I thought I would post this, just to keep the information out there for anyone out there looking to know more about amanita muscaria mushrooms and what to be cautious of.
I had taken two of my friends with me about 30 miles out of town to use some amanitas with me. I have used them several times prior to this and thought it would be alright if they joined me as well, but just to be on the safe side I gave them half the dose of what I normally take as a high dose. I took a 28 gram dose, while I gave each of them 14 grams each. I explained thoroughly about the doses they would be taking and also that they would not want to move around a lot, as I had previously had slight loss of motor control during one of my previous experiences, also explain about possible negative effects that could occur, like nausea.
I felt confident in giving them a high dose of 14 grams each and they were comfortable with it as well. One of the friends that was with me was an avid psychedelic user like myself that I had no worries of at all, as he had been using psychedelics for over 20 years. My other friend was still somewhat new to psychedelics as he had only smoked nn,DMT about 7 or 8 times and had used pharmayahusca once. Since he had used DMT though, I was not worried about him either though.
After taking our doses, we migrated to the places we had found for one another to be alone at. After about 8 hour’s duration, I began to vomit and almost instantly felt like I had vomited out my experience, as it completely ended right after that. I had some deep thoughts accompanied by closed-eye visuals (that I did not pay much attention too), and overall I would say I enjoyed the time to just let my thoughts progress amongst themselves. I returned to the small fire we had made (in the desert, so no chance the fire would spread), and sat patiently waiting for my friends to return from their experiences.
Soon after, maybe like an hour or so after I was relaxing by the fire, one of my friends made their way back to the fire, but he was stumbling back. I asked if he was alright, then he stopped and stared me down, as I thought to myself that he must still be experiencing the effects. He wandered off a little ways after that, without saying anything. After that, I kept a close eye on him, making sure he did not hurt himself wandering around on the mushrooms, as I had said before it could impair motor control. I did not want to say anything else to him though, because I know that sometimes it does feel good to just move or walk around while you are feeling the effects of them.
As I was watching him though, I saw him fall a couple times. At first it was alright because he just kind of stumbled, like someone does when they are drunk. After a little while though, I saw him go straight down and almost hit his head. At this point I knew I had to step in to prevent him from injuring himself, even if that meant interrupting his experience. I went to him and told him to sit down and just let the mushrooms do their thing, then he began starring me down again. I continued to tell him this until he attempted to walk away from me and fell once more; luckily I was there to catch him.
I set him on the ground and told him to stay sitting down and explained to him what was going on, just to let him know. He agreed with me to stay sitting down, so I walked back to the fire. As I did, I heard him get up just as I got back to the fire and fall again, but this time he did hit his head. I then went to him and made him stay sitting down to prevent further injury, but he began to fight back against me. Every time he would manage to stand up after that, he would go right back down on his head. After 3 times of this, I subdued him holding him to the ground and continuously explaining my reasoning to him for doing so.
Around this time my other friend walked back to the fire after coming down, and I explained what was going on. My friend I had subdued at this time had become incoherent and was not responding to what we were telling him. He continued to try to fight free from me, but I was too worried about him hurting himself to let him go.
After about another hour of this, he calmed down and appeared to fall asleep. I was very relieved as it was very difficult for me to keep him subdued. As soon as I got up, he did the same thing behind me and hit his head again. I subdued him again, this time my other friend began checking his head for injuries and examining his pupils.
I knew how long this could have lasted, given the longest time period of duration report that I had read about and informed my other friend as well. He was beginning to become too much to handle though, as I was very exhausted from subduing him and my other friend was unable to do so because of his age. We took him to the hospital soon after that, not because we could no longer subdue him, but because we were worried about his head, and wanted to make sure he didn’t give himself a concussion.
Luckily he was fine, they subdued him and he fell asleep about 30 minutes later. Waking up wondering why he was in the hospital. When I explained the situation to him about what happened, he did not remember any of it, he claimed that he heard my voice, but thought that I was dead and my other friend was dead too. He claimed that he thought that he had to find us, and the people that were with him were not us. He understood what really happened after telling him, but soon after he did tell me that he had a family history of schizophrenia, and I wondered if that were the cause of the violence and force that he used against me and my friend at some points that night.
I told him that I did not think it was a good idea to do any psychedelics, after hearing about his family history, as I have heard about schizophrenic episodes being caused by psychedelic usage. He has not used and does not plan on using psychedelics because of this reason. I think it is a good idea to assess people that want to experience a psychedelic experience now. I also think that it may be a good idea for other to adopt this as well, even if it is a close friend, I think you should be aware of their family mental history if you are using psychedelics together.

sounds nothing like schizophrenia..sounds like the effects of muscimol-a deleriant. Some people are far more sensitive to these substances than others. He may have just gotten a much larger dose for his body than you or your friend. That is just my opinion.

I have heard of this happening lots of times with amanitas at a certain dose to people I have spoken with, none of them schizophrenic. If you read the literature this sort of thing seems to be the norm for high dose amanita. I think the shamans that use them are trained well about this and so know how to navigate these states. People say it is like dreaming while awake at that level, which would explain your freinds experiences.

Not that I think amanitas are bad, but they are deleriants.

I wasn’t saying it was schizophrenia, I was saying that he has a family history of schizophrenia that I did not know about prior. I was simply saying that maybe the cause for his outburst was due to the fact of his family history, I could be wrong, but that was just a theory of mine I had. I know that amanitas are a deleriant, but this went way past that, he had very serious episodes of violence toward me and my friend. While I did attempt to calm him down, and explain to him his state, and many times I told him to just let the mushrooms do their thing (referring to him not to fight the effects but just let them affect him the way they want). I know that some people are also more sensitive to muscimol as well, but all the literature that I read on the subject never explained what occurred that night. He acted in a way I had never experienced or read about (at least regarding amanitas). Too much happened to explain all the details of how he was acting, the main point I had wanted to make was just to be cautious of peoples mental history prior to letting them use a psychedelic substance. My biggest regret I had was coming down before him, because at least if I was still in the state as well I could have communicated to him better and guided him through a little better (as I had to do with him during pharmayahusca).
He had had a similar outburst while on pharmayahusca, but I didn’t think much of it (because I was able to get to him and see that he was being distracted and becoming distraught from the visions that he was having, and I was able to pull him away from them and show him that he was just being distracted by visions). Two outbursts, on two different substances are what mainly drew me to the conclusions of his family history affecting him during his experiences.

Oh and I do not think aminitas are bad either, nor any natural psychedelic substance. I think people should just be aware of things before hand (like past mental history and family mental history, as these can surface during a psychedelic experience) and know what they are taking is most important.

eclipsek20 wrote:



Personally I don't believe amanitas are meant to be consumed in large amounts on their own, I know a lot of people do it but it has been my experince that a very,very low dose of sun dried amanita combined with another entheogen such as DMT or psilocybin is way more satisfactory and also a safer/less toxic experience overall.

Not trying to criticize your style of entheogen taking, just offering a way less rugged altrnative for your consideration..

I personally perfer to take higher doses of a single substance by itself, that way the experience is not clouded by one or the other and because I don't like to play around with low doses that rarely have an effect.

Not saying there is anything wrong with taking low doses, to each his own.

Also to consider; the huge variability of potency between mushrooms even when picked from the same patch.

This is why grinding to homogenize potency is a big recommendation.

Also; try recycling your urine to greatly intensify and purify the effects of any dose... look up urine therapy if you are squeamish.


Blessings.

on the schizophrenic note, i feel as though psychedelics can be used as a form of therapy to help even the most delusional to understand "reality" and be non violent, even if they think theyre a turnip




jk bout that turnip thing

Personally i think you should assume responsability for YOURSELF, and that means trip alone if necessary. The minute you start adding friends in the mix is the moment you start getting into the who helps who shit if something goes wrong. What if your friend seriously injured himself.You would be to blame wether you think so or not.

Think seriously about these implications and never offer Your stash to your friends, let them be responsible for their own doings. Peace.

yes, personal accountability safeguards others, even if they are close friends. when someone thinks they are being torn apart by demons you cant honestly expect them not to be honest to police/medical personnel, which could land the person who gave the substance a cell in prison. worse yet, if the person hurt another/ died, you bet there will be a full investigation that would end up making you a very sorry nexian.

to get around this situation, everyone should acquire their own substances and be familliar with them before joining up in a group setting. this limits thier actions to their responsibility as they decided to acquire and take said substances. so even if you were tripping with them on yours or their supply, you wont be accountable for the person who brought their own substances.

entheogenic doses should be avoided in group situations.

I don't play around low doses either..that's actually not exactly what I was recommending.
I know my choice of word probably could have been better.. so my apologies on that.

Combining amanita and DMT falls in the not low dose experience catagory.

My point was that you can get a really, really intense effect from combining small amounts of Amanita with other entheogens. It's a work smarter not harder approach to Amanita taking. No reason to put yourself through possible physical agony for no reason. As far as I am aware Amanita by themselves, even at high doses, do not provide any worthwhile visionary experience, unless you fall asleep on them.

The Amanita experience is not "clouded" by the addition of other entheogens in the same way that Harmine and DMT do not cloud eachother.

The combination of 2grams of psilocybe and 1 gram of amanita or of Amanita and DMT ...visualy speaking is so much more intense than Amanita on it's own could ever be.

When it comes to entheogenic use I am all about result. Taking a combination of Amanita and other entheogens does not result in a clouded effect...it results in a profound visionary experienced that is unsurpassed by most other substances.

It is also worthwhile to mention that large doses of Amanita Muscaria could potentaily be fatal..... according to wikipedia anyway.

Here are a few of my experiences with Amanita and DMT

Amanita and DMT 1

Soma Hyperspace

to me that seems like saying LSA should only be used in small doses as an admixture, because based on limited personal experience, one couldn't get a real entheogenic LSA experience on its own.

you mean a psychedelics dose? Tobacco and alcohol can be used entheogenically..so can coca.

Entheogenic is not a term that relates to how hard you are tripping. It is a very subjective thing. Low doses could be just as entheogenic for one person as higher doses are for another..it is all subjective. It is about how you use and relate to it that makes it entheogenic.

Parshvik Chintan wrote:




LSA is a different story, I have definitely had full on psychedelic experiences via fresh off the vine morning glory seeds.....MG's are very visual on their own when taken as fresh.

LSA and Amanita combined is actually quite nice as well.

as jamie said, entheogenic is not about dose, its about the experience giving a sensation of inner divinity. even if the plant used is tea, if the context is a japanese tea ceremony then yes, its an entheogen. however, obviously a potent psychedelic yields much more insight and psychoactive evolution than tea... visionary is a better word to describe a "heroic dose" of an entheogen

on lsa...
lsa can be fully visionary, however i find it supplments/compliments other entheogens without taking a heroic dose


from what eliyahu says about amanitas id say they are worth a shot at a threshold dose as an admixture to a mild dose of a plant psychedelic. it seems that it yields a visionary experience without the body load of a traditional "heroic dose"

eli, i have had extremely visual and entheogenic experiences on LSA on nothing else.
i think you missed my point entirely..

I do agree that certain psychedelics can be used as a form of therapy for certain mental issues, but I feel it needs to be evaluation thoroughly before consideration. I am actaully studying this area in particular at the moment, of understanding more about the different forms of schizophrenia and learning which ones ayahuasca or DMT in particular could help to improve on.

I completely agree with you. I usually always trip by myself, when I went to the desert to do the aminitas I had orginally planned to go by myself, but my friends kind of invited themselves. Since they have always felt very mild to me (compared to DMT or pharmayahuasca) I thought it would not be that bad. I did mention though, that we were all in charge of ourselves during our experiences, when I said that we had each found places by ourselves. Each of us walked very far from one another so we would not disturb each other during our experiences. But yes, I too think "you should assume responsability for YOURSELF, and that means trip alone if necessary." But I also have to say that I am very glad I was there that night, or my friend would have seriously injured himself. That will be the last time I do aminitas with someone else though. DMT I don't have a problem with doing with inexperienced people, mainly just to guide them through once, then after that I stay out of there way and think they should be left to their own. I do always keep myself around for people in case they need someone to talk to, cause I have found that it helps people when they have someone to talk to. DMT I also think is a good starting point for using a psychedelic substances, mainly because of the intensity and duration of DMT vapors I have found is very suitable for first time users that are unaware of it.

I can understand the point of view you are coming from, but when taking DMT I am not wanting to see visions or be distracted by all the other things that come up, not do I want to make the aminitas more visually profound. Aminitas do what they do, just as DMT does its own as well. During deep states of DMT I have found it is a very big distraction to be stuck on visual or auditory things. Things such as this (visual and auditory) are senses of the brain trying to make sense of what is going on, although I am aware of the fact that we only see a small fraction of things that are around us at all times, which is what the visual could be, but I would rather focus on nothing personally (I don't know a better way to explain my approach).
My first time on savlia for example, my first psychedelic experience I had ever had, I had no expectations and thought of nothing before hand and I had a very profound experience that is hard to put into words as it was only visually stimulating at the beginning then soon after I had no visuals, but the time when the visuals had ceased was the most profound part of the experience. The next time I did salvia I did have expectations and thought something similair would occur, so just as I thought, so it became. This same thing occurred on DMT when I began use. I also became very distracted on hyperspace for a long period of time, before I remember about the fact of being distracted by such things. Only when I was able to remember this is when I became more able to make the visuals cease (although they always occur at the beginning, I have learned to move past them) and began to experience and analyze the profound non-visual state more, although I still cannot put any word or describe it in any way.