Quite a community you have here! I came to this place to hopefully be able to shed light on a super-bizarre experience I had. (As a new member I couldn't post in the DMT Experiences sub-forum.)

Searching the forum I see that only a few people have had this kind of dark trip. From what I've read so far, I think this thread: Dark freaky experience with Changa... by AluminumFoilRobots comes closest to what I experienced. It was a very dark, quite sinister, highly confusing trip in my garden in a bright sunny day.

My experiences had always been with very pure white DMT, but I foolishly put my spice in a 000 gelcap (which makes it easier to refill the GVG), allowing it to oxidize and gradually turn yellow-orange in color. I noticed that the trips became less intense and the visuals "dirtier" or less geometric over time. Eventually, lower doses would do nothing at all, and only higher doses would result in mild visuals. I was puzzled but also annoyed, so I carelessly filled the GVG with a massive dose (guesstimated at 80-130mg) which resulted in this ultra-bizarre dark trip.

So I took 2 enormous tokes (as mentioned, from a GVG loaded with a massive dose of formerly pure-white spice). After the 2nd toke I realized something was wrong, so (thankfully) I had the sense to not go for the 3rd toke. I sat down and started feeling somewhat dumb/slow/retarded, but no visuals were present... then suddenly the visual field instantaneously turned into this sinister leaf-patterned world of dark purple patterns collapsing/folding upon themselves. The scariest part was when I walked a few meters to look at the Sun... it wasn't there as far as my eyes could see. No brightness at all, just the same scary dark world collapsing upon itself in an infinite loop.

The strangest thing, however, was not the dark motifs or the content of the trip itself. The strangeness began before the trip; in fact it totally felt like the trip never even started! It felt inactive like with lower doses.





This is exactly what happened to me as well. I feel that anyone who hasn't experienced exactly the above isn't talking about the same thing as AluminumFoilRobots and I. It's so fundamentally different from the normal white-DMT experience. The un-DMT-ness of the experience is what made it so outstandingly weird. There was no characteristic "launch" at all, I didn't feel anything at the beginning. Usually there's a very distinctive "magical enchantment" (a strong sense of anesthesia) along with quick and extreme CNS arousal.

AluminumFoilRobots doesn't mention this, but for me the dark trip also came with a partial loss of cognitive function, feeling confused and dumb. This was part of the very strong sense that "something isn't right", and I mean "very strong" in a DMT sense of "very strong"!

I flushed the rest of my spice, believing that what I had was no longer DMT, but instead traces of DMT with something else, whether oxidized/damaged DMT, solvent, or other alkaloids. This was the first non-white DMT I had ever had a high dose of. I was not aware of this:



So that sheds doubt on my theory that my dark trip was a result of degraded/oxidized DMT.

The FAQ also says this:



That fits my situation, but I feel it isn't enough to explain it. I can't let go of the idea that the yellow/orange tint of my spice was the primary cause, as all indications and abnormal occurrences seemed to point that way.

Your thoughts?

I have been there and know what exactly you mean. I usually just sit there on the edge of my bed (my launch pad) and hang my head down kinda like a dumbass wondering what's going on. For me when I proceeded through to high dosage (I usually just load my machine and take the biggest hits I can while I'm still here, so no mg value) I noticed the edges of my vision, particularly the sides, would fade to dark and that's when things would get weird. The universal solid (everywhere where there is "empty" space) began folding in on it self in really peculiar ways, but I noticed these silhouettes appearing here and there at times. These silhouette black shadow humanoidish(really bad example but more humanoid than canine or whatever) beings were traveling through these things. I looked at my own skin and saw it very much resembled those of these beings, but much more bulky like I had stronger roots and they could fly through the ether. Then I noticed my fingers were emulating the motions of this weird world and trying to remember this ability for later was used for the rest of the trip.

On another time, halfway into the launch, I noticed the same dimming of the edges of my physical vision and these entities were sort of dancing around me. One got really close to me while I was focused on finishing my hit from the machine and made me not really nervous but sort of annoyed and he was just too close. I noticed he was just really focused on me and my task at hand (vaping) and had a sort of curious energy to it. Kinda like I just slipped into his realm with all my physical qualities and tools intact. I asked for him to get back and he's left and rarely ever comes by again. I tried not to be mean, but I was getting uncomfortable with him so close.

These experiences are definitely different than the average and I've noticed I get those type of experiences more often from a high frequency of dosage. There's a point where you can just keep dosing and it just keeps things at that weird level, but as I do feel sort of stupid and confused with my head hung down and an expression like "uh.." I get pretty worn out from it. I usually just use that as my signal to wait for another day.

It's amazing all the different headspaces we can all inhabit and that we are able to share some of the most novel ones here with others that can generate a more accurate understanding based on experience

Maybe these experiences could be caused by degraded spice, but I believe there is a tek somewhere to revert that back to nn-dmt. Also, instead of flushing next time lol you can try a re crystallization or a wash and see how that turns out?

My trip was so intense and so "wrong" that I took it as a signal to wait for at least 1 month, and so I am doing. I even stopped MJ.

I have dosed up to 5 times in one night (each 1 hour apart) with pure-white spice and never had any dark trips; the trips are merely weaker (lower peak intensity and lower body high). For me, after around 3 times the trips become of a more delirious nature, and visuals become less organized, less symmetrical, more static, less enjoyable. This kind of low-energy trip is not at all like my dark trip though.

The dark leaf-like patterns folding upon themselves over and over was very disturbing and annoying. I could hardly see anything other than this looping folding animation from the sides. I'd say that was the main peculiarity that made my trip so un-enjoyable and "wrong".

Thanks for your input.

Hey man sorry I didn't see this until now!

I am still nowhere near completely understanding what these dark experiences are really about... I have come to believe that there is a "dark" hyperspace, the other side of the coin. This is perhaps where bad witches get their power, perhaps they make deals with the entities or forces over there for power.

For a month or two, since the experience that you refer to, these type experiences were probably the only side of DMT that I could experience. There was something that kept shunting me towards this "dark" hyperspace. I never got around to making a thread about this, which I honestly have to do. I feel like this is a really under-discussed but real part of the DMT-universe... not everyone gets this apparently but I see these reports pop up from time to time.
I also feel as though the "shadowy" entities are denizens of that part of hyperspace... I actually made a thread about an experience with those guys...

However, the day after the above experience, something in me told me that I was going to have to work though this, and told me that it was possible to overcome! Well, after a few daylight changa experiences which turned out OK, I had the gall to go in with freebase. Something about the almost gung-ho attitude that *I-don't-know-what* imparted on me let me get out of there! It was almost like my own fear about these dark experiences was inviting them... that freebase experience was one of those once-in-a-while pure FUN DMT experiences and it was so relieving to just be allowed back in to hyperspace. And that is really what it seemed like, that the gates were opened for me again...

I really think that this has to do with too much DMT too often. My initial dark experience came after like 5 days of consecutive changa sessions, multiple sessions a day. I will never use it this much again. I have pondered that it could be some form of "tolerance" to DMT. Because while DMT doesn't cause a traditional tolerance like LSD, probably due to the short amount of time it occupies the receptor-site, it does seem to cause these sorts of experiences... I read from someone on here that DMT is actively drawn into the cell and exerts influence for at least a week, so perhaps these experiences stem from too much residual DMT. But I couldn't say, as I have heard from one friend that his FIRST DMT experience was like this so that's weird!

I think the month break will certainly help... if it's any consolation after being "let back in" I have had nothing but good experiences. Check out "Folding Rooms" and the rest of the hyperspace lexicon.

Hopefully any of that was helpful. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

Was that with the same batch as the previous one?

After a little more experimenting, I think my original idea was correct, that oxidized DMT produces the dark trip, and pure DMT produces the normal trip (colorful, geometrical hallucinations).

Further extrapolating on that idea, I'm guessing that when the spice contains a combination of both, it produces what is often called a Jungle DMT trip.

To quote the FAQ again:


In a very hot summer, if you store it at room temperature, DMT degrades very quickly, all molecules seemingly becoming N-Oxide in a matter of weeks. For me, oxidized DMT "doesn't work", it doesn't produce even 1/100th of what pure DMT does. Except (apparently) at the breaktrough dose, when the visual field suddenly changes to these dark, sinister, loopy hallucinations.