the soma ritual entailed the high priest consuming massive quantities of a substance that was metabolized in the body and urinated into the zealots mouths. While the species is up for question, because of the method of delivery it is most assuredly some type of mushroom. pantherina and muscaria both contain ibotenic acid which our bodies turn into muscimol, which is an incredibly powerful hallucinogen. We only use 2% of the metabolized muscimol before it is excreted. Cubensis and cyensis mushrooms have psylocybin, which I have read we only process about 30% of. Soma, although glorified in its historical accounts, was considered to be a direct door to heaven. It really is a shame that the majority of its recorded history has been lost.

As I have had very profound experiances with sacred mushroom ritual I find mythologies like this truly awe inspiring. If anyone has any good sources on soma please let me know

another interesting one, and others may agree, would be kykeon.
there's a real 'mystery'...

The discovery of the true existence of powerful sacred drugs is fairly recent, at least in terms of Western science. It clearly needs much more extensive and diligent research.

Given up trying to have fun? Sounds boring. Fun can be spiritual and healing.
Have you ever taken psychedelics with like-minded people?

Psychedelics mean different things to different people, almost a reflection of themselves. But the mirror their looking into is slightly askew from their normal reality. Groups of people can look into psychedelic mirrors with each other.

With 5 friends. Mushrooms. We did a laughing belly chain. Where you put your head on someone's stomach and someone puts their head on your belly. One person starts laughing and the whole chain gets going.

Was it a waste of 30 min. on mushrooms? Definitely not. It was pure fun.

I think the deciding factor here is the individual. It doesn't really matter what the psychedelic is. Intention, set/setting, self projection, and a dash of randomness are the variables that separates recreational (hedonistic, which theres nothing wrong with so long you are the one in control, and not the drug) from spiritual, therapeutic/medicinal, introspective, etc.

People use psychedelics recreationally because they create the circumstances cohesive for that type of usage. The same goes for any other uses of psychedelics. Its the same for all drugs. You can be a moderate occasional drinker and by doing so enhance aspects of your life, creativity, etc. Or an alcoholic who needs to drink to feel normal, physically and psychologically. You can trip recreationally occasionally, and get great utility from doing so through whatever it provides to you.

I would hazard a guess that even though the harm is relative, relying on psychedelics to sort your life/mind/emotions/etc out is not healthy usage of them if you don't learn and make positive change that makes you need/want these lessons/experiences less and less until your where you want to be in life. IE integration of what you've learned.

But those who realize the potential after fixing/learning about personal issues by using the drugs to come to terms and understand their problems, imho find the most utility from psychedelics. That's to say you finally settle on what they really do, expand possibility/perspective cognitively. That opens up all kinds of usage of psychedelics, where occasional recreational use is not prohibitive. You find more and more uses for the tools by thinking of them as Swiss army knives that always have a tool to be found.

Hedonistic, recreational, party, tripping balls man, usage of psychedelics where the individual does not wish to use them as tools, is another way. I'd bet theres people out there that can do this to extents most others can't because they are focused/determined on why they use them, their intentions so to say. But having the wrong intentions (no matter how strong) and tripping all the time will cause most people to be caught off guard, and either scare them away, or be forced to realize the mistake of doing so by a rough trip.

Quite possibly even cause lasting positive/negative changes in their life since they were forced over into another use these tools have though breakdown of the cognitive dissonance that allowed them to think of them as "just another euphoric drug".

But having strong, responsible, intentions to use a psychedelic recreationally responsibly imho will elicit that kind of experience if done right. Often time with positive affects for the individual. Just as the same holds true for people using them for any other use. The full potential is realizing the variety of experiences they can induce using these tools and never stop experimenting. But at the same time, always remembering to have strong intentions for doing so every time, and abusing them will quickly degrade that in people who are there just for the high, just for fun, far too often, and without regard for the psychological risks involved.

I've been here there and everywhere with various substances, and the way i see it, the only thing you can do wrong with psychedelics is to try and control the experience and use it for your own needs/purposes compulsively/repeatedly. The way i believe these drugs work is the anti-thesis of that, and perhaps why people don't abuse them as much as other drugs. At its core its telling you don't get caught up here, theres always more uses for these tools to be found.

That would seem a hard thing to do trying to chase the metaphorical psychedelic dragon and abuse them. Your either going to cause psychological damage, or realize that what your doing is no different than any drug abuse, and how its counterproductive to what you could be getting using psychedelics more generally and balanced. Perhaps that holds true for people who claim profound spiritual realizations from psychedelics but they don't stick when the trip is over. Their spirituality is reliant on tripping so to say. IMHO thats abuse since your not really getting anything from it that sticks. That doesn't however mean you should "hang up the phone once the message is heard". There is no true enlightenment offered by psychedelics, just experiences that open you up to more of the bigger picture.

The message is never the same, and thats the magic of it. If you sit there and listen to message after message, you don't leave time to let your mind make sense of it all in relation to the bigger picture. That's the problem with psychedelic abuse, which can manifest through recreational, spiritual, introspective, self medicative, etc usage.

To me it sounds like the OP has legitimate issues with people using them just for recreation, when in fact those people have issues with abusing drugs in general. Occasional recreational use is fine, no matter what the drug, just not too often, and always kept in perspective.

I began using drugs just to get high. Now days I can't even smoke weed without a profound thought shifting experience. I've been pushed into a disciplinary approach to use all substances with pure intent, and respectful regard. Yes, I trip balls, and yes I enjoy that side affect. But what I [i]feel[i] is what I'm seeking.

To be inspired.
To fathom the power.
To witness the beauty.
To bathe in the fountain.

That's my prerogative. To experience "God", to be reminded fully that I'm really not alone and everything is going to end well.

For me LSD is extremely fun.. It turns the world into a carnival version of itself and a joke that only I'm in on. That's just how I trip, man and I can't force it to be something that it's not. I don't do it at parties though because my LSD experience is so profoundly visual every time that I get lost in my own little world and the drunks around me can't understand why you're not interested in talking to them. I love to do acid with other people on acid in a chilled out, friendly environment. LSD seems to sharpen my wits and allow me to make connections I otherwise wouldn't have while sober minded, which results in a lot of great calls and a lot of laughter.

A lot of people say that each LSD experience is a learning experience, but very few people can actually tell me anything they learned. The only thing I've learned from acid is that my mind is capable of creating things I've never dreamed of. Other than that I may gain a new appreciation for a particular concept and maybe some new perspectives, which is great. But if it doesn't happen I'm not bummed out because I had a great time high on acid.

welp, I've done lsd to the point where it ended up being predictable and boring.
others have reported the same. believe it or not, james kent once told me in an email
he had just about reached a similar point with dmt.
with frequent use, these agents of consciousness can lose their novelty rather quickly.
and like the Day Tripper pointed out, they are by no means the key to enlightenment.

I feel very similar about LSD.

About psychedelics not being the key to enlightenment: Definitely agree.

Ram Dass, in "Be Here Now" goes on a journey to India. His intent was to bring LSD to Lamas and see if they could, "tell him what is was". I assume this means on a spiritual level. One Lama said it just gave him a headache. Another said, "its good, but not as good as meditation". Another, on a 915 ug dose, said nothing happened at all.

Is meditation the highest form?

For me mild doses of mushrooms, when taken in natural settings, still sling me into a world of utter observation. Trees, life, water, flowers, even dirt all look magical.

WOW! seems unfathomable to reach a point where DMT becomes boring. Especially because setting plays such a huge role in all of my DMT trips. On top of a mountain, in the desert, by a creek, living room, back yard, under a full moon, ect. All settings have made for drastically different trips. Even consecutive trips in the same setting seem to be vastly different.

Regardless, psychedelics have opened my eyes to realms of possibilities and more importantly, introduced me to vast numbers of people who think/act/live in alternative ways.

Life was black and white, sometimes grey. Now it feels full of infinite color.

says who??
I myself have enjoyed many a night dancing away to bangin' beats with my fellow tripsters, in clubs and at raves.

no offence but I feel your subjective views and opinions have tainted your own discussion from the set-out.
just because you dont like to use them for fun does not mean millions (literall) of other people do not.

any time drugs/substances/chemicals/whateverthehellyouwanttocallthem are administered in a non clinical setting ie that of a medical professional prescribing them to you, or in a psychiatry situation-
they are being used recreationally. you can beat around the bush all you want- its recreation.

i use these substances for spiritual & personal growth reasons but i also use them to have a good time and unwind.
just because the experience comes with lessons and self examination etc does NOT mean that i am not having a fantastic time tripping my tits off and giggling at cartoons.

there is absolutely nothing, i repeat NOTHING wrong with having fun on psychedelics and being silly.
your senses and mind are there to be enjoyed.
as are these plants & chemicals.

while they should most definitely be respected and not abused, don't take them so over-seriously, you might miss out.

it should be noted that i am very experienced with lsd, to the point that i dont really use it anymore. (Edit; just noticed Benzyme said the same thing )i used it a bit too much too often i reckon. i still love it but i prefer the shorter lasting more gentle and comfy tryptamine family

"Another, on a 915 ug dose, said nothing happened at all."

lol..that is such an old myth that needs to die.

Many of us, myself included, came into using psychedelics as a purely recreational thing. I was really just out to party and see cool patterns in the air. I honestly had no idea that these substances had a deeper dimension to them. Back then there was no Internet and almost no information; I hadn't yet fallen in with the psychedelic subculture- again, had no idea it even existed- and although LSD and shrooms were readily available, information about them was not.

One night I was on about 300ug with my GF at the time. She was going a bit harder than I, and seemed to want her space, so I retired into the other room and just sort of squirmed around. I asked her later about what she'd seen. She had ended up in the lotus position (we are talking about a junkie poet street punk type, not a cosmic Earth mother type) and meditated, eyes closed. A blue energy grid manifested around her and included her; at the farthest point of the grid materialized the form of a towering blue goddess. She thrummed with energy. Then I guess my squirming snapped her out of it. At any rate, I'd never heard of such a thing before. It sounded mysterious and powerful.

Two years and maybe 20 or 30 trips later, I had a deeper appreciation for the beauty of life and nature as seen through the lens of these substances... But it was really still just a fun thing to do with friends. I had not been introduced to the idea of higher doses in isolation, for example. So one night a friend joined me, we split 7g of shrooms and took a cab to the movie theater where we watched this ridiculous Stallone sci- fi movie. It was great for laughs... Took the cab back home. Still just partying... But the shrooms are really good, quite strong in fact. My GF (new one now, the one I married later) greeted me, we all shared a fat bowl and my friend decided to retire to the guest room to fry. I put on a favorite symphony, one with a fair amount of strong emotional content. Don't ask me what compelled me to do this.

At any rate, I just fell into the music. This particular piece (Shostakovich Symphony #15) is built around two grand climactic releases, both quite gut wrenching... And at both of these moments I fell into an eternal white hole; total loss of self, total emotional climactic overload, larger than myself, larger than the universe... Everything that I knew just blasted into dust.

Needless to say, my opinion if psychedelics changed dramatically that night. So did my worldview. Soon after, we moved into a loft building, raw with great roof access. The next door neighbor was a fairly experienced psychonaut, with books and reams of xeroxed articles, TMK recordings, and other friends in the psychedelic scene. I was home.

Anyway, long story short: psychedelics can be a lot of fun. But partying on psychedelics can lead to unintended transcendence. If they weren't enjoyable to begin with, nobody would be compelled to explore them more deeply.

Some very interesting points, Guy.

I can only speak of some experiences i had in South America (where certain psychadelics are not only legal but part of the cultural heritage), but one thing i would say is that there's a time and place for everything. Certainly, i think that certain substances may be used sucessfully in an appropiate set/ setting, ie psytrance festival of like minded folks, or beach side bars in the Far east or something, if you catch my drift.

I would say that anyone who chose a strong dose of a powerful psychadelic and then ventured into a typical loud brittish street bar full of drunk people and loud pop music made a bad choice, and chose the wrong substance to imbibe.

So, probably "recreational" within a CERTAIN setting is a more apt way of saying it.

I'm probably wrong, but just my 1 pence.

Ayahuasca in Weatherspoons, its my own personal hell

I thought everyone in weatherspoons was on ayahuasca. Freaking out, throwing up all over the place and what not.

Ayahuasca has barely made it half way across my garden, but me and a friend did go for a jog on the tail end of a pharmahuasca journey. It was exausting. Other than that it felt quite pleasant.

At moments in LSD trips I quite like to venture down to a shop to get supplies and I find there to be something a little cheaky about getting to the checkout and fumbling with my wallet like I'm seeing it first time while the attendant looks on impatiently. I'm a little unsure of myself, but not enough to get the fear, just feel a little crazy

I can't do this with mushrooms as I get too much anxiety. Then the least anxious of my walkabout psyches is Mescaline. I'll take that anywhere in all manner of doses for all manner of reasons. 70mg for airport stress, 400mg for a summer walkabout day, then upwards for something special.

I dare say though, with each substance there will come a level of intensity at some point where I'm floored and venturing seems just plain foolish and unecassary.

I remember I started taking psychedelics because they made music sound nicer. In the begining I'd sit in my room with my headphones on just listening to music all night. I think when I discover'd the DMT experience was probably the first time that it wasn't all about the music. It would just be that irritating sound that I hear on my return that confused me. Then I noticed when taking harmaloids music would sound faster than normal, so I'd switch it off. I think that's when psychedelics became an analytical tool for consciousness rather than an audio enhancer.

As for taking substances for music and dancing? Well I believe that to be just as much an awakening process as a recreational activity. Then even in my deeper secluded voyages I have found moments of intense joy which is more fun that I'd ever had in my life, clothes on or off.

I don't believe its all that easy to draw a line and in doing so you'd probably just be limiting the potential of what is possible.

I think the main problem with doing psychs recreationally is a matter of intention. That is to say, if your sole intention is to have fun with these substances, you might get away with it a handful of times, but eventually when you do experience a trip with negative and unwanted emotions, it puts that person in a bad situation turning worse because after all, if the intent was to have fun, and you're not having fun, then this can create one terrible feedback loop of negativity.

The other thing is that DMT which seems to have a mind and personality all its own can take it upon itself to reprimand you where yourself or others have failed to do so. It can punish with emotions, with pain, with fear, with discomfort, with denied access or in a grand display of a full-blown lesson with actual semantic/symbolic scolding.

However if one should invariably have fun, it shouldn't be shied away from like something to be guilty about that you were enjoying yourself (possibly more than you though humans were even capable of enjoying themselves), but just that if you should find yourself returning with the sole intentions of having fun/getting high, then eventually you'll get your kick in the pants.

This is a really good point. I have no problem with people using psychs recreationally. If all you care about is being messed up then I have a problem. I've seen messed up. I've seen close friends seizure, from unknown psych RC substance, I've seen friends with the most terrified look in their faces, I've even had a friend die from freaking out and driving. I saw friends doing it every day, flunking out of college, becoming drug addicts just looking for the next high no matter what it was. Behavioral issues are a b!

You've never broken through so how can you honestly say dmt can "loose its novelty rather quickly" with any sort of certainty? I would actually experience it for yourself benz before taking someones word for it.. especially james kent, of all people

Considering james kent has commented that dmt is no more astonishing than the affect of rubbing you're eyes with you're hands and seeing things-and various other indications that show he clearly has very little deep experience with it- i think its safe to conclude that he doesn't know what he's talking about in regards to the dmt experience. The idea that dmt "looses its magic" over time is ridiculous to anyone whose done extensive deep work with these things (unless they're pulling a classical jonobo/joemolly after the fact).

After being on the nexus for years, and exploring dmt for years, it seems obvious that the consensus is quite the opposite: dmt hardly "looses its novelty rather quickly". It only gets deeper and more bizarre imo(especially once you begin exploring things like ayahuasca) - and that seems to be a reoccuring opinion among many of the seasoned folks here.

I'm not saying that with any certainty. this is something he alluded to, in another choice of words. maybe not so much that it loses its novelty, but you know what to expect.

he compared it to cliff diving. the first couple times are apprehensive and mind blowing. but after doing it several times, the rush is still there, you just know how it will go.
I'd take JK's word for it over many of our members, because he can look at the experience from something other than a new-agey perspective.

As if no members here view it outside a "new-agey" perspective? What does that even mean?

I would take you're OWN experience as evidence instead of simply taking somebodies word for it. What good does that do you? (especially when that persons opinion contradicts what the vast majority. And i'm not just talking about nexians)

"the the rush is still there, you just know how it will go."

You would be hard pressed to find someone who actually agrees with this IMO. If i've learned anything about hyperspace its that yes, the rush is always there..but you will never "just know how it will go". Its highly unpredictable