bible extends to the Torah.

I have no clue is Christ ever existed, I don't think of the Bible as factual, not old or new or any translation. To me Christ is a character in a story just like Moses. I doubt Moses even existed, maybe he did... it isn't worth arguing about I suppose.

I view humans as having God like abilities.

My favorite books dealing with this conceptually are Frankenstein and Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. Those are my scriptures as much as anything.

I also do not see time as linear in an absolute sense, I have no belief in creation or origination. I do not believe there is an origin or a completion for the universe or existence. I believe in IS, not was or will be. I guess that makes me crazy.

So you believe humans have God-like abilities yet you do not belive in creation or origination?

Also I assume you have studied kabbalah as well and found it equally of no use?

God is an energy that gives rise to happenings in the universe..we are energy constructs within that universe..therefore god = energy..and energy = us. So yes if that is what people mean than yes we are god..or we are part of that construct.

If people want to go on about angels and demons and god as in some man or women etc than have at it..I just dont really know what the hell to make of any of that lol. Also, how can there be gods?..as in more than one? How can there even only be one? Why does any of this even have to make any sense? Energy makes sense..constructs of that energy make sense..everything else is just sort of inbetween and who knows what is up with all of that..

..and..who the f-k cares really? Who cares if some angel says this or that to you or if this being manifests in your living room? It is all just energy either way isnt it? So wtf does it matter? These are just some of my thoughts on the whole topic of god, spirituality etc..

The abstractions are of peripheral importance because often times it is never conrete..though the energy you carry away from those experiences are..and for me what I bring away is that everything on some level is energy. There is nothing far out or occult about it..it is just energy. If things dont have any energy they have no potential and are just innert nothings that probly dont exist so all I can assume is that everything has energy and that energy is god.

In that sense I dont believe in god. I know god..and I am god.