Ok so I'm basically looking for an RC which has NO body load. If there's any body load at all, it needs to be very very minimal or nearly unnoticeable. A euphoric body high is fine. I believe there is a big difference in body high and body load. Generally the second is much more unpleasant. The second characteristic needs to be visuals. This chem needs to be absolutey mind blowing visually. Euphoria, mental insight/introspection, or any other similar effects are a plus, but not absolutely necessary. The visual aspect is a must and the more intense, the better.

I know some people say you need to "pay the price" to have a FULL psychedelic experience and that body load is just part of it. I'm sure that is true with specific chems but I'm looking for one where that doesn't apply. I tend to disagree with that anyways because I've had quite a few amazingly clean feeling, clear headed trips that blew me away visually. This is hard for me to find nowadays, so I'm reaching out for suggestions.

So please feel free to list the chem or chems that you know of which come with no significant body load, yet can be incredibly intense visually. A "mind fuk" , deep mental insight and introspection, and other qualities are fine. Just list all of it's qualities with the name of the chem. Looking for a new clean RC to broaden my horizons.

LSD?

Please be aware of the inherent danger of RCs, with possible fatal mislabeling even from trustable sources, unknown long term effects and toxicity, etc. I suggest in the very least you get some reagents like marquis etc and read my signature link for color results.

Your thread seems very superficial, you seem to want a "pleasant drug" and there is no mention of knowing the potential dangers, there is no talk of what you can gain from these experiences to improve your life and of those around you, etc etc. Please check this thread: https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=25363

Lastly, this seems like an awefully self-centered thread with little space for community development. Please consider turning this discussion into something for everybody, not just to answer your questions.

"Cleanest" compounds I've had experience with that don't fit in the classic psychedelic category, are:

4-AcO-DMT
AMT
5-MeO-AMT
DOB - Body load is very manageable, psychedelic doses are comfortable at 1-3mg
25I-NBOMe - "Cleaner" body load than DOB, not very noticeable for me at 500ug to 1.5mg

^those are all 5ht antags..therefore they are all "classical" psychedelics.

2CB

Hows about Ayahuasca....the "healthy" and comparatively short lasting body load?

Ayahuasca or even pharmahuasca are far more visual than any RC and also not anywhere near as toxic..

I took 35mg of 2ci once and it was quite visual...came with a 2 hour long horrible, terrible body load at the start however, since I found Ayahuasca I have retired from RC use.

I wasn't using the term classical, I used the term classic in the sense of the common psychedelics being used in the west. None of the ones I listed are as common as LSD, psilocybin mushrooms, DMT, or mescaline.

How about high dose vaped dmt? The most unimaginable visuals and very little bodyload. If you are dead cert on an Rc though i'd recommend 25b NBOMe. Tbh what you are looking for sounds exactly like 25b imo.

Since no ones already mentioned it, 4-ho-met i find to be a very gentle tryptamine. I've found it to be the least nauseating tryptamine, that gets plenty visual at doses where the mind/body is less affected.

While i disagree with the idea of finding the "cleanest feeling" RC's that are plenty visual without much body load/nausea i can see where it could be useful, but only occasionally. Like as a social psychedelic used occasionally for a more recreational type experience. An occasional recreational experience, which is healthy if you keep it in balance with the ones that promote individual growth.

So long as your not just trying to find a fun/non psychologically challenging party drug to avoid having to face the issues the more challenging ones will present. IMHO that does not exist, and is an unhealthy/borderline dangerous way to choose/use psychedelics. Like if you think its benign/easy, and catches you off guard in a bad set/setting.

They all will given time, no matter what the psychedelic. And while many may disagree here, i think "easy" psychedelics are more prone to abuse. In part due to as your tolerance shoots up from overuse, you can keep dosing higher and higher without having to deal with what a classical or more difficult psych would throw your way, something difficult but ultimately useful. Something that requires/forces cessation of use to integrate. IMHO one of the most important things psychedelics can offer. And abusing RC/any psychedelics is just downright crazy imho. Just because it feels easy and nice doesn't mean it can't be physically dangerous, or a psychological disaster waiting to happen. Not to imply you are going are/will abuse them at all, just a warning based on my opinion/experience.

Personally I find the less deep, more recreational substances to be of less value for some of the reasons that The Day Tripper outlined, but also just because I feel I don't get as much out of them. What is the point in a fancy light show if there is no meaning behind it? I am starting to feel this way about the 2C compounds I have experimented with, lots of form, but little substance. I'm going to start experimenting with mescaline in the coming weeks to see if it has what I feel the 2c's (that I have sampled) lack... From what i hear it should hit the nail on the head

Purges i think mescaline would be more in line. The 2c's for me also lack much depth, and i dont seem to get much out out of them either. I could see how they got popular among the masses, which in turn got them federally banned, but they are seemingly a "light show" like you said. And I also agree with Daytripper, you summed it up very well.

I think 25I could be what youre looking for, havent tried the other nbomes but this one felt really really clean to me at least.

Less body load than lsd even and the trip was actually quie dee for a 2c analog.

Sure 2c-e is also very deep(alot deeper than 25i) but it has a terrible body load that most peolpe cant stand.

Of the NBOMe's (the only psychedelic RC's I've done, I haven't tried too many), 25I is what you are looking for. Very clean, very easy body load. These one's are funny, it seems almost no matter how deep you go with them you are never really TOO impaired. It was so unintrusive that I could almost ignore it... which is good and bad... they all seem to give a psychoanalytical clarity to the thought process, a reflective thing in which it is very easy to work through personal problems, I just recently on 25C did a large volume of personal work on rather painful stuff in my psyche, family problems, how my desire to have my dad love me has held me down and kept me depressed (long story but he's basically a narcissist), and lots of stuff about how destructive capitalism is and how hurtful and anti-human it is, and upon this I forged a wonderful new perspective on my relationship with my lovely wife! I realized (well, stated to myself) how she is the ONLY person I could have such conversations with a feel so comfortable with and pure unconditional love for and from her... all while playing guitar. The music was the vehicle for all this really hard and necessary work, and each time I would dredge up something painful instead of crying or getting angry I would simply play it away... working my emotional pain out with music! I thought I'd done that before, but I was just soaking in it with the music... this was really exorcising it through the music and it was amazing.

That being said I dont find them to be very "spiritual", they don't even touch that (for me so far at least). It's all self-work and interpersonal relationship medicine... but then isn't that the foundation for a healthy spirituality? Sometimes that NEEDS to be focused on, it was for me at this point in my life... I had been focusing on the BIG questions (you know, DMT questions ) and neglecting my personal work. That all depends on where YOU are in your life right now.




Oh and RE: purges and mescaline - Mescaline is by far the most spiritually deep, psychologically cleansing, and visually impressive phenethylamine I've had the pleasure of tasting. It is the grandfather of all of those, and I feel on the NBOMe's that I've tried (never had a 2C yet) that it is an artist in the school of mescaline, but not the master like mescaline itself. There is no comparison really. But I still find wonderful things in those analogues (as I outlines above), they still have their utility, and in a perfect world it would be an area of keen study searching the databanks of the analogues for useful information.
But still, no real comparison to the utter richness of mescaline... although this has me wondering what a mix of 25C and mescaline would be like... probably amazing. some purists may think that that is sacreligious but I don't think grandfather cactus would be mad!

Endless, I didn't mean for it to come off superficial. I was just looking for advice on the issue from a knowledgeable community. There's a couple reasons I asked the questions and phrased things the way I did. I'm completely aware of the dangers of individual RC's and have all the reagents needed to determine to the best of my knowledge that what I'm getting is what I believe it to be. I probably should have said something about the most likely dangers of RC use but I just got the impression from speaking with people in chat and viewing other posts in this section of the forum, that most people here already understand the inherent dangers involved with ingesting specific chems. Will make sure to mention the dangers involved to the best of my knowledge next time though.

Also apologize that it came off self centered to you. I needed some advice from members who have some extensive experience with RC's. I guess I didn't see it as self centered because I've run across a lot of people looking for something very similar to what I described in the topic. I figured any input I got would help others who were also interested and the thread got even more posts than expected before I could get back to check it. I'm always looking for new amazing possibilities with RC's, and although I didn't list the specifics of what I would ideally be looking for from an experience because the question was asked for my friend's benefit for the most part....I'm always looking for much more than pleasantness and light shows when I'm going into an experience lol. I love taking myself very deep metally, learning and taking in everything the chem has to offer at the time, and using psychedelics as tools for emotional and spiritual growth, among other things. I'd also love to discuss what we can gain from these chems to help better our lives and help those around us. I just needed some chems to talk about first.

Here is my main reason for posting this, however I would by lying if I said I wasn't pretty interested myself as well. I have a close friend who I have fed very strong LSD to. He's eaten doses of mushrooms that would be pretty scary to me. He's done most of the traditional psychedelics and always complains about two things. He says he literally never sees any visuals. He wants so bad to understand the visual aspect of psychedelcs, and has eaten a lot of the traditional psychs and claims to have never seen a thing. No OEV's or CEV's at ALL. He keeps trying different things because there are a lot of mental aspects of traditional psychs and a few RC's that he likes.

He also just absolutely can't stand the body load associated with a lot of psychedelics. He'll get so caught up in thinking about the body load that I've seen him start to have a "bad" mental trip a couple times and I feel his pain. I've personally gotten used to the body load associated with most traditional psychs and can deal with it, but I agree that it sure is nice to have a lengthy, visual experience where I can come out feeling like I've also learned some things with minimal to no body load throughout the experience. It reminds me of the first time I ever got clean and really strong LSD.

Wow guys thanks for all the replies.

DayTripper, I understand everything you're saying and I'm definitely not looking for a fun and easy RC to try to find ways to escape what a more psychologically challenging psychedelic would throw my way. I'm actually actively seeking out ways to challenge myself more mentally, and to learn as much as possible about myself and this existence and beyond through psychedelics...a lot of which have some unpleasant aspects at times. I agree it would probably be more prone to abuse as well, but we're looking to use it only ccasionally and in a more social setting (camping with a few friends) where we are looking to explore ourselves and each other a bit, but aren't trying to go to space, be immobile, and experience parallel realities and such lol.

Purges, deep down I definitely have the most respect for the entheogens that have shown me the most or led me to learn new things about myself, this existence, etc. The ones that have allowed me to transcend consciousness. However, that doesn't mean I'd write everything off that hasn't taken me there yet. Even if said chem doesn't have that potential, it might have purpose and different potential in a different set and setting to benefit people in other ways.

DeMenTed, I personally experiment with medium-high dose DMT once a day or so. Sometimes a little less often, sometimes more. This specific friend of mine is somewhat scared of DMT he says. Although, I'm not sure if he's really scared of the DMT, or the possibility he would smoke it and be let down. He's never done it and we're waiting till I get my GVG (which is on the way). I want him to be able to smoalk it the most efficient way possible and get the most he can from it.

Eliyahu, very very soon and we'll be having our first Ayahuasca sessions. And yes, I found 2C-I and especially 2C-E to be very intense and even learned from it, but the body load can be pretty horrid. Especially with 2C-E.

AlimunimFoilRobots, that's the post I was looking for. Certain things must happen for a reason. I know it might have come off like I was looking for an easy, party psychedelic or something but that's not the case at all. I was simply looking for something that gave very little body load, nice visuals, and mental clarity. I'm still looking to learn and use it as a tool for self growth or to work on and process certain issues in life. What you said about it's reflective properties really has me intrigued. Can you explain the differences you've personally experienced in 25I, 25C, and 25B?

Synergy I think I understood that you weren't looking for an "easy" trip, just one that is less mental and still very visual. Well, the NBOMe's that I've tried don't completely fit that bill but they do more than any other psychedelic I have tried. They still give a very psychedelic state of mind, it's just that it isn't anywhere as in-your-face parallel universes or full sublimation into a pure fractal visual field. There has never been the slightest fear that I would "lose myself" in it, which has been a real fear regarding something like, say, pharmahuasca. In fact, nothing has shown me pure existential terror like pharma - but I've still gotten amazing things out of my pharma experiences. I don't get strong mental looping from any of them and it doesn't get close to visions. It does lend an extreme psychoanalytical clarity to the thought-process, allowing the user to get a good look at the panorama of a concept especially how it relates to ones own life, and lots of self-therapy. Like I mentioned in the mini-report in this thread on 25C, I had a really nice experience doing intensive self-therapy which helped me to see so many little dark corners of my psyche that needed the "cobwebs" cleared out and lots of things in my life to be happy about. There was also a large volume of work done on the direction of my life as of now and where I want it to go. How I want to dedicate my life to the end of this system, particularly, and how I can make that a constructive process and not repeat the destructive habits of this society. But it was all under my control somehow, or at least it wasn't going to go anywhere that I wasn't willing to go.

Visually they are all beautiful but I most recommend 25I. It is much more impressionistic and flowing, for example it is the only psychedelic that has given me stereotypical "trippy" stuff like the numbers on a clock melting off, and these phosphorescent "clouds" of magenta and blue/purple wafting into the room. It has much more water-based, feminine or "flowing" attributes to the visuals. 25C is much more electric and masculine, quite a bit like mescaline but somehow it seems quite a bit more "basic" than mescaline. The fractals are not as complex, but somehow they are at the same time. They are more "frilly" than mescaline but with less depth. It's almost like mescaline with not as good of graphics. It gives more perspective on the actual holographic nature of sight, with the lines and polygons that make up an object becoming exceptionally clear. On either substance there is a very strong inclination to absurd giddy laughter at almost anything, and I got an awful headache simply from laughing too much... but how wonderful THAT is! They seem to have the ability (at high doses) to induce visions, but they are really quite strange. Here's one: basically it was just this, I saw in my minds eye a rather old white crotchety man giving a lecture on the relevence on speaches to books and their relevence to the modern reader. It was the weirdest, most specific vision I've ever had. It seems meaningless over a text message but it was actually really on-point. It was a great lecture. I have a trip report on 25C on the 25I thread with more details of that, if you want to read that as well.

OK I'm about to pass out so I'll continue this discussion tomorrow! good night!

Thanks for explaining yourself, Synergy

What about vapped DMT/oral DMT, did your friend try that? Can't get too much more visual than that. I feel nausea sometimes with ayahuasca/oral dmt during some moments but even that is gone at some point and I woud not call it body load imo



Edit: just read you said youll be trying ayahuasca soon. Have more of it brewed in case you want to drink more if you dont get where you want, or also a pipe loaded with DMT.

Endlessness, I also would highly recommend DMT or ayahuasca (or an analogue). There is nothing like vaporized DMT as far as complex visuals, it basically stands alone (as far as I am experienced). The only thing is that Synergy said his friend was wanting something without too extreme mental effects which we all know DMT does not fit the bill for that. If anything the fractalization of the thought process is more boggling than the fractalization of the visual process, to me at least. With vaporized DMT it is more than watching the fractal nature of existence or being inside of form-constants, it is becoming these things yourself. But, synergy, please correct me if I am wrong about him not wanting a very radical consciousness-shifting experience? Or is it that he doesn't mind that but doesn't get visuals usually and wants something extremely visual? In that case, DMT all the way. DMT+harmala(s) even more all the way.

Bufotenin. The most visual of all the tryptamines i´ve tried. There is some body load at the beginning but it´s almost void of psychological effects.