Here's one of those un-answerable questions I've pondered before yet I've never really read any speculation on the matter (not to say it doesn't exist). I'm sure many of you have already thought this before, and therefore it most likely won't be any kind of new revelation or anything, but I'd love to hear some opinions.

Now think of the word nothing. What does it imply? It implies Something that is unfathomable to us because we know information and experience life. In other words, we are experiencing something. Therefore how did the concept of nothing arise? If the universe is infinite and eternal, which I do believe it to be, there couldn't have ever been a state of nothingness. It doesn't make any sense for this universe to arise from nothingness - it would be impossible.

(I must interject here. It was at this point in my post that I had to walk away from my computer and take a 'break'. When I speak of this subject it effects me very deeply and it's hard to talk about. My mind starts to become numb. I can't think of simple comforts in life that can "bring me back" [ie loved ones or upcoming tasks I'm involved in, things that take my mind off the subject]. It becomes hard to breathe and think straight and I have to stop myself, distract myself from fear of my Own thoughts. I'll begin to quiver, feel nausea, and become anxiouls almost as if I'm on a trip that's losing control, even though I haven't consumed any psychedelics in over a year)

Back on task, so I find myself asking these questions, is there no such thing as true nothingness? And could you truly imagine it? How does the word and concept of nothing even exist when there is always truly something?

Then I find myself asking, well why are there things (people, planets, consciousness, etc) ? Simply put, wouldnt it be "easier" for lack of a better term for there to be no universe, nothing material or otherwise in existence? I've only been able to have one friend to somewhat understand what I'm truly conveying, because I could sense the fear and confusion he was going through. We've talked about the subject more than once, each time both agreeing the implications were too mind-numbing to go any further. How couldn't there be nothing? It makes more sense almost. To not have all of this universe, consciousness, existence.... For there to be a true nothingness - wouldnt it be easier for the assumed cognitive wheels (perhaps consciousness) that keep the universe perpetually flowing? Or do they not tire, or die or wish to reach a state of rest, or atleast a state that doesn't experience pain and fear and other undesirable things we endure as a part of this universe(the forces or energy that keep the universe moving, that is)? Are there higher evolved states of consciousness or perhaps dimensions that don't experience fear and pain as we do? That would be assuring atleast.
Back to nothingness... Really when you think about it, wouldn't true nothingness be a more realistic scenario than what has actually happened in the universe (the creation and existence of you and me and it's infinite galaxies for example)? Especially when you take in consideration the current health of our planet, the majority of it's inhabitants, and presumably the whole universe? The odds seemed stacked against us, yet this universe, this experience, this consciousness will never fail to exist? What if there never was a conscious universe? What if none of us had ever existed? It seems more probable, to me anyway that there would be true nothingness, meaning nothing has ever nor ever will exist.

What do you guys think? Sorry if I was repetitive at all, but it takes some dwelling, you need to really think about nothingness for a while, and not just write it off as some hippy/stoner stereotypical existential question. Isn't it easier, more likely or probable that there would be truly nothing, not even a single atom, but pure nothingness? Thanks for your time

In my deepest, darkest void there was always thought.

Think about how thing were before you were born.

That's nothing...

I think that Universe - an Ocean of Energy. There, there is All and Always. Time - a small part to that Energy of Universe, but human (and Over-Human) Mind - a speck, which why-that belongs to this River of Time. So "our reality" - a product of Mind inwardly River of Time. In early, Over-Human Mind gave us the "WORD" ( -This is great instrument of description of "Reality" ) . This Act help us, but it lock us in limit of Mind. (Why it has happened with us? -I often ask myself...) Apropos, shamans and magic imply such concept an energy and this gives him possibility to overcome the borders of Mind-reality and get the result impossible in "usual world" for "usual consciousness". // All about than I have said - appearing "images" in my consciousness. For itself - I feel that this so and there is. And me this it is enough to with this live. But in no event I do not be going to to confirm that this - a Truth. (I consider that all so comparatively that even "Truth" not one, but their much...) Thank you for attention to my words. & i'm sorry, that my bad English again. //

I've used that same exact notion to help describe nothingness to some people, and it's worked. I'd say "when were you born?" and they'd give me a date. Then I'd ask them if they remember the day before they were born, and they'd obviously say no, and thus they somewhat understood what it was like to be nothing, to have no conscious. However, if you believe in past lives and reincarnations, then perhaps you already have observed or experienced consciousness. If this was the case, then you've truly never experienced nothingness, you're currently just trying to remember everything that you already know. Presumably as well, consciousness as well as the existence of the universe would still happen even if you individually were never born. So I'm trying to go beyond you're personal experience. Yes perhaps if you were never born you personally wouldn't have experienced anything therefore you're nothing. But what if the universe or consciousness itself was never born? This state of true nothingness, meaning nothing ever existed and ever will, what are the true implications? Fathom there being nothing, darkness, silence, much like space. If everything was just space, void of energy, nothing ever existed... This seems to be a more likely/probable scenario than what we are currently experiencing in this life, does it not? It seems it would just be "easier" to have nothing, so why is there existence when there is the more likely possiblity of nothingness? No universe ever exisiting makes more sense than the current consciousness that is our curent universe, in my opinion.

who is the one that is aware of there being nothing?

people can 'get' concepts; through the tool of language-create and define the world into separate 'things'
[afterall looking at earth from afar it is one 'object']

nothing cannot be a concept because it would be defined as a 'something' to understand.

it cannot be a concept we can be certain about and fully grasp, but we can be/feel nothing; as the space within which something exist/happens; coexisting unto eachother.

We are baffled by limitlessness, in either direction. 'Nothingness' or 'Infinity', both register a Null Program when we try to parse them; we can't imagine them.

Whether it would be better or simpler for there to be nothing, I can't say. We know so little about what IS happening that it seems impossible to make any definite statements about it. We are born into mystery, live in mystery, and return to mystery. We know so little about what the default conditions of 'existence' actually are, much less whether a set of conditions we can't imagine would prevail.

I suspect that our concepts of existence and nothingness, much like our concepts of good and evil (or real and imaginary) are incomplete, and whatever is going on with life, the universe, and everything is quite different from anything we *think* is going on.

But that's just a theory. I could be wrong.

..there was a long thread about nothing last year..https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/d...osts&t=25524&p=1 in the Philosophy section..

a few thoughts..

existence has no meaning without non-existence..they are sides of the same concept..

reality may simply be a consequence of nothingness..

what's beyond what exists?
.

Alan Watts explains it the best I love this man so much!!
"You cant have something without nothing." This video is is so enlightening. Something and nothing can only exist together. There was no first. You can not have the ups without the downs. The space manifests the solid.

Absolutely, Alan was a wonderful human being and many of us count him as one of our most loved and respected teachers. There's really not much more that can be effectively added to his clear perspective and intelligent observations. It can be re-phrased and redefined, certainly. Perhaps this has some collective value, perhaps not?

I'm of the opinion that it does indeed have some practical philosophical value (and admittedly, I could be totally wrong to think so). This is not a new inquiry, but to the contrary, it is a most ancient inquiry. Socrates is quoted as having said, "I know one thing, that I know nothing." Another way of translating the ancient Greek text of this statement (the latest interpretation of contemporary scholars of ancient Greek linguistics) it reads this way, "My knowledge comes from an unknowing." :idea:

This in turn, can be seen as implying that by releasing his CONCEPTS of this and that, something ans nothing... he became self-aware that perception is relative to the degree of understanding feasibly cognizable, by the limitations of our human perception. The small range of data we receive is infantessible to the sum total of what MAY be existent, on all levels and upon all planes of being and therefore, non-being.

I have come to believe that this is where the idea of God arises. We humanoids desperately want there to be a reason or at least a reasonable cause to what may very well have always been. So if we intuit a Unified Field of Being, which encompasses that which is and that which is not... it must by rational necessity, be PRESENT within both polarities.

This is arguably why the Chinese mystic, Lao Tzu, expressed his ideas on the Tao. In addition, as was apparently the case of Socrates and many others, to state that true knowledge is illusory and that every epiphany is superseded by the next. Like a spiraling labyrinth, which leads into new labyrinths, each time the way is found to appear clear and subjectively REAL to our minds. It's plain to see that the Void is beyond description and/or quantification.



I would emphasize, that from my own deductions & methodical investigations, insights & intuitions (all part of my own dreamscape and my own tiny range of experience)... nothingness does not exist. I do not, however, proclaim that somethingness does exist, as it may only exist within my mental parameters.

Why is this? Because I have witnessed the whole process dissolve into the Void from whence it came, each time I embark into a psychedelic foray. I watch my conceptual formatting loose it's grip on reality, therefore, raising the truly big questions about my own existential paradigm and the myriad illusions occupying my thought process.

Not in terms of our present concept of existential reality, that is. For the quantification of existence itself, is dependent of a witness to the play of all of these universal phenomena. Essentially, we give the ideas of somethingness and nothingness their meaning by our conceptual associations.

For example, much of our understanding of no-thingness is based on our perceptual faculties and our limited understanding of what does exist. So, if someone hands you an empty box with a lid upon it and asks you what's inside of it... you naturally explore this challenge and so, exclaim that there is nothing inside the box. Or are there things we just are unable to perceive with our range of faculties?

Yet, there is an entire universe of microscopic and macroscopic activity, within multiple interior layers of LIFE itself; levels of unseen energy at play inside and outside of the box in question. Our physical eyes are too gross to perceive of these "things"... so what then is the truest definition of said nothingness?

That which we do not perceive and cannot grasp, given our range of predominantly material perception... becomes labeled at "nothing". Literally, "something" without identifiable features or characteristics. No form, substance and apparently, both immaterial and indivisible in it's quintessential Void-ness.

It is THAT which we do not see, feel, comprehend or even intuit. Understandably, because we do not perceive of it's existence (with our mind and senses), this is hardly reason to say it does not exist at all, on any level. For us it does not, however, an important factor to take into this equation is this, can we be so certain that there are not areas of our cognition which DO perceive of something within the nothingness?

I do sincerely believe and many, many others in this association seem to imply the same idea, we CAN and DO attune to such subtle states of conscious awareness. Whereby, that which seemed empty or immaterial, is discovered to be full of existence and "things" which we ordinarily do not perceive.

Overall, it is one of the tragic fallacies of reason, that we accept appearances for reality, simply because we think that it is so. "I think, therefore I am." So, if we do not think, we do not exist? These and many other riddles so fascinate my mind, that it often makes me ponder... and in so doing, pause long enough to stop my conceptualizations about this and that.

Ultimately, something and nothing are one force, it is we ourselves, who bring these illusory dichotomies into being and we ourselves, who are challenged to perceive as united... or not. It would seem that without a subjective witness to the mirage of duality, is does not exist. Taking this line of thought one step further, it is logical to assume that MOST of what is really happening in this manifest universe, is completely beyond our grasp as individuated points of consciousness.

Whatever the Void is... I speculate that it is interlocked within an eternity of circular morphing. Manifestations and de-manifestaions exchange interdenominational motion, back into the unmanifested... only to re-manifest into being. Which in turn necessitates an observer to notice any differentiation whatsoever.

So I often ask myself... Who am I? What am I? If I did not exist... what else would? If existence itself had no polarity, as with the concept of non-existence, what would actually be? What would the I become? It's important to note, that such circular logic cannot yield any ultimate answers, truths or finite conclusions.

Although, it DOES open new doors into perceiving "things" which we have yet to reflect upon, so it's like the ole archaic symbol of Ouroboros devouring it's own tail (a symbolic dragon who consumes itself to comprehend itself, only to grow exponentially and thus, need to be consumed all the more of itself, by itself).

Around and around we go!

crazy i was thinking the same thing.

I smoked a bowl of MJ vibing chilling, and thought of NOTHING;

But first i removed all the people then the planets and mass

Then the energies heat and vibration light and all we do not know

But when i try to remove the SPACE - the image transforms to solid or like an weird image of infinite mass??

I Think there could Never be NoTHing thats a Good thing right

^^^^



LOL

This is where my mind goes when I ponder nothingness... I will never fully be able to conceptualize "nothing" because the concept of it is still a "thing" and the point was to get to a place of "no thing."

Alan Watts speaks such divine truth so simply. I absolutely love listening to him/reading his written works.

When I am deep in thought about existence I sometimes wonder "why?" Why we are here, why is everything operating. OP, I think this is what you are so perplexed about, forgive me if I'm wrong: If it would be easier to expend no energy in the machinations of creation, then why is it here at all? If we all blipped out of existence along with every "thing" ever created, then there would be true nothingness, but what would follow? Who would be there to see the nothingness? No one. It makes sense to my mind that what would follow would be more form, more creation, more manifestation, because it can be so therefore it is so. Perhaps this has happened an infinite number of times, that nothing has breathed life into something. Great theologies and mysticisms of the past have always provided words to explain how it is so.

Lawrence Krauss wrote a book about this you may find interesting. Check it out.

Is it not a little comforting to know that IF true nothingness awaits us, truly we would never sense nor conceive of such a thing as we ourselves would be nothing? There could be no chance to experience any part of nothingness, as any "experiencer" necessitates that there be SOMETHING to do the observing

I hear ya man. I have thought about this many times for years and years. When I am peaking on mushrooms, I will think about stuff like this and it just blows my mind every time.

I was watching a documentary on death and they had people who undergone heart transplants who for 2 hours where technically dead, heart stopped and cells where no longer receiving oxygen. When these patients where brought back to life they explained the experience was similar to having an on and off switch, it was off, they couldn't remember anything or nothing. So this would be the closest thing to nothing in my opinion being dead.

That passage of time between onconciusness and dream, is a quantifyable measure of nothing. Sparse moments of thought or experiance of a sense bring something to the nothing, but mostly it is that moment we all fear to become a part of, the absense of anything

But why fear nothing? The only time we could be aware of such nothing moments is in the period AFTER they occur, implying that nothingness is already over and we are once again in something-ness. There is no frame of reference for how long nothing lasted for, and if it were for infinity then we would never be able to know that it happened. Real nothing is not something we can experience, so it seems strange to me to fear it

great discussions and lots of good points. i cant add much just taking in the arguments right now. but i can recommend reading heidegger's being and nothingness for some awesome insight from one of the great philosophers.