I love the idea of making a thread on Cimora, does anyone know anything about it? I remember reading a few articles that i dont remember the origins of now, but yes it is basically the brewing of san pedro, with other admixtures, similiar to the way ayahuasca is brewed with admixtures.

The admixtures listed inclueded a few datura species, and then a few others that I cannot remember....

I second that we need a thread on cimora.

For some reason when i see, t. spach... or golden torch, i always wonder about it and it looks so cool to me. Apperently it contains mesc but in low concentrations but has a bunch of other alks that may be interesting in combo with traditional trichocereus.

Anyways, im looking forward to hearing more about Cimora

What I find interesting is the nasal use of high beta-carboline Mapacho tea and possible yopo use at Chavin prior to dosing the Cimora (where are found snot-nosed figures).

"Sometimes the San Pedro is used in conjunction with other psychoactive plants, such as coca, tobacco, Brugmansia and Anadenanthera" -from
The Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Substances
by Richard Rudgley
Little, Brown and Company 1998

Here's a little potentiator post I compiled that may be helpful with modern Cimora.


Confirmed or Promising Potentiators list:

Yohimbe and Kola nut - may increase potency by 25%:
"...tried this combination with 75 mg doses of mescaline, which is a low dose for SWIM... (but) when mixed with yohimbe and kola nut, the effects are much stronger, more like 100 mg of mescaline." -69ron

Brugmansia

Purple onion

Coffee - potentiates more than Harmalas.

Datura stramonium - 3 seeds for heightened euphoria: potentiates more than harmalas.

Aldehyde Dehydrogenase Inhibitors (such as Calcium carbimide*) greatly potentiate.
"Take... 1/4 the dose you would normally take" - twister, on the combo w/ a prescription strength A.D.I.
*other A.D.I. sources may include Kudzu extract and soy isoflavones, but these may be too weak. Durian fruit has presented itself as an alternate possibility here.

Filtered Black pepper tea -
"Piperidine should have no impact at all if this theory is wrong. If it’s right, it should potentiate mescaline quite a bit. I have never heard of anyone trying filtered black pepper tea with mescaline. For it to work you’ll need to use about 10 grams of black pepper in 1 cup of hot water. Filter out all the solids. Take it at the same time as the mescaline. If it works, expect it to be up to twice as potent and way more mind altering." -69ron

Hordenine (Citrus Aurantium Extract) - a highly selective substrate for MAO-B; may potentiate by competitive inhibition. May also be found in Bridgesii cactus.

Melatonin -
"I have heard a report that Melatonin ( available in most Health food stores ) will potentiate the effects of ingesting mescaline. The preferred and most effective method is to take 10-15mg before bed, a week in succession before the trip. If this is not practical, 20-25mg may be taken at least 12 hours before the actual trip. The later method works but is not as efficient as the week long method. It is said that the "7 day boost" used in conjunction with beta-carbolines results in an ultra-euphoric boost." - The Wizard

Caapi - potentiates.

LSA - "Mystery Man Tea" - sounds interesting but more like LSwhatever potentiation than a Cimora brew...

Finally; Bridgesii itself is said to potentiate other cacti (San Pedro and Peruvian Torch) when it is taken before them; allowing much more of the Mescaline to be used (90%!) rather than be excreted unchanged.


Blessings.

Hordenine,

That is what i read was in golden torch, and even in san pedro, and a few of the other related trichocereus.

Everytime i have used the cacti i find myself drinking massive amounts of cofee. I love the way the two combine with eachother, and honestly the coffe now is a MUST HAVE for any cacti experience. I had heard of house recomending this combo and i can vouch that there are definetly synergystic effects.

Also smoking mj on the cactus, seems to have much more of an potentiating effect than it does with other psychedelics, (at least for me).

Very interesting to hear that they possibly combined yopo snuff with cactus, or used it ritually in conjunction with each other. I think i am going to try this out, the yopo on the cactus.

None of this really applies to adding anything directly to the brew, it would be really nice to know which plants were used traditionally in cimora and what the benefits or effects of adding each plant were.

Since we are talking about cimora which is the traditional preparation, I will also mention that I tried making my own san pedro MESA (a cloth or table, with objects laid out in a specific manner, in order to represent or amplify certain parts of the experience) and i laid it out in a way that was a combo of the traditional way and a way that was unique to me, and i will say, it felt very right, and i really did feel results from making the mesa.

I used it early on for protection i called on the earth primordial energies represented by my old earthy stones on the right of the table. To protect me from negative thoughts and to help me purge the negativay from my body (which i did very successfully). THen when i moved to phase two, i rearanged the rocks and put the figure of myself in the center, by some very clear translucent white quartz, to ask for pure vision, and at that point vision i recieved! I felt like I had tapped into the universal source of life and knowledge. It was at that point, we saw undeniably, a spaceship appear directly above us, flash some crazy lights, and quickly dissapear. I saw it, my friend saw it too. Right when it appeared I jumped up in disbelief and pointed at it. We both saw the same thing, a flying saucer right there a few thousand feet above us. Anyways, later on, I used the mesa agian to ask for luck and power to be all I can be. After I got done wishing for luck, I went on a walk around the house, and smoked some tobacoo. While smoking I glanced into the rockbed and saw the most resplendantly beautiful agate I have ever seen. I live in an area where a very rare valuable agate forms, but they are extremely rare to find this beautiful. It is excessive in its beauty. Anyways, a few days later I took the rock to the rock shop for appraisal and found out it is worth 200$-500$!!!! Hows that for luck!

Anyways I thought I would share that and I would be very curious to see if anyone else has tried a mesa....Ill definetly be using it again next time

1+ on the coffee here, i drank a nice cup of coffee with milk and sugar last time i had cacti just when the peak was starting to fade abit.

Could just been a low wave but it seemed that the coffee kcked it up again for as long as i could feel the effects of the cofeine.

One thing im trying also now is to mix my resin with forest rx 4x cappi powder, ive read someone here who had done it with great reults, i also added a small pinch of damiana

I read somewhere that harmalas can be really nice with mescaline if you can handle the nausea well, i only used about 15grams of the forest rx caapi which is probably about 100mg or so of harmalas at most.

"Anyways I thought I would share that and I would be very curious to see if anyone else has tried a mesa....Ill definetly be using it again next time"

Yes, with every plant I work with. We have a large permanent one in our ceremony room. I also have a little pouch filled with different beach stones and seaglass I collected one day while sitting in the sand on one of my first san pedro journies. Somehow the energy of that day is in that bag, I have used it to ground myself with other plants as well like ayahuasca.

Cacao synergizes with san pedro similar to coffee, but cacao has a more heart centered energy..less shaky etc than coffee so I prefer that..Im talking whole raw beans. Yerba mate synergizes too.

WESTON LA BARRE, PH.D. mentions Llex guayusa being in a medicine mans tomb in the article "Peyotl and Mescaline" in the Journal of Psychedelic Drugs Vol. 11(1-2) Jan-Jun, 1979.

I wonder if it's a coincidence. Guayusa is a known Ayahuasca additive/pre-dose.


It is also said to be non-jittery... a different form of caffeine + Theobrominic goodness?

Blessings.

PS: Very interesting about the Mesa.

I know they say guayusa is not jittery like other caffine plants..but pesonally I dont know why they say that lol...has not been my experience. Guayusa has some serious kick to it for me..It is too stimulating for me to drink often. Though it does make my dreams really crazy. Probably synergizes well with san pedro.

I personally am very interested in the traditional cimora admixtures..but so little is knows. Just yesterday I came across a very beautiful brugmansia tree in full flower not too far from me..though for now I look but dont touch

cimora is an interesting concept, it would be great to know what plants are traditionally used and why; however, taking all the plants at once compounds nausea and initiates all drugs simultaneously vs dosing during the experience with a faster acting compound/plant.

i see cimora as a pioneering of cactus admixtures however i feel as though timing is essential to maximize the experience, and as such drinking a cup of plants at once wont give the most potent synergizing effects (ie cactus takes a few hours, the other plant drugs may be immediate/ over by the time the cactus is in full swing)
admittedly the point could be to ready oneself for the cactus through these other plants, but mew does not subscribe to this train of though. if anything IMO cactus readies you for other plants.

i feel cactus is much like the FORCE, and something like lsa is the LIGHT
perhaps even the maoi qualities supposed to be present in achuma really do potentiate the ergaloid tryptamines like caapi to chacruna

lsa-

i find i can take a lower dose of cacti (1-1.5 feet) and thrown in some lsa extract or hbwr to have entirely new and potent experiences. i often take lower doses of cacti and use lsa when going to a concert, i find it to be a great way to experience the environment in a whole new way

i absolutely love lsa, but love it more with cacti

DATURA/BRUGMANSIA *small amount* is a great addition to a cactus experience if one is safe about dosing, it often lets one slip into new consciousness (non ordinary realities) alot more seamlessly
i take about a 1/3 - 1/2 leaf fresh, remove the stem and eat the rest, typically this is just above microdose but not engouh to get delerious and sweaty, know your dose by finding your relationship without using it as an admixture first, do datura/ brugmansia alone before trying to add it to the mix. or 3-7 seeds

i add calea zacatechichi to everything! resin of course, the tea is abominable !~ i find that it is like taking a big puff of marijuana except dosent have the potential for paranoia snowballing, it lets me slip into a dream state minutes after ingestion (so i take it 4-5 hours in) and about 5x a dose i would take each night for dreaming purposes

beer is great but trying to get tanked (more than a pint) can lead to prompt emesis. i also find that i will sip on the same beer for a looooooong time on anything cactus until late into the experience


***mushrooms were found to not complement 25I or cactus, IMHO, the body load and the foggy mind werent pleasant, i spent most of the day in my bedroom instead of out in the glorious sun as i had planned, felt kinda sick (not nauseas) but sick until several hours later when the mushrooms wore off

holy crap, a hole page written by teoz/farfromhere

to be taken with salt for sure

oh christ..was it him? haha I did not even notice that!

I feel like deleting that link now to be honest..

i honestly think coatl is often too arrogant, however it seems that many of the plants on his list are subjects of interest here to the nexus. how many of our threads are a biproduct of his effort? for a community so focussed on ego dissolving experiences and entheogenic experiences, its hard to imagine why he is so openly condemned.

if it were not for coatl i would not have known cacti when i did. any benefit of my posting is also a product of his efforts. im a bit tired of the coatl hating.

but then again, i wasnt really into the forum when he was a member, so he may have terrorized everyone with tons of egotistic posting, "blue peruvianus", and his open war with 69ron

To me the psychedelics are the opposite of ego. Any time I see a 'personality' associated with psycedelics, or in fact with any kind of spiritual experience, I'm afraid I tend to write them off instantly. I know nothing of the 'coatl' character mentioned above but the podcast that inspired this thread, I have to say, I didn't make it through. The whole point of psychedelics in my view is to experience things for yourself, not to listen to self-proclaimed experts jibbajabbing about them...

Edited to add a paragraph about gurus, healers, proselytes and psychotherapists alike all trying to assert their control over the experience. Thought the better of it, don't feel the need to bang on about it, but hopefully some will relate to where I was headed with that.

I believe Lemon essential oil is excellent as well... a few drops every couple hours at start (seretonergic nausea avoidance).

Beta-pinene in high levels; a greater 5-ht3 antagonist than Ginger root.


Blessings.

Funny, I remember reading somewhere recently that citrus should be avoided when ingesting cacti. I thought that funny, as the last time I ingested cactus, I had the most amazing experience eating a mandarin.

I'm curious about Ross Heaven and his books. Can anyone tell me if his stuff is worth reading, or if it's just a bunch of new age BS? (not that all new age is BS)

I'm going to try smoking some brugmansia leaf next time I ingest cactus. Seems like the safest way of dosing it, and it sounds like it really has some potential to expand the experience.

"its hard to imagine why he is so openly condemned."

He continued to be given second, third, forth, fifth, 6th chances and still knowly broke the rules like it was all a joke to him..then he was given more chances and did the same thing etc..trav really tried to go out on a limb for him to allow him to be here and still be just did not care or listen it seems. Then, coatl went on evbery opther site he could spreading all kinds of horrible stuff about trav and other people here. He said some really horrible things in some attempt to make himself out to be something great and the nexus just the lowest thing around. I have no respect for him at all.

Also, he copies and pastes things..he is the copy and paster of the internet entheo world. He does this and gives no credit to the origional source and claims it as his research. For that reason I dont like using anything of his as a source because I dont know who is is plagerizing that day.

Now, let this please be the end of the coatl discussion for this thread.

I used lemon and was fine.

Ross havens book "the hummingbirds journey to god" was interesting..but I also found parts of it very boring and wanted to just skip over them. There was a lot of analysis of other peoples experiences etc..not necessarily my thing. It is a book with some useful views on the topic of cacti though..

I really wish that someone would do for cacti what books like "ayahuasca in my blood" have done for ayahuasca.

There is another book called "wizard of the 4 winds" all about san pedro currandismo. Much of it from what I remember is very academic..it is a sort of anthropological work/analysis..but some really good stuff in there as well.

If you are into peyote.."the flowers of wiricuta" is a nice book.

I just ordered "the hummingbird's journey to god" on amazon. I'll check it out and see what I can gain from it. Thanks for the insight.

http://www.elmundomagico.org/huachuma-journeys/

Bottom of the page there it mentions in the areas around iquitos curranderos adding jungle plants like chaliponga and chacruna to san pedro brews.

interesting. I wonder if they are adding some kind of MAOI to the brew, or if the fabled MAOI qualities of achuma are responsible for this? I used to correspond with someone on the Shroomery who used to add caapi to his cactus brews. He said it potentiated the experience, and also made the brew less snotty in consistency.