There you have it, the simple truth that got your wiggling dna into the womb of this world.

Icon,

I would like to direct you to the Attitude and suggest you read it before posting further. We strongly discourage these wild ideas without any sort of evidence or reasonable argument. Please consider this going forward.


-a1pha

that still doesn't address how rocks/minerals, which are composed of ionic complexes, are living things. what sort of precursors do they consume? what are their metabolic byproducts?
what are their lifespans? how do they reproduce?

living forms have nucleic acids, proteins. which ones have been isolated from rocks (sterile ones, not containing microbes)?

you know, proteins are now considered to be 'living' entities, they once were not...but they require a substrate, and produce byproducts. they have active and inactive forms. rocks do not.


didn't mean to derail this thread, it's a decent topic, and a good question. look at any organism known to metabolize tryptophan, and you may find dmt.

My attitude? I'm giving benzyme all of my respect, we're just all discussing this idea openly, no? He really is renowned, don't take that sarcastically.

This idea's been fermenting in my mind for the past year, and the reason it seems so crystal clear today is because of my trip last night. It was my 1yr anniversary of discovering this molecule so I decided to listen to all the wisdom it's taught me thus far. I dropped mescaline in the afternoon and began to reconnect with myself. While reflecting on all my lessons, I asked to see what lies before me, what message must be pursued next. Seemingly out of nowhere the perfect movie featuring the exact message I've been looking for popped into existence. It's called the Laws of the Sun: http://www.youtube.com/w...;feature=player_embedded

The movie is really my source for all of these claims. It has pieced together different fragments of truth from every walk of life, the simple message has pierced me.
I've been told from the spirits that DMT and mescaline in combo are the key to a lucid projection of the spirit. Holy balls was that ever true! Of course I ended my day and mescaline trip with a visit to the DMT hyperspace, and this time it was more vivid and eternal than ever before. I reflected on the messages from the movie and the ability that DMT has to illuminate this existence carried the idea to a whole new realization.

Please watch the movie, you'd probably love it even if it doesn't convince you of the same ideas it did for me. I'd be interested in your input, a1pha.

Well, I have to say that I am more than a little entertained by this exchange of views. What it reinforces for me is the vigilance of the Nexus community (thank you benzyme and A1pha) in keeping the ever-growing community of Nexians to maintain a focus on keeping the scientific foundation strong, bringing clear reason forward, while appreciating the beauty and transformative nature of this work.

I recognize your viewpoint, it's a holistic one, which isn't incorrect, per se..
every bit of matter contains some form of vibrational energy, but this isn't a living process as we know it, it's just a state of being. I honestly don't know of any inorganic form that creates an organic molecule such as dmt. dmt is directly produced from organic molecules.

and I do acknowledge that our star, the sun, is integral in living processes. there's no denying that. equally important is the magnetic flux of the earth's inner core, and gravity.

Forgive me, but I do not find a cartoon with angelic voices claiming knowledge of the inner working of the Sun to be a credible source when we're talking about metabolic pathways or the definition of life. This is chemistry and physics, not religion class.

Again, if you want to continue this conversation, Icon, I ask you to cite reliable information. This is a DMT forum with a strong emphasis on facts and reason.

Thank you.

Then don't watch it or listen to me, but how disrespectful of you to discredit something you haven't even seen. Yea it's a romanticized, japanese animated movie. Sorry it wasn't more specific to your taste.

Read the book if that's more your style http://www.happy-science...n/87-the-laws-of-the-sun
Their website cites their sources and elaborates more on the science.

I've been browsing the site you shared for a while, and I just want to point out that it's a religious/mystic site, the name "Happy Science" is completely misleading. There's nothing wrong with mysticism and spirituality, and whichever conclusions people reach in that sense. But they should not call it "science". There's no science in that page, it's a religious group with a membership button that addresses you to their nearest temple.

And their ideas are pretty familiar, but I have to say that the continuous mentioning of "The Truth" with capitals really turns me off. Also, claims like this:



This is wildly off topic. Someone was making a legit question that demands specific answers (about naturally ocurring forms of DMT/tryptamines), and the thread should not be derailed towards mysticism and spiritual theories. There are other places in the forums to debate these.

I normally do not partake in disagreements over the internet, but I would like to point out that the burden of proof is on you, not him. You are claiming that rocks are life forms. This is a sharp contradiction to the science we know and practice. If we are to take your claim seriously, you must provide scientific evidence that rocks are, indeed, life forms.

Alan Watts, famous philosopher entertaining the idea of rocks/minerals holding consciousness:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBlBuAard6s

Yea, it's very different than the way we think of plant or animal or human life, but it's still matter holding energy and the potential to become. Perhaps it was wrong to suggest that rocks themselves produce dmt, but through millions of years of their life cycle, could transform and become different elements and metals that were necessary in the evolution of plants and animals that brought us to the current, highest levels of consciousness that we know of.

Benzyme's right, it's a very holistic viewpoint that might not be interesting to the very defined physical scientists.

I love Alan Watts...like absolutely, full-on 110% mancrush.

However...this is NOT scientific evidence for your argument (nor is anything else you have posted). A1pha has already quoted the attitude to you, which you seemed to either not understand or ignore, so let me present it again and then elaborate on it.



The context here is unquestionably a scientific one. You posting a video of Alan Watts, as great as he is, for the purpose of this discussion, is little more than an example of you posting "what 'someone said'". Similarly, your earlier video is also an unreliable source.

Please adhere to the attitude (I'm not talking about being nice to people or not being argumentative, but to the points on quality discussions). For the purposes of this debate, that would mean scientific papers that show why science considers rocks/crystals/etc. as living entities, given what benzyme has presented re: metabolism, amino acid, etc. You may consider this your last warning.

This is the open discussion forum... I've never claimed to be a professional posting facts here, that would be silly. I'm not writing a paper here to convince you, it's a neat idea that can't be DISPROVEN, so moderate away, but I'm not going to censor my respectful thoughts in an open discussion forum... If I were making wild claims in the tek section telling everyone to go grab 500grams of granite and mix it with all your HCL and drink it, then yea I'd understand an attitude adjustment.

But if the idea just isn't suited for your precepts, then simple move on... I'm not trying to convince you so don't feel threatened.

I even said that Alan Watts was merely entertaining the idea, he isn't an expert on it either and doesn't KNOW or have PROOF, give him some slack.

It's not about convincing or not convincing...it's about adhering to the standards of this community. You have been challenged to present scientific evidence. If you can, feel free to post it. If you can't do so, just admit it.

There's room for metaphysical discussion in the realm of DMT. Stop hogging the internet. The proof for me was the DMT trip that followed the videos and articles I'd read. No, I can't recreate that for you in your mind, buddy. Maybe in the next dimension.

This isn't a thread about how you encountered an entity while under the influence of DMT. This is you claiming that rocks and crystals are alive, despite the fact that they do not meet the scientific criteria of "life".

As to hogging the internet...the Nexus has standards that we adhere to, as multiple moderators have now pointed out to you. If you don't like it, feel free to go somewhere else. If you continue this argument, you'll receive a vacation from the Nexus that will ensure you have plenty of time to do so.

hello Icon,

i think your taking this the wrong way. No one is having a dig at you, but what they are saying, is that the Nexus is based on solid facts, not opinions or conjecture.

i think its been said before that the Nexus is not a free for all like face book. Nexians are trying to create something special here and it needs to be based on facts. Saying you cant disprove it is just silly, if it cant be proved then maybe your topic would be better suited to the "Through the looking glass" forum.

It would be a shame to get yourself banned because of a situation that seems to be a case of crossed wires.

Let me formally contradict myself then, rocks and crystals do not meet the scientific criteria of life. Now that we're on the same page, you can put your stick away. Try not to miss the point.

I like your quote, very true.
“You can get help from teachers, but you have to learn a lot by yourself, sitting alone in a room.”