Before going in depth I think we should split two things here:
1) the public availability of extracting DMT and
2) Welcome area


PUBLIC AVAILABILITY

The thing with the public extraction teks is that the cat is already out of the bag for a long time. If it would not be the DMT-Nexus then people would look it up on other sites, back then there were plenty around and now there are even more.

With giving public access to our refined teks, we can make sure that people not only get the best results but that they also understand safety procedures and set and setting. We tell people why certain things are dangerous and how they should proceed with caution. We also make sure that the end product is a good quality that will not harm the end-user.

Then after that we tell people that with the extraction comes a time where taking the substance will happen and we continue to tell them about set and setting and many other things to think about. This is a pure example of harm reduction.

So by having the teks publicly on the DMT-Nexus we can assert a better quality control and guidance than if it was hidden and people would have to look it up on hipforums for example.


WELCOME AREA

The welcome area is here for a few reasons:
* Quality control in the non welcome area parts. People who have shown to have a genuine interest in the DMT-Nexus are more likely to make quality posts and taking account responsibility than people who randomly visit this site and think they know it all. In the past we have seen plenty of examples of people who make some random post that makes no sense at all and that were even posting things that were very dangerous if followed.

* Outside attacks. In the past we also had attacks on this site, to have a welcome area we make sure that the non welcome area parts will not be hit by any outside attack. Also this is a good way to keep trolls at bay.

* Suppliers. Suppliers cannot sign up on the DMT-Nexus undercover, and then proceed to make a post in the supplier section how great their products are. Of course it is possible that once in a while someone sneaks in, but that takes a lot of time and effort and still a lot of other bad suppliers will not be able to use this site as an advertising medium.


OTHER

Currently with DMT going more and more mainstream it is only natural that more types of people visit the DMT-Nexus, including the type you would rather not have here.

Then there is one thing that is happening not only on the DMT-Nexus but on the entire internet: we get harder and harder. Today, people on the internet use more harsh words as ever, swearing is pretty normal and on places like facebook you will see people insulting each other people just for the fun of it, "it's cool y'know?". The fallout of that is what you see on many sites that were once populated by more genuine people, including the DMT-Nexus.


So that is how I see things evolving and I hope this gave some explanation about why certain things are in place and others not.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

im not sure how and if this will work with something like the nexus where access is limited to users

Also, you will probably trigger a defense mechanism if you crawl too fast, getting yourself temporarily blocked.

And the wiki will be downloadable soon for all who like it, though you need good knowledge about mediawiki to be able to use it.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

thank you for your consideration, im going to start learning about mediawiki in the meantime

Trav - Thank you for taking the time to reply and explain your philosophy in detail. I do fully understand your points above, and I totally "get" where you're coming from. I completely agree with the concepts / approches will help keep the site secure and genuine. A couple questions and concerns still remain for me however:

1.) As oly mon alludes to above, we do nothing to validate a users intentions when accessing wiki information. How much harm reduction are we really imparting by simply providing instructions and cautionary notes to people who may have impure intentions? If one's intentions are not pure there is no amount of cautionary information that will right the wrongs of their ill intentions. Thus, it still feels to me that, in this sense, we are feeding the black market without pursuing accountability.

2.) For those newer members who have nothing but healthy intentions for the information that they acquire from the wiki, we offer them little to foster their new found knowledge. Assume a well-intentioned individual who is working from a tek on the wiki has a list of technical questions around specifics of the tek. He signs up with an account on The Nexus, only to find that he has no access to the very forums that he needs to answer his specific questions. What is he to do now? Continue on his own without further instruction? Go to another site and ask his questions there? Continue on with the tek using his best guess and / or judgement? In any case, it doesn't really seem that we are providing much in the way of harm reduction. We've basically taught a man to build a high powered rocket-ship without offering any technical support. Is this a valid concern or am I way off base here?

To clarify my comments above I'd like to say that my point is not so much that users should all have instant access to all forums on the site, but rather a question of why ANYONE can have access to the teks, especially if we are not providing support for the content within those teks. It all seems very counter productive to me (or perhaps just counter intuitive at a minimum).

Going back to IH's metaphor of a tribe makes sense in this argument. Think of a tribe of indigenous people. The newest and youngest members of the tribe are not immediately given access to how to prepare and administer medicines. They are first taught the ways of the people, then they must prove their worthiness / dedication, then they are administered the medicine by an elder member. Once they have mastered working with the medicine, only then are they given the secrets to making the medicine and sharing it with others.
To me this model makes sense.

I'm really just puking a lot of thoughts out in electrons here, but it's some stuff I've thought about for quite some time now. I'm genuinely concerned about if we are doing the right thing here. I know in many ways we are, but as we've grown I really think a retrospective and possible reorganization of policy may need to be put into place. I'm certainly not challenging your intentions Traveler, as you know I have nothing but respect for you and what you've done for this community. I'm really just suggesting a policy reconsideration may be a wise first step.

I'm not expecting you to answer these questions. Just think about them. Of course, if you feel so inclined to answer them then I would be honored just as much!

All the best!
-idt

Just passing through after a late night around the fire here at the Homestead

just reading through everything again and again. I like where this has gone in the last few days.

dialogue on this topic is good, its important, its needed.. My own ideas and feelings have evolved allot thanks to the many educated responses to my first post. It is obvious some of our members have put some thought into this. Thank you.



g'nite

i like your ideas idtrvlr...but

i would have loved to be taught that way..but i just dont know ANYONE else that could have gotten me to the point i am except for myself..and without free and open information i wouldnt be here..

i would love to have an apprentice..but im so removed from most people..that i cant find anyone that has any inclination to learn...i HAVE taught people...but it happens so few and far between that i have had better success sitting in the chat walking people through tough parts of their extraction..

with the chat ANYONE can sign in and ask questions...i wish more people would realize that there is usually at least 3-4 people in there that have good experience with extractions

i believe that this information should be freely available to all...id never be who i am if it wasnt.

I think harm reduction is where it's at. "Kid shamen" seems to be the latest fashion these days, maybe it's taken over the getting drunk and screwing around phase that kids soon bore of??

With me, thoughts have come and gone in similarity to what you've been saying IH.

First and foremost I think the WIKI should be downloadable in it's entirety. That's a treasure-trove of information. That and the FAQ section..right there you have the heart of the nexus. I think that's important and should be available for DL. (only for solid status members though...not just anyone who comes here)

I'm in a similar boat to Jorkest in that I don't have contact with many people. I have less than a handful of "friends", and out of that handful I have only taught one of them who is my best friend and has been for many years. The rest I feel wouldn't take it seriously enough to personally make an endeavor. But the fact of me being able to just show ONE person and have him carry it on....well....i've done my job ina sense.

And with the "being more tedious" on membership vs. allowing things to continue as they are is a fine line imo, and that in itself it hard for me to say one way or another.

Right.............. Jorkest thanks for reminding me what got me to start this thread to begin with. Something about chat.

People probably do realize that there is help available in chat for their extractions. It seems to me, as of the past 6 months or so there are more and more people in chat and the majoritty of them are not seeking help from experienced members they are just lurking or just talking about about drug use or blasting off on DMT while in chat. It seems odd to me. That Set and setting.

I find the set and setting of smoking changa/dmt while on the chat to be completely against what we teach here? or not? I understand that not everyone is going to see things the way I do, maybe I am just being a grumpy old man or maybe I'm narrow minded. I just dont get lurking around on chat bragging about drug use and hanging out using hard core hallucinogens while on chat, or at least claiming to, and bragging about it. IMO Chat is not the place for that. To each his own, right?

Then there is the question of liability and responsibility regarding the info that is legitimately passed over chat to help folks with their extractions.. I get the wiki and I am all for having it open to the world. The cat is out of the bag, so lets provide the best available teks and info possible, Trav stated this well and I agree.

I get an erie feeling with the lurking in chat. Call me paranoid. IMO there is a fine line you cross betweeen provinding a data resource where someone can go there and get info they want and getting live chat support 24/7. Are we drawing more attention to ourselves because of how much extra help and info we give to anyone who says they are 18 and gets a membership?

I may be worried out of ignorance, but I think it wouldnt be hard for someone to lurk and figure out who key individuals are just by the online help they are providing. Its not hard to figure out who the chemists are. The reality is that LEO has prolly already done this? or not?

Am I worried about something that really is not an issue at all?



Jorkest I agree with this statement, but you gotta admit, The nexus isnt what it was when you started your apprenticeship. Things have changed dramatically since the early days, My memory serves me well here, I got allot of my extraction skills from you, I never spent one minute on chat, and I have ZERO chem experience. Getting high purity DMT is as simple as reading the wiki and following directions. Its as easy as making cookies or a cake.

Risk vs Benefit

I guess this is the part I dont understand. As time passes, I worry more and more about getting in trouble. I'm a grandfather now! I have a life and a career I value and love. Friends and family I dont want to ever lose.

I also care deeply for my brothers and sisters out there who are on the path. I want to help. I believe in what we are doing. I dont want to see us shut down or get in trouble because of our aproach.



I get the entire harm reduction thing, I support it, The Nexus needs it. I sincerely do. Some outsiders could look at harm reduction as very hypocritical. If its harmful and illegal then why are we doing it? Is Harm reduction just a CYA section of the nexus to make us look like we are more legit? We are clearly admitting that using this illegal substance may be harmful and yet we encourage the use.

Okay, I'm shot now.

I know I have taken this thread on a rollercoaster like course. I.ve just about got it all purged, lol.

Thanks for listening.

I understand that point, Ice House.

However, with the recent surge in Newbies, and the "cat out of the box", i guess the Nexus has no other option but to offer guidance for inexperienced voyagers. We don't want any sinking ships!

Hi Ice House,

Thank you for expanding on your points. One question: What do you suggest we do?

Personally, (and I have said this for two years now) I think chat should be either non-existent OR for established members only with strict rules. I feel members should prove themselves on the forum before being granted access to chat – only after contributing something of substance. I, too, have mixed feelings here.

On one hand, I am a hard-liner. I feel we at the Nexus are excessively 'lax' on rule enforcement. This site does not have the goal of making money and therefore we should strive for quality over quantity in membership. The repeat offenders who simply create new accounts and cause further disruption frustrate me. I wish the bar were raised beyond a few good posts -- even to the point of closing membership unless another established member can vouch.

On the other hand, we are striving for harm reduction. I feel the wiki, and maybe even chat, should be free and open to all with this goal in mind. My frustrations are primarily with the riff-raff on the forum and chat -- much like what you are saying here in this thread.

Thank you for bringing it up. I have had this churning in my head since you posted it and will have more comments soon.

-a1pha

i think were all in agreement. the wiki should remain public as should its ability to be downloaded without copy/pasting or saving each page individually. if its going to be public its not going to stop someone from downloading everything they want anyway. might as well make it easier on folks to archive such valuable information. unless its download interfers with our server speeds and connection, then my opinion is that its archival download be restricted to significant members.

what is contested (chat) is the direct support contributing to likely illegal activity AND the safety of those who know the extractions well enough to guide it. this needs reformation. one approach is to restrict access to chat, another is to enforce strict regulations on what is permitted to be said in chat (swim is not a defense).

that being said, i would not have been comfortable enough to attempt certain procedures had it not been for a few members guiding me in chat. as a result ive brought alot of attention to entheogens in my area, for better or worse...
i was younger and reckless, i gave little thought to my actions, unlike now. smoking dmt became a social phenomenon. friends heard about this fantastic thing and they were compelled to see for themselves, attracting their friends and so on. within a week i was so worried about this growing mass of publicity around spice that i moved several hundred miles away... the town it happened in is greatly affected by it, a year later there was even "blast off to happiness" word art on the windows of the icecream parlor with a frog sitting lotus pose in outterspace (earth behind him)...

i dont think the focus needs to be remaining secretive about the medicines as it does remaining legitimate about information regarding the medicines. what i mean by this is removing the instructional aspect to teks and limited communications to labratory process without the inclination that they may be used to perform illegal activity. as far as my legal knowledge goes, if this is as far as the instruction goes we would be safe from persecution given that the knowledge of what the information is used for would be negligable. however we are way beyond that point...

in conclusion: chat needs to be moderated through strict regulations or restricted to significant members to preserve our safety

This is the issue i think. I've noticed some of the recent posters (not you, mew), seem to be very young and generally quite inexperienced in life. I even think a bit too young to be delving into stuff like this. They seem to be in a rush, spured on my their friends. This is what i find a concern. I think they are too immature for stuff like this.

Jorkest - First I must say that it warms my heart to be exchanging ideas with you on here again.
Now, down to business: I may have not been entirely clear in my post. My reference to a "tribe" is not one of a literal group of people as a community in the same geographic location. I wasn't referring to Nexians and their other nexus family (or tibe). My reference to "the tribe" is a metaphor for the Nexus itself, and how the Nexus should or could be structured for learning. If people feel that the need remains to lock certain things down, then a tribal approach should be taken teaching new members.

My true feeling (at this point, since the cat is outta the bag) is that nothing should be locked down. This follows the same pattern that you and I grew up with on this forum. As new members we had full access to the knowledge of the elder members, and this allowed us to be successful and safe in our learning and growth. We flourished with this approach. Every tek and every answer was within a few keyboard stoaks, and a couple of IM

I guess I'm saying that IF we are going to lock down certain parts of the Nexus, then we need to lock down everything, so that new members aren't getting disintegrated bits of information, and have little to no trusted resources for answers. With that said, I'm all for opening up the Nexus, but I think we need to open up EVERYTHING. At the risk of sounding like an old bigot, set in his ways, I think the old model of giving everyone access to everything was the best approach for disseminating quick and accurate information.
[/quote]

There has been some great thoughts on this thread. thank you Mr. Icehouse for starting this diolouge.
I agree idtrvlr since the cats out of the bag there isnt much we can do about it now. As previously discussed i feel that the best way to go rouge is for many people to start planting Phalaris grass everywhere in their homeland. Mhrb will soon be hard to get and this grass and the teks being worked on my people like Jaime and Jorkest are the future of dmt extracting.

With Phalaris we can have an un ending supply of dmt that wont need to come across borders nor be shipped. It can grow just about anywhere. I plan on ordering seeds of the q1 strain and growing them to collect their seeds to be spread across this land of ours.

Lets Grow Rouge while we go rouge!

1.) Like I stated before, if we remove the information on the Wiki, people will find it elsewhere and the chances are high that they will find a version that is worse as what we have on the Wiki. If people come to the wiki and have questions they can enter the forum and just ask their questions, people can ask about any question in the different welcome area parts. Furthermore, on the wiki we have a very nice FAQ that is hard to miss as well as other good advises and information.

It's all about giving them hooks to go further. If people choose not to use these hooks then that is unfortunate, but I think that if we don't have the information publicly available on the wiki these kind of people will find their teks elsewhere anyway. It is the people that use those hooks that we can bring in and help/educate further. It's like a big sign that states: "TO LEARN MORE, GO THIS WAY ->", people can follow that sign or not, we try to make it as juice as possible to bring in the seeking people.


2.) I think there is a misunderstanding here. New members can ask about anything in the welcome area, we have several subfora in there where they ask the appropriate questions. So they can ask their questions there and they will be helped. Just check the many help threads that we have there.

You can see the welcome area as the learning and questioning part, and the area outside the welcome area to expand on ideas/information/attitude/set and setting and coin new ones.


And then to the chat:

What not all people might know is that in the Chat we have three rooms. Of these three rooms only one is visible for new members (called 'welcome area' and the other two are for full members only.

Jorkest already points out what the strength of this room is: we can help new members with their many first time questions like those about extractions. It is also a perfect place to help people who are in need for an urgent response (think medical wise).

And about the people who for example take changa while in the chat: that is beyond me too. I guess to each their own, it is not for me but maybe other people need that 'grounding' effect to get the most out of their journey's? It might help with anxiety, maybe we should ask them why they do that, if it helps and if they tried it without the chat. In any way, I don't think that we should go further as the advising role in this.



I see this the same way as things like sky diving. Sky diving can be amazing but also dangerous and still people do it every day. So we admit that there are people who like sky diving and that it involves risks. We then go further and tell people about those risks and help them to reduce those risks as much as possible.

Of course not all will absorb that advice and accidents might happen. Also other people will gratefully accept the advice, use it as much as possible and choose to go one bit further, like jumping from buildings or cliffs, again that is their own choice and right.

People are people and will always go their own way and push the limit, if we want it or not, it's human nature. What we do here on the DMT-Nexus is giving them as much advice and help as possible in the hope that they will use is. But we have to remember that in the end it is the people who will accept it or not, and that is beyond our power.


I hope this clarifies things a bit more.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

There are more as 30.000 medical labs in the USA alone, and there are even more non-medical labs, remember that this is the USA alone. Also with the Encrypted connection, IP's and e-mail addresses that are encrypted offsite (meaning there is not way to decrypt it if you grab the DMT-Nexus server, the key to decrypt is just not on that machine) it will be REALLY hard to track someone down.

You have to ask yourself if you think that it is worth, money- and time-wise, to track down a person who gives advice on a drug related forum. What would be the reason to put in so much time and effort, to only catch one person of which it is highly debatable if you can even prosecute this person.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

Ice House, i love you too man, and i now understand you better...

There are two points I want to adress:

Thesis: Banning mimosa is the best thing that could happen!

Well, I believe it could foster some motivation looking for alternatives in some individuals who do not have lifestime stacks of mimosa. But many mid profile users propably do have enough mimosa for years to come. And those who are on the top of the game are doing research anyways just because they feeling the desire to advance DMT supply not to satisfy selfish needs.

Then, banning mimosa would just make it harder and more risky to access it. Would dealers still smuggle or buy mimosa through various channels if there is not simulataneous worldwide ban? YES! This would make BUYING DMT suddenly verrry attractive to those who need to be spoonfed, are lazy....but would try a DMT extraction (to save money for instance) if they were guided. MHRB Bann = raise in DMT dealers.

Thesis: Limit access to Information (Forum, Wiki) to weed out non-comitted individuals

First of all, DMT extraction teks are there and will be there even without the nexus. But it often happens that someone comes here to discuss a weird outdated tek he found on the internet, or discusses potentially dangerous smoking techniques, adapted from consumers of very harmful drugs (tinfoil smoking technique for instance). SO, if we don't educate, interested people will get their "education" ELSEWHERE, and i can guarantee you: This will lead to much, much pain.....

The second point is: Restriction to the forum is not restriction to pure information. The wiki already provides enough of that. But what people need is emotional support. You can put out information on how to make and consume the most earth shattering substance on this planet and then REFUSE to help those who were caught by surprise and need psychological, emotional support....This would make us no better than STREET LEVEL DEALERS.

The Nexus has grown into the public face of DMT it would be careless to change that! Because there are no good alternatives.

If you want to go more underground, you need to grow more underground structures.

SSL isn't all that secure, its been broken numerous times recently. Also what makes you think email addresses are stored offline? I can click 'my profile' and it shows me my e-mail, that would lead me to believe that my email is indeed stored on the server and is obviously decrypt-able. I'd suggest not using an email address thats connected with anything else.

Hopefully they simply don't keep logs of access, no need to encrypt them, just don't have them to start with.