There has been a thread about anti-americanism before. I know that some people just feel the way they feel about america and some clever arguments are not going to change all of that. I also do not want to defend the american foreign policy. But there´s only one argument that i think deserves to be heard: 'do you think that ANY other nation would do any better, when it would be as powerfull?'. It´s easy to be very critical about american foreign policy, but has there ever been an empire that did not abuse it´s powerfull position? The romans, the macedonians, the mongols, the greeks, ottomans, the persians, the spanish, the british, the dutch, the prussians, russians, french, han-chinese, portugese, austrians, egyptians and even the belgians...all of them have a very dark colonial history.

This is ofcourse no excuse for all the unjust expeditionary wars. But if you´re not an american yourself: do you think that your country would do any better, when it would be thát powerfull?

The chinese for instance, are slowly building a fleet of aircraftcarriers. You don´t need aircraftcarriers if you don´t have the intention of starting expeditionary wars, some time in the future. Aircraftcarriers are only needed if you want to be able to take your airforce to all corners of the world. The chinese clearly have imperialist aspirations and are waiting for the moment that they´ll be able to dwarf america as a military and economical power. Birma already is factually a chinese dependency, and there are many japanese, russian and vietnamese territories that the chinese consider to be theirs, just like taiwan. Taiwan itself is, like turkey and many other nations, a sort of miniature version of america in the sense that the current population has at some point in time stolen the land from it´s original population and then consequently forbidden any manifestation of the original culture, like even speaking the local language.

So my point is: can america be blamed for it´s imperialist tendency´s? ofcourse it can. Does that mean that americans are somehow greedier, meaner or more agressive than others? i think that all people who cultivate a deep hate against americans are flattering themselves by answering that last question with a yes.

I dont like american policy, I dont like american laws and I dont like the american government. I dont like their military actions and I dont like the way I have been treated when trying to enter that country. I have lived my whole life basically on the canada/US border and I have been treated like nothing more than a useless piece of sh*t on occasions when crossing into the US and because of that and a few other reasons I have not been there in 5 years or so. I once had a patroll officer make me ask him personally with the word "please" if I could enter "his" country(seriously). The people there in general are just like any other people and I would like to travel across the border again because some of my fav surf spots are just across the line but with the way things have been I wont be doing so atm.

That said I have been treated in a similar crappy way before by canadian border patroll on 2 occasions..I also dont like canadian policy, though in reality canada does have a more humane foreign policy than the US..I dont like many things about Canada, the US, or westernized society in general.

I dont care to debate over what other countries would do if they were as large as the US..that is sort of missing the point. The point is that it is backwards the way in which so many governments work and no ammount of comparison or rationalizing makes it any better.

I am a citizen of earth..not canada..not N.America.

I try to always separate the governments of nations from the citizens. I despise my government, its policy's and its greed but I love my country, the land, the people.

One thing I noticed early on while traveling is that all governments are fooked. Some more than other's and there is no utopia imo. I heard more than enough people bash america in my time abroad and i never took offense but did interject when the bashing turned onto the american people. Thats not fair. We are in a hard position of a failed system and the actions of our government doesn't reflect the hearts of over half the population.

To be fair Jaime Ive been treated like a piece of shit by every modern power nation's border Ive crossed. Canada was one of the worst only to be upstaged by England. Being fully sleeved with tattoos and dreadlocks I get treated like a criminal and was even detained in London for no reason they could give me other than they assumed I didnt have enough money to stay in their country for a month. Border agents are trained to be hard ass's. Its just how they do things. I dont like it but I know how to play the game.

There isn't one single government that I know of on this planet who I agree with. If this was the decider in if I liked a country and its people, I wouldn't be very popular at party's.

There's just way too much money involved in American politics so its always going to be that much more manipulated by those who want a slice.

On the subject of government, I dislike Israel more, but its more acceptable to talk negatively about Northern Americans and people always like to put people beneath them in some way. My brother's in a long term relationship with a German girl who seems to divide everything into us and them, particularly when elevating her nation above America. Truth is she seems to know very little about the place and assumes all their school teachers a from the south and all their parents overfeed them.

The funny thing is she fits the negative German stereotype perfectly, being raised far out in the country and living with her grandparents. This girl would put certain people in camps.

Hey, come to vancouver and you will find easily just as many of not more snobby a-holes than you do across the line..

People always talk about how friendly people are here..but this city is full of rich superficial people..

At the same time I have met many awesome americans..I dated an american years back and hell I am engaged to an american right now..I have family in the US..

I only once came across people in the US at some hotel who like went out of their way to go on about how much better the US is than any other country(esp canada )..there are people like that all over..it is the mindset and you see it in super religious gungho freaks as well. Does not matter if it is about the country they live in , the god they worship or the size of their bank account..these people exist all over the globe.

Thank you brother, for that wonderful post. You and I had a discussion over the weekend about this very subject.

I'm no Nationalist.

I love the American people as a whole.

When its RALLY TIME no nation stands united like America does.

That said........ I am so embarassed by our government.

Thanks for the kind words poly.

Its a shame, the damage is done and there is no way to fix it short of revolution.

The reason why i wanted to make this point nevertheless, is that i very recently have said some very harsh things about america.

One of the things i have said, is that when pictures of abu ghraib went public, that didn´t realy affect the american public opinion, and that if it wasn´t for AMERICAN casualties, the majority of americans would still support the war in iraq. George W Bush got re-elected, two years after the invasion in iraq had started. As long as it´s only foreigners who get killed because of american bombs, i don´t think most americans would mind another war. I don´t even think that most americans would tolerate any criticism towards their country´s many expeditionary wars, if there wouldn´t have been so many american casualties. I´ve heard americans say that they wanted to have france and germany nuked because those countries disagreed with the war in iraq. Initially, when pictures like the ones taken in abu ghraib, went public, the response of the average american citizen would have been something like 'go, go, go USA!!'. I think we all know that gloatfull, triumphalistic big, bad bully.

Those are very harsh things to say. And i won´t take any of it back. I despise that 'we can do anything we want' attitude.

But it would be unfair to pretend that this is all typically american behaviour. To pretend that my country or any other nation would be any better. It would just be unfair.

Many people are anti-american. But america doesn´t do things that other nations don´t do as well. And typically, when you would say something about that, people from those nations all point their fingers at america, saying 'but they´re much worse than we are'. But that is only because of the relative size and power of america.

Especially in central and south america, people like to point their fingers at the USA and pretend that everything that´s wrong in the world is caused by americans. Like they don´t have a share in all the corruption, violence and crime themselves.

That´s pure hypocrisy in my opinion. Most people around the world who´re not americans themselves, know more about american atrocities than about the war-crimes commited by their own country.

Today, a dutch newspaper published pictures of dutch soldiers committing a mass-murder in indonesia. I know for a fact that most dutch people have never known about those things. Ofcourse they do know about vietnam, iraq, etc. Ofcourse they don´t mind critisising america for what it has done. But they don´t even know about the war crimes commited by their own country....because they don´t want to know.

from that perspective, i think anti-americanism is just 'cheap'. And especially if people don´t want to hear about their own country´s misbehaviour, i think those people are not in any way different from the americans they critisize.

Quoted from several people (Mark Twain, and Thomas Jefferson are just two)
"Love your country always, love your government when they deserve it."

America is founded on very strong and excellent principles. Hating a country because of a border patrolman that is high on his power (I will ask you ONE more time, do you have ANY fruit in the car!!!!), or because of a politician, or even political system is a very simplistic way of looking at the world.

Oh well at least when they'll get poorer they'll(probably) start saving on the military abroad...

I think it's all very well blaming the government for americas downfalls but the way i see it it's those lunatic supporters who get behind the liberals or conservatives in a truly weird almost over the top religious manner. Obama is worshipped by many in america, it reminds me of china or something. When the nazi's started world war 2 it wasn't just the government that was to blame it was the millions of germans who got behind them and caused the whole thing. Basically i'm saying america and its people are to blame for the way their country operates.

I love the american people but when it comes to certain things they really do look like morons to the rest of the world. No offence intended.

I sure am not into disparaging my own country's people, but governments are, to some extent, reflections of the populaces they serve. Institutions can gain minds of their own certainly, but every citizen of the US shares in the blame for its disgraceful policies and systems. We also share the responsibility to change them.

Every last one?!

I don't really buy that.

^^This may be true, but its also the case that China, thus far, is the only Permanent Member of the UN Security Council which doesn't have an aircraft carrier fleet.The rights and wrongs of the UN, Security Council etc can be debated as much as one would like, but the issue of parity (or if not parity, trying ones damndest not to be weaker than ones contemporaries) is of importance to all nations, IMHO.

I think the pictures a little more complicated than the quote above suggests.

Genocide and slavery?

It's my opinion not fact so you don't have to buy it.

Peace

This is the most important truth:



thanks for saying this I absolutely agree and wish that one day all people will feel the same way and the whole world will be one big country for all of us including animals and plants.

I say no more blooming borders around us.

I guess I just believe that the average joe has an element of helplessness against the powers in which the family man can't really go on a rampant change mission and expect to come out smiling.

To say that every American is responsible for what America is/does/etc is little more than victim blaming at the macrocosmic scale. Look at American policies and the statistics they produce and then explain how the innumerable incarcerated, poor and marginalized people of the US have any agency vis a vis US policy, either national or foreign.

Lest you forget, the US government (and its agents) has played a major role in domestic political assassinations...so we see that even when people attempt to correct the misguided course of the US, they are actively resisted (and incarcerated and/or killed) by those in power.

Or yeah...

what he said